Preview Changes vs North

[Leon]

Better beat Norf

Yeah, this.

 

[BRWB]

Am I the only one who can't tell any North players apart? Well except for Harvey, Ben Brown and Goldy.

The guy diving and ducking is Lindsay

The guy pointing will be Higgo

 

[Next Waiting]

IN: Picko, Boyd, Boyd, Rough, Roberts

OUT: Jong, Roarkey, TC, Redpath, Talia



Jong needs a spell, Picko to compete much harder than he has. Still think we're short of a ball winner though so it could be Pearce who comes out for Picko.

Roberts exactly where he should go.

As said above, i'd think about keeping Jong since contested ball was a weakness last week and maybe i'd rather add Picko than to swap him in maybe. Also would consider playing Toyd and Red and having them share the back up ruck duties. Will keep them both fresh and Stringer and Crameri and the antithesis of liabilities on the deck so we can probably afford it.

I think Roberts is a cert in our finals team (barring injury) but I don't know if this is the week they'll bring him in. Tight call though coz Talia appears as if he just doesn't get the system.
Selections will be interesting this week. I'd be reluctant to give North a preview of anything like our finals team.

 

[the big lebowski]

Sam Wright?? Is this real life?

Has to be thompson or Spud firrito.

Spot on. Probably Thompson.

Wright is perfect for Dickson.

 

[TiAn_]

Hawthorn's game style, ball movement and structure has changed substantially each year. They do this to remain a challenger.

In both football and business the minute you think you do not need to change is the minute you are starting the demise of your team or business.

Obviously this discussion is to subtle for you or you have not been involved in football to much either playing or coaching. Fair enough, you support and love the club and can have your opinion. Will disagree with you both on your premise and that it working, we should always look to improve and don't believe big Red in the team is working well, moreso others have gone to another level.

Carry on

Hawthorn have not "changed substantially" their game style and structure every season. I doubt that even if they were making substantial changes they would only be perceptible to a veteran AFL player and coach like you

The two references to business as well as football have me intrigued as to why you think you're qualified to talk about either subject with the authority/arrogance you're affording yourself?

There's a massive difference between subtly arguing a point and making vague generalizations absent of any insight (e.g. "the minute you think you do not need to change is the minute you are starting the demise"). Perhaps that in itself is too subtle a concept to grasp.

Other than that, you've certainly made a solid case for why Hawthorn should drop their forward line after only kicking 13 last week

 

[immortalmike]

The guy diving and ducking is Lindsay

The guy pointing will be Higgo

That's five down 17 to go.

 

[Fossie 32]

That's five down 17 to go.

They got some guy from Carlton didn't they?

 

[Super Hans]

I'll be very disappointed if Smith is dropped after one game, can't see it happening.

 

[go you pups]

I'll be very disappointed if Smith is dropped after one game, can't see it happening.

In a crunch game with plenty of people to come back in, even with Grant and Morris's injuries he's up there.

We need to win this game with close to our best 22 available, the blokes coming back from injury have had their VFL spell it's time they came back.

 

[grassman75]

Am I the only one who can't tell any North players apart? Well except for Harvey, Ben Brown and Goldy.

I said the same to the guys at work rpt he other day. I could walk into Arden street while they were training and not be able to tell you who any of them were. Such a Meh group of neat and potatoes footballers

 

[grassman75]

That's five down 17 to go.

Isn't there a very tall, dark skinned one with lots of muscles that tore us a new arse one game and has not been sighted since?

And there is David's brother

Oh yeah and another tall forward kinda guy who used to tear us a new arse every time we played them, sounds like something sciencey, the dish or something?

 

[The Original Swooper]

There seems to be healthy competition on all lines for places in the 22. But with only 2 games left, we should start shoring up our best 22-25. The ruck connundrum is my only concern.

Ace Cordy - not an option
Campbell - injury cloud and very disparate form. His best is great, but I still believe he hasn't the tank for 4 quarters of solo rucking
Minson - his VFL efforts are not inspiring

So, how about this.

Roughead as #1 ruck
Play both Toyd and Big Red. Either can give Roughy a chop out. Against Norf, and more specifically Goldstein we need to keep the pressure on. No coincidence when Campbell was corked halfway thru the 3rd qtr was when Nic Nat

 

[The Original Swooper]

Oops

Nic Nat upped his dominance and had tap outs to the mids served on a silver platter. We got blown away. Playing Biggs and Bont as rucks was quaint but not the answer in a final. Red did well in the centre square duels I thought.

Thoughts ?

 

[lachy]

Hawthorn have not "changed substantially" their game style and structure every season. I doubt that even if they were making substantial changes they would only be perceptible to a veteran AFL player and coach like you

The two references to business as well as football have me intrigued as to why you think you're qualified to talk about either subject with the authority/arrogance you're affording yourself?

There's a massive difference between subtly arguing a point and making vague generalizations absent of any insight (e.g. "the minute you think you do not need to change is the minute you are starting the demise"). Perhaps that in itself is too subtle a concept to grasp.

