Preview Changes vs Melbourne

[rip it up]

You weren't alone on Cloke.

Having said that he can maybe play a role. At worst he can maybe provide some leadership to our raw KPs in the twos. He's on minimum chips and he offers more value than someone like Hamilton.

Exactly my thoughts. I am not willing to put a line through him at all. The way we go forward is horrible and would be near on impossible for an Key Forward to predict the play.
That said I do think Cloke offers leadership to guys like Boyd and Redpath. Both these guys are young forwards, having a guy like Cloke provides them intel on leading patterns etc. I recall Moore rating him as a leader and teacher of the forward trade.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Pretty funny how the argument last year was that the Pies ball movement was bad, and it was tough for all their forwards, and Cloke would improve with our better ball movement. It's funny how that ball movement is now considered bad given that Cloke isn't playing well, and that same argument is used, yet it's contradictory. At what point do we say it isn't "ball movement" one way or another, and it's just Cloke not being a very good player?

 

[olimauldon]

Bit off topic but don't know where else to post this...However, I just re-watched round 1 of last year against Fremantle and honestly everyone should re-watch it, our style and endeavour at the footy is exactly how we should be striving to play every week. I know that Freo were no good last year and the game was 18 months ago but our team is pretty much the same and it is just sublime to watch. That day our attack was second to none, our ball movement and efficiency by foot, particularly when going inside 50 and on the rebound was just elite. Stringer was leading up the ground to the footy as well as providing an option in the 50, ending up kicking 5. Every aspect of our game was top notch, overlap running, decision making, interceptions, contested ball etc. I recommend everyone to watch it, this is how we should treating the weaker teams, completing demolishing them from start to finish. Seriously has looked like a different team this year after watching this and its disappointing.

 

[Yojimbo]

Bit off topic but don't know where else to post this...However, I just re-watched round 1 of last year against Fremantle and honestly everyone should re-watch it, our style and endeavour at the footy is exactly how we should be striving to play every week. I know that Freo were no good last year and the game was 18 months ago but our team is pretty much the same and it is just sublime to watch. That day our attack was second to none, our ball movement and efficiency by foot, particularly when going inside 50 and on the rebound was just elite. Stringer was leading up the ground to the footy as well as providing an option in the 50, ending up kicking 5. Every aspect of our game was top notch, overlap running, decision making, interceptions, contested ball etc. I recommend everyone to watch it, this is how we should treating the weaker teams, completing demolishing them from start to finish. Seriously has looked like a different team this year after watching this and its disappointing.

1- Fremantle won how many games last year?

2- We had not climbed Everest (Won the flag for the simple folks).

3- The third man up rule was not in place and we could focus tap
the stoppage clearances which made us more efficient with our
wave running.

4- Travis Cloke played for Collingwood. (This is not relevant at all ).

 

[threenewpadlocks]

1- Fremantle won how many games last year?

2- We had not climbed Everest (Won the flag for the simple folks).

3- The third man up rule was not in place and we could focus tap
the stoppage clearances which made us more efficient with our
wave running.

4- Travis Cloke played for Collingwood. (This is not relevant at all ).

We got Freo when they were still alright, like, for example, before Fyfe broke his leg. It's not really the same comparison.

 

[Yojimbo]

We got Freo when they were still alright, like, for example, before Fyfe broke his leg. It's not really the same comparison.

I was just saying it is mental rather than physical at the moment
and referring back to before the premiership is made null and void
by the fact that we won the flag and the AFL changed certain
rules that we were exploiting to the max.

 

[Del165892]

You just get the feeling that we might go into this game with a new approach. New tactics. Renewed aggression. Violence. Speed. Momentum...

...entum...

...entum...

 

[Golden_6]

Pretty funny how the argument last year was that the Pies ball movement was bad, and it was tough for all their forwards, and Cloke would improve with our better ball movement. It's funny how that ball movement is now considered bad given that Cloke isn't playing well, and that same argument is used, yet it's contradictory. At what point do we say it isn't "ball movement" one way or another, and it's just Cloke not being a very good player?

Well to be fair I believe both the Pies and our ball movement is terrible. We just don't have enough good kicks through the team.

 

[olimauldon]

1- Fremantle won how many games last year?

2- We had not climbed Everest (Won the flag for the simple folks).

3- The third man up rule was not in place and we could focus tap
the stoppage clearances which made us more efficient with our
wave running.

4- Travis Cloke played for Collingwood. (This is not relevant at all ).

Dunno if you read the whole post or not but I mentioned that that is how we should be going about when playing the lesser teams, slicing them up and putting the foot down. None of this crap we've seen like against Brisbane where we had to come from 40 points down.

 

[schmuttt]

I'd be stunned if you guys don't come out breathing fire this week, think you'll beat us reasonably easily.

 

[dogwatch]

Pretty funny how the argument last year was that the Pies ball movement was bad, and it was tough for all their forwards, and Cloke would improve with our better ball movement. It's funny how that ball movement is now considered bad given that Cloke isn't playing well, and that same argument is used, yet it's contradictory. At what point do we say it isn't "ball movement" one way or another, and it's just Cloke not being a very good player?

