Christians are easily startled, but they'll soon be back. And in greater numbers 36:11

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[CM86]

Je parle Francais.

Ouch!

Amazingly, this doesn't impact your 'truth' at all. You just know that everyone else is wrong, but you don't 'currently' have the right response.

The more you're shown to be incorrect, the more convinced you are of your position.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

'I think therefore I am' is an accepted philosophical truth.

It amuses me to see theists extrapolate that to mean their terrorist god is legitimate.

I can't and won't speak for other agnostic people but for me myself I don't say ANY deities are 'legitimate'. I think people should be free to find personal solace though in a belief that there is something beyond death to 'look forward' to or a blind faith that there is some grand architect assembling the building blocks of their lives so they don't have to.

Whether that individual faith is true or not is irrelevant to me and my life.

 

[evolved2]

Amazingly, this doesn't impact your 'truth' at all. You just know that everyone else is wrong, but you don't 'currently' have the right response.

The more you're shown to be incorrect, the more convinced you are of your position.

I wont let you muddy the waters. When was I shown to be wrong?

 

[evolved2]

I can't and won't speak for other agnostic people but for me myself I don't say ANY deities are 'legitimate'. I think people should be free to find personal solace though in a belief that there is something beyond death to 'look forward' to or a blind faith that there is some grand architect assembling the building blocks of their lives so they don't have to.

Whether that individual faith is true or not is irrelevant to me and my life.

How do you feel about theists forming beliefs and political policy based on their imaginary friends instructions?

You're an emu, much like most agnostics.

 

[evolved2]

Being agnostic is pointing out that you hold a consistent view.

As opposed to theists and atheists who also hold a consistent view.

You don't believe in a god, because you've never been shown evidence that there is no god.

Nobody has been show evidence for a deity.

You also don't believe that there cannot be a god, because you've never been shown evidence that there cannot be a god.

Define god.

Radical atheism is destroying this country!!!

All thinking men are atheists. Obviously you're not one of us.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

How do you feel about theists forming beliefs and political policy based on their imaginary friends instructions?

You're an emu, much like most agnostics.

The State itself must remain godless. While allowing for differing beliefs it must not allow any to dictate government policy regarding those not of that religion.

If this means restricting democracy, so be it. Church and State MUST remain unaffiliated.

 

[evolved2]

The State itself must remain godless. While allowing for differing beliefs it must not allow any to dictate government policy regarding those not of that religion.

If this means restricting democracy, so be it. Church and State MUST remain unaffiliated.

Will you respect my belief that Essendon will go through the 2026 AFL season undefeated?

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Will you respect my belief that Essendon will go through the 2026 AFL season undefeated?

Yes. Will you respect mine that Geelong will avenge the dacks-down humiliation they recieved at the hands of Brisbane in the 2025 Grand Final even if it conflicts with your own belief?

 

[evolved2]

Yes. Will you respect mine that Geelong will avenge the dacks-down humiliation they recieved at the hands of Brisbane in the 2025 Grand Final even if it conflicts with your own belief?

**** yes!

In the off chance that Essendon don't win next year, I'll support the cats.

 

[CM86]

I wont let you muddy the waters. When was I shown to be wrong?

In the quotes you replied to.

As opposed to theists and atheists who also hold a consistent view.

No, neither do.
Theists are worse.

But an atheists 'knows' that a god cannot exist.
An agnostic understands that a god cannot exist.
How have you spent so much of your life on this, and yet you still don't understand the basics?

I can state that every time you zip, you zap. Every time you zig, you zag. Every time you herp, you derp.
And while you can have an understanding an knowledge that this isn't true, because it's nonsense, you cannot actually disprove it, because there is no metric to engage it with.
You cannot prove that a god does not exist.

You cannot prove that anything exists outside of your own instant experience.
You cannot prove that what you see or hear is true.
All you can actually know as a truth, is that you exist.
'Cogito ergo sum' - I think therefore I am.

Define god.