Other than that, you've certainly made a solid case for why Hawthorn should drop their forward line after only kicking 13 last week

You really have no idea:

Below is an article from July about Clarkson and Hawthorn. I have talked with assistant coaches from other league clubs who by the way, those from successful clubs also adopt the same philosophy. As a mere local league coach I am actually in Awe of the hawks coaching regime and wrapped that our coach comes from than program and can build on it. BTW there are posters on this board whose playing and coaching experience dwarfs mine, but you will not see them making naïve and clichéd references to support an argument.

As for the business reference, if you seriously want you know why I am qualified in this area happy to provide but I am not sure you would get it. But enjoy the read


Alastair Clarkson is the mastermind who keeps re-inventing the Hawks, how does your club play?

July 11, 2015 8:00pm

SAM EDMUNDHerald Sun

Hawks coach Alastair Clarkson has continued to re-invent his team year after year.

ALASTAIR Clarkson clearly isn’t a fan of the phrase: “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”

There wouldn’t be many clubs in world sport who win a Grand Final or equivalent by a landslide and then overhaul their game plan. But that’s exactly what Clarkson and company did at Waverley Park over the off-season.

The Hawks had claimed back-to-back flags, belting Sydney by 10 goals on the biggest day of the year to make it 42 wins from 50 games across 2013-2014.

Brett Deledio is a key cog in the Tiger machine. Picture: Wayne Ludbey

1 of 6

There seemed no reason to change anything.

But Clarkson didn’t spend the summer months basking in the sun and his own success. He went on another overseas mission to study other sports and then sat down to change how the best side in the AFL plays the game.

Incredibly, half way through the 2015 season, Clarkson and his Hawks are gunning for a fourth flag with a third different game plan.

The ingenious Clarko Cluster brought Geelong unstuck in 2008 and precision transition set them apart from a defence-obsessed competition in 2013-2014.

Now, Hawthorn is the best pressing side in the league, pinning rivals and the ball inside the Hawks’ forward half at a level they’ve never come close to before.

Constantly changing and evolving, Clarkson has turned Hawthorn into footy’s chameleon.

“I’ve never experienced a coach like him in all my life. The work ethic, the hours, the planning. It’s no fluke,” Hawks premiership player and Brownlow medallist Shane Crawford said this week.

“He’s always looking to change and he’s brave and bold. He’s prepared to make mistakes and test things out because the best way to understand if things will work is putting it in the heat of battle. Even if it doesn’t work I can guarantee you, behind closed doors, his mind will be churning over how he can get it working. He’s not going to die wondering.”

Most footy analysts believe the Cluster was designed to beat raging favourite Geelong, a side that flicked the ball around and swept it forward with panache.

Unlike the Hawks we’ve come to know, it was a defence-first philosophy that kept the ball in their half and saw them cough up just 43 inside 50s a game — ranked No. 1 that year.

“Sharks, they have to have forward momentum. Sharks die if they get caught in the net because there is no water and oxygen running over their gills. So as soon as they stop, they die,” Clarkson famously told his players before that dramatic ‘08 decider.

“(Geelong) will try to come through us like a shark. Good luck to them. Good luck to them on a big stage like the grand final with lots of pressure, the best defensive pressure side in the competition they are coming up against.”

The back-to-back flags were built on an attack that overwhelmed sides, with the Hawks the only side in the game to average more than 100 points during the 2014 home and away season.

Once inside 50m last year they were lethal, converting an entry to a goal at the highest ratio in the competition. The Hawks only ranked third for inside 50m differential and seventh for time in forward half differential. It wasn’t about the press, it was all about efficiency.

Until now.

Hawthorn are the pressing specialists this year, keeping the ball in its attacking half more than 10 minutes longer each game. The Hawks average 15 more inside 50s per game than their opposition — ranked No. 1, they’ve forced 27 forward half turnovers — ranked No. 1 and they score 37 points per game from these turnovers — ranked equal No.1. They’re also peerless at scoring from clearances.

As a result of the press they haven’t been as efficient in turning forward entries into goals, but they are only scoring two points less per game and are still the highest-scoring team in the game. Defensively, however, they are nearly a goal a game better.

It’s a significant shift in philosophy.

“This is why Alastair is the best coach in it. I wonder if he’s saying: ‘You know what? Every team is trying to play like us now, so we can afford to be different again’,” analyst and former North Melbourne star David King said.

“I think he knows you’ve got to evolve. He’s changing all the time, he just adapts and what he does do is he makes Hawthorn hard to plan for. You might get a whole pre-season to plan for how you think they’re going to play and then all of a sudden it’s a different plan altogether.”

Crawford said Hawthorn’s unrivalled flexibility, developed in the wake of Lance Franklin’s dramatic exit, was another factor in its ability to turn its strategies upside down.

“I don’t think we’ve ever seen a Hawthorn side so flexible in its huge history, ever,” Crawford said.

“Never have they had a side where their forward line can pretty much go and play in the midfield and their defenders can play midfield or forward. It’s the most flexible side in history when you look at the way they manoeuvre everyone.