Not buying into the main Cloke argument but would like to point out that our midfield play/ball movement doesn't look anything like the midfield play we had last year. That seems to be the dominant narrative across several threads on this board (justifiably) and would surely mean that the premise on which we got Cloke (i.e. that he would play better with our superior midfield/ball movement) is no longer valid?

That said, the Cloke experiment may well be a bust. We'll have to wait and see whether Bevo can work some magic with him but I'd say he's got bigger problems than that to worry about right now.

 

[The Original Swooper]

I remember pointing out last season that our style was not a maintainable game plan. Injuries are one result from such a physical game but I'm more concerned regarding the psychology. If you have given your absolute hardest effort week in week out over 6 months to win the ultimate prize, it's very difficult to expect all players to manifest that manic attack again following the success. It wears you out both physically and mentally. I think that's why we have seen Bevo tinkering with game plan. Early season we were standing off from the hectic clearance scrums, preferring to tackle the oppo once they had the ball. I think it also explains ( effort required) why some players (Libba being the main culprit) can't seem to get back to form because they gave it all last year and just aren't ready mentally or physically to do it again. Mind you, if we get into the finals I'd never write off that enthusiasm returning. Folks say you can't flick a switch. Tell me how Geelong went from 40 tackles one week to 130 the following. They decided to "bring it".

 

[Pugz89]

Bit off topic but don't know where else to post this...However, I just re-watched round 1 of last year against Fremantle and honestly everyone should re-watch it, our style and endeavour at the footy is exactly how we should be striving to play every week. I know that Freo were no good last year and the game was 18 months ago but our team is pretty much the same and it is just sublime to watch. That day our attack was second to none, our ball movement and efficiency by foot, particularly when going inside 50 and on the rebound was just elite. Stringer was leading up the ground to the footy as well as providing an option in the 50, ending up kicking 5. Every aspect of our game was top notch, overlap running, decision making, interceptions, contested ball etc. I recommend everyone to watch it, this is how we should treating the weaker teams, completing demolishing them from start to finish. Seriously has looked like a different team this year after watching this and its disappointing.

One of my favs to rewatch on IQ.

 

[SCRAY72]

I'd be stunned if you guys don't come out breathing fire this week, think you'll beat us reasonably easily.

You guys beat Adelaide away in a canter, that is better form than anything we have dished up this season.
Anybody's game.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

I remember pointing out last season that our style was not a maintainable game plan. Injuries are one result from such a physical game but I'm more concerned regarding the psychology. If you have given your absolute hardest effort week in week out over 6 months to win the ultimate prize, it's very difficult to expect all players to manifest that manic attack again following the success. It wears you out both physically and mentally. I think that's why we have seen Bevo tinkering with game plan. Early season we were standing off from the hectic clearance scrums, preferring to tackle the oppo once they had the ball. I think it also explains ( effort required) why some players (Libba being the main culprit) can't seem to get back to form because they gave it all last year and just aren't ready mentally or physically to do it again. Mind you, if we get into the finals I'd never write off that enthusiasm returning. Folks say you can't flick a switch. Tell me how Geelong went from 40 tackles one week to 130 the following. They decided to "bring it".

I have wondered if Bevo is willing to just stay in touch with the 8 with an 'easier' game style before flicking to the intense desperation style of play late in the season. But seems a bit of a stretch and would take huge balls, but he's shown that often enough.

 

[The Original Swooper]

I have wondered if Bevo is willing to just stay in touch with the 8 with an 'easier' game style before flicking to the intense desperation style of play late in the season. But seems a bit of a stretch and would take huge balls, but he's shown that often enough.

I've thought the same. Bevo does have balls. It also develops a well practiced Plan B if the A game goes awry.

 

[Ozil]

I'd be stunned if you guys don't come out breathing fire this week, think you'll beat us reasonably easily.

Agree on point a, disagree on point b.

We don't beat anybody easily.

 

[schmuttt]

Agree on point a, disagree on point b.

We don't beat anybody easily.

We do the same thing I get so stressed watching our games

 

[Dog Rising]

I'd be stunned if you guys don't come out breathing fire this week, think you'll beat us reasonably easily.

We've been patiently waiting all season for something that resembles fire. If last year's theme was lit....this one is quickly becoming ash.
I just hope we bring some spirit.

 

[Yojimbo]

Dunno if you read the whole post or not but I mentioned that that is how we should be going about when playing the lesser teams, slicing them up and putting the foot down. None of this crap we've seen like against Brisbane where we had to come from 40 points down.

It's hard to slice teams up if they know what is coming and the
Western Bulldogs were possibly the most analysed team last
year. Our form in the first three rounds last year was with the
twin terrors off half back Murphy/Johannisen the only time
for the year we had that luxury after round 3 our game style
morphed through necessity and injury. The whole concept of
lesser teams is now a weekly concept with home and away
form swinging wildly and proving impossible to predict. Our
bus needs fewer passengers, but our belief still has us in a
position of relevance even if our opponents seem to believe
more than we do.