Is this all you have left?
You went so MAGA, that now all you have is to still point out you were right about religions?
I can't define god, because I don't believe a god exists.

It's why I also cannot prove a god doesn't exist.

If neither of us can actually define something, we also cannot actual disprove it. Because something undefined cannot be proven to exist or not exist.

Dividing something by zero can be explained, defined and known. But we still don't have a metric or value for it.

All thinking men are atheists. Obviously you're not one of us.

All herps are derps, obviously.

You think there are only two genders, you're not a thinker. You're not a piss taker. You're a gulper.

 

[Roylion]

'God', (which has never been adequately defined in any case) if, what ever it is, exists as it all, is unknowable. I can't disprove the existence of God, therefore I cannot say that I know God definitely does not exist. Nor can I disprove the 'supernatural', but neither do I see any evidence of its' claimed existence.

Bertrand Russell:

"An atheist, like a Christian, holds that we can know whether or not there is a God.

The Christian holds that we can know there is a God; the atheist, that we can know there is not. The Agnostic suspends judgment, saying that there are not sufficient grounds either for affirmation or for denial."

The English biologist Thomas Henry Huxley coined the word 'agnostic' in 1869, and said:

"It simply means that a man shall not say he knows or believes that which he has no scientific grounds for professing to know or believe."

He also said,,,,

"Agnosticism, in fact, is not a creed, but a method, the essence of which lies in the rigorous application of a single principle ... Positively the principle may be expressed: In matters of the intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable."

A agnostic would say, "I cannot know whether a deity exists or not, and neither can you."

There are of course various degrees of agnosticism

Another agnostic might say: "I don't know whether any deity exists or not, and I don't care if any deity exists or not."

Yet another agnostic might say. "I don't know whether any deities exist or not, but maybe one day, if there is evidence, we can find something out."

Agnostics will treat, with considerable disbelief and incredulity, those who claim to definitely 'know' that there is a god or gods through their own 'experiences' or that they know the 'will' or 'form' of such a supernatural being through the reading of a 'Holy' text or other works.

As such they will often reject 'religion' in its various forms. As do I.

 

[Total Power]

This is changing the goal posts. None of that is making me conform to anything.

I don't think you have travelled anywhere. I have posted here that i have had family and friends going through this in the US.

You can hang shit on fundamentalists all you like and I'll agree but carrying on about how all Christians are morons because you don't subscribe to their beliefs is over the top.

Where have i said all Christians are morons? You love putting words in peoples mouth. A belief has got nothing to do with people being idiots.

It was enlightenment thinking, that often went against church teachings and was inspired largely by non-Christian Greek philosophy, that drove these progressive advancements.

I'm pissed so I'll let something personal slip. When I was at uni, with small kids and a pregnant wife, the Anglican food bank helped feed my family. Christians do plenty of good work.

Sure so does Islam and every other religion. That's not the point.

Maybe because I grew up in a nonreligious household is why I don't give a shit about what other people believe. Stiff shit if someone wants to call you a sinner. Why would you care?

Cause why would they care if i don't believe in their belief system? As i said, outside of bigfooty, i go about my life as if religion doesn't exist, until it affects my friends and family. But somehow my experiences are 'irrelevant and exaggeration' but yours is 'authentic'.

Cool.

I have never been harassed by a Christian. Or a Muslim or jew for that matter.

I have, multiple times in multiple places, starting from childhood (i grew up in a religious household). I was taught to hate myself and the world a place full of sinners and seek salvation in the one and only orelse face a lake of fire. That's just one of the MANY child abusing Christian belief system.

and many posters in this thread.. western royboy

The world doesn't revolve around your experiences. By your own admission you grew up in a non religious household so with all due respect your opinion on this matter is absolutely worthless. Your posts tell me neither you have travelled to many places nor you are capable of understand other perspectives with doesn't apply to your confirmation bias.