“It’s their greatest asset. I still find it incredible that you’ve got someone who could almost kick 100 goals (Roughead) ... being used through the middle and he dominates centre clearances.

“It’s strong role playing and it’s about fitting into the puzzle.”

It’s a puzzle the rest of the competition is constantly battling to solve.

 

[lachy]

Oops

Nic Nat upped his dominance and had tap outs to the mids served on a silver platter. We got blown away. Playing Biggs and Bont as rucks was quaint but not the answer in a final. Red did well in the centre square duels I thought.

Thoughts ?

Biggs and Bonts as third man up is not to bad. As back up rucks, only for a few minutes to try something different.

I agree with your premise that coming up to finals we need to settle things down. Our second ruck must be able to be reasonably competent so it does not become a major weakness. So either Campbell remains and Roughy comes in as the back up ruckman or Toyd must come in, possibly all 3. It is not a one for one swap more a team balance and flexibility issue. It is why Red's position in the team needs to be reviewed until he does hold more marks

 

[fronkalicious]

Agree that Daniel looked pretty cooked watching the game. Would consider giving him a spell as well.

Be surprised if we don't make at least 5 changes tonight.

 

[BEaston]

Haven't been more pumped for selection in quite a while!

 

[Mutt]

I honestly had to look up who Sam Wright is.

Sam Wright is in great form as a defender. He would be an option for Stringer but probably better suited to Dickson.

Norf are in very good nick at the moment and have an even spread of talent across the park. They will be a bloody handful in the form they are in atm.

 

[fronkalicious]

Sam Wright is in great form as a defender. He would be an option for Stringer but probably better suited to Dickson.

Agreed M. Was at the game on Sunday and he kick started things for norf. Going very well.

Was also massively impressed with Spurr and Sutcliffe from freo. No name, mid sized white boys that read the game incredibly well and are super brave in the air. Was a ripping game.

 

[Yojimbo]

Stringer- Thompson.
Crameri- Firrito.
Redpath- Tarrant.

 

[Mutt]

Agreed M. Was at the game on Sunday and he kick started things for norf. Going very well.

Was also massively impressed with Spurr and Sutcliffe from freo. No name, mid sized white boys that read the game incredibly well and are super brave in the air. Was a ripping game.

I really like Spurr as well Fronk. Sutcliffe hasn't made as big an impression on me but I'll watch him more closely.

Back on Norf...Tarrant was also (finally) excellent for Norf on the weekend. His best game for ages. He'd possibly match up on Boyd if we bring him in, or on Redpath if not. They have some quality players with size at both ends of the park and will trouble us in the air.

 

[the big lebowski]

Agreed M. Was at the game on Sunday and he kick started things for norf. Going very well.

Was also massively impressed with Spurr and Sutcliffe from freo. No name, mid sized white boys that read the game incredibly well and are super brave in the air. Was a ripping game.

Yeah spur gave Thomas an absolute bath. If Scott was consistent he would probably drop him for that game. Don't think he will though.

 

[TiAn_]

You really have no idea:

Below is an article from July about Clarkson and Hawthorn. I have talked with assistant coaches from other league clubs who by the way, those from successful clubs also adopt the same philosophy. As a mere local league coach I am actually in Awe of the hawks coaching regime and wrapped that our coach comes from than program and can build on it. BTW there are posters on this board whose playing and coaching experience dwarfs mine, but you will not see them making naïve and clichéd references to support an argument.

As for the business reference, if you seriously want you know why I am qualified in this area happy to provide but I am not sure you would get it. But enjoy the read

You could have just highlighted the parts where it describes how Hawthorn have changed their structure. Oh wait, you couldn't, because that whole article is fluff and doesn't include a single insight into how they've purportedly changed their tactics or structure, save for "they're pressing a bit more" (which is indicative of most AFL "journalism"). Hardly the "substantial changes" you claimed they've made EVERY year. In fact, you can infer from that article that they hadn't made any significant tactical changes for a number of years prior. Again, this contradicts your point.

We've already wandered offside enough in this thread. If you've any interest in convincing me you're not a muppet that's talking out of his behind, you can PM me your analysis of how Hawthorn have "substantially changed" their strategy each year and those business credentials that I apparently "won't get". Otherwise, I'm happy to move on.

 

[Zgope1]

This should be a ripping contest. North have a fair bit of quality all over the field. They should trouble us in the air. Structurally i'd be looking to have us go tall enough to compete in the air but still play the shorter side. If we win it'll be because we've exposed their tall forward line with our spread from defence.

My ever updating team is this:

Minson, Toyd, Rough,Fletch, Picken, Moyd
for
TC, Redpath, Talia, Roarke, Pearce, Grant

I've taken a risk and gone with Jong over Grant. Both pretty poor last week but Jong gives us a fighting chance in midfield rotations.

Stoppage brigade ranges from: Wally, Bont, Macrae, Picko, Jong, Dahl with the occasional chop out from Stringer.

Redpath pretty stiff but doesn't pose a big enough marking threat.

 

[TiAn_]

Our key backs are critical this week. I still have nightmares about Majak's 6 goals.