 

[MKS70]

Maybe a few good players from VFL should come in to the team. I am not liking the style of play at the moment. It is not working. The cruel blind kicks inside the 50 and the turnovers are not good.

 

[Astro_]

I have wondered if Bevo is willing to just stay in touch with the 8 with an 'easier' game style before flicking to the intense desperation style of play late in the season. But seems a bit of a stretch and would take huge balls, but he's shown that often enough.

If you listen to Bevo's press conference after last week's game he did mention bringing the manic game style back even at the risk of injury.

I'm expecting us to come out breathing fire this week. Look out Demons

 

[olimauldon]

If you listen to Bevo's press conference after last week's game he did mention bringing the manic game style back even at the risk of injury.

I'm expecting us to come out breathing fire this week. Look out Demons

Hope we do bring back that game style, easily the most entertaining and can really slice teams up if perfected. If we get injuries I'll be disappointed but that's footy, and we've proven last year we have depth. Knock wood.

 

[FROGGR]

UNE 14 2017 - 2:23PM
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Melbourne Demons set to target Western Bulldog Jason Johannisen

• Jon Pierik
  
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Melbourne will look to the blueprint adopted by Sydney in a bid to physically unsettle dasher Jason Johannisen when they face the Western Bulldogs on Sunday.

Johannisen, the Norm Smith medallist in last year's grand final, was held to only nine touches and 170 metres gained against the Swans in the Dogs' 46-point loss at the SCG before their mid-season break. It was arguably the Dogs' worst defeat in the Luke Beveridge era.

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Jason Johannisen was targeted before the opening bounce against the Swans. Photo: Getty Images
Johannisen was targeted before the opening bounce when roughed up by several Swans, including Dan Hannebery, and was then unable to generate his customary run from defence by a blanketing George Hewitt.

As the Demons look to continue their surge up the ladder, coach Simon Goodwin said on Wednesday he would delve into John Longmire's tactics.

"It was certainly interesting. They took away a key running player in their [Bulldogs] game. It's something that we, obviously, will look at. He is a quality player," Goodwin said.


"He gets a lot of metres gained each week. He is someone that, obviously, will be clear in our planning."

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Johannisen is averaging 23.8 disposals a game and had enjoyed 29, including 22 uncontested, a week earlier in a win over St Kilda.

Goodwin, who was tagged in his heyday with the Adelaide Crows, said not all players enjoyed being hunted.

"Some players handle it extremely well. Other players take a bit of time to come to grips with it. Certainly, the tagger seems to be back in vogue, whether it's in the midfield or whether it's a half-back flanker. It's a case-by-case scenario," he said.

Such was Johannisen's performance against the Swans that Paul Roos, the former Sydney and Melbourne coach, said he was not worth $800,000 a year. Johannisen is off contract, with the Dogs unwilling to budge on more than $600,000 a season.

The Demons expect the Bulldogs to rebound with a vengeance, having, in Beveridge's view, "stagnated" leading into the bye. The Dogs have dropped four of their past six matches but the manner of their defeat to the Swans when they struggled to win the contested ball and lacked run surprised several rival teams. They were also crunched in hit-outs.

"I think their history suggests over the last two years they play a certain brand of footy consistently. That's what we will expecting this week," Goodwin said.

"Last week was probably the first time that they haven't played that way for a couple of years now. It was probably something that was a bit abnormal to them. We expect a response from them, no doubt."

The Demons, in sixth spot on the ladder, have been buoyed by their recent form. They have won three of their past four matches, including a bruising four-point win over Collingwood on Monday when Pies ruckman Brodie Grundy (53 hit-outs) threatened to be a match-winner.

Goodwin said frontline ruckman Max Gawn, who ripped his hamstring against Geelong in round three and required surgery, was in the frame to return.

"He had a really strong training session [on Tuesday]. We will make a decision later in the week," he said.

"In terms of footy work, he has done a lot more than a week's footy work, I can guarantee you that. He has done four weeks of some pretty solid running and is also back into his footy work."

Jake Spencer returned returned via the VFL on Saturday from an AC joint injury and will also be available for senior selection soon.

The Demons went some way to negating Grundy in the second half, when Cam Pederson was sent forward and undersized pair Jack Watts and Tom McDonald were used in the ruck. Their agility helped the Demons to break even in the clearances.

"I think it has been proved now over a 12-month period that you don't necessarily have to win the hit-outs to win the clearances. It comes down to a whole range of things. There is no doubt that the Bulldogs have proved over a period of time that is the case as well," Goodwin said.

Key forward Jesse Hogan is back training after having surgery for testicular cancer but a match return appears about a month away.

"Just that recovery period has taken a little bit longer. He will do a few weeks of training and be could come to hand quite quickly, so we are not definitely saying 4-6 [weeks]. At the moment he is definitely 2-3 weeks away," Goodwin said.

 

[BEaston]

Ugh, fully expecting Viney, Lewis, etc to be sniping JJ at full capacity on Sunday.