Go ask a Pakistani LGBTQ or an atheist agnostic he deals with his life.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Interesting argument from ACL

 

[Seeds]

'God', (which has never been adequately defined in any case) if, what ever it is, exists as it all, is unknowable. I can't disprove the existence of God, therefore I cannot say that I know God definitely does not exist. Nor can I disprove the 'supernatural', but neither do I see any evidence of its' claimed existence.

Bertrand Russell:

"An atheist, like a Christian, holds that we can know whether or not there is a God.

The Christian holds that we can know there is a God; the atheist, that we can know there is not. The Agnostic suspends judgment, saying that there are not sufficient grounds either for affirmation or for denial."

The English biologist Thomas Henry Huxley coined the word 'agnostic' in 1869, and said:

"It simply means that a man shall not say he knows or believes that which he has no scientific grounds for professing to know or believe."

He also said,,,,

"Agnosticism, in fact, is not a creed, but a method, the essence of which lies in the rigorous application of a single principle ... Positively the principle may be expressed: In matters of the intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable."

A agnostic would say, "I cannot know whether a deity exists or not, and neither can you."

There are of course various degrees of agnosticism

Another agnostic might say: "I don't know whether any deity exists or not, and I don't care if any deity exists or not."

Yet another agnostic might say. "I don't know whether any deities exist or not, but maybe one day, if there is evidence, we can find something out."

Agnostics will treat, with considerable disbelief and incredulity, those who claim to definitely 'know' that there is a god or gods through their own 'experiences' or that they know the 'will' or 'form' of such a supernatural being through the reading of a 'Holy' text or other works.

As such they will often reject 'religion' in its various forms. As do I.

There is not one peer reviewed repeatable empirical study in known human history that has found the supernatural to be a cause of particular phenomena on earth. They always either come to no conclusion or conclude its due to physical forces (usually implicitly so). To claim the argument for athiesm is not credible because its reduced to a single persons lack of experience with the supernatural is not an accurate representation of why athiests are athiests. Its based on an actual understanding of science. Note science cant 100 percent proove anything to be true, but that does not mean we are agnostic about everything.

And yes there may be a god who sits on the sidelines and never has any influence on the earth. But if that was so, then from the point of view of humans, that god does not exist. A falling tree only makes a sound if there is someone to perceive it.

 

[evolved2]

In the quotes you replied to.

Let's examine your claims.

No, neither do.
Theists are worse.

While I disagree, there's no reason to argue over minutiae.

But an atheists 'knows' that a god cannot exist.

An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a god. A theist is someone who believes in a god.

An agnostic is someone who is confused.

An agnostic understands that a god cannot exist.

Wouldn't that make them an atheist rather than agnostic?

How have you spent so much of your life on this, and yet you still don't understand the basics?

I can state that every time you zip, you zap. Every time you zig, you zag. Every time you herp, you derp.
And while you can have an understanding an knowledge that this isn't true, because it's nonsense, you cannot actually disprove it, because there is no metric to engage it with.
You cannot prove that a god does not exist.

You can't prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Invisible Pink Unicorn, and the dragon that lives in my garage don't exist.

How do you feel about my claim that a dragon lives in my garage?

You're gonna have a very hard life if you sit on the fence as an agnostic for every claim that can't be proved or disproved.

You cannot prove that anything exists outside of your own instant experience.
You cannot prove that what you see or hear is true.
All you can actually know as a truth, is that you exist.
'Cogito ergo sum' - I think therefore I am.

Agreed.

Is this all you have left?
You went so MAGA, that now all you have is to still point out you were right about religions?

Not sure what MAGA has to do with me, but I'm all ears. Let me have it!

I can't define god, because I don't believe a god exists.

You don't believe in god, then you're an atheist. Welcome to the club.

It's why I also cannot prove a god doesn't exist.

It's not easy to disprove something you can't define.

If neither of us can actually define something, we also cannot actual disprove it. Because something undefined cannot be proven to exist or not exist.

That's pretty much my point. If I say that fsdfdskslc created the Universe and is coming back to save us, are you agnostic about my claim because you can't prove or disprove it?

Dividing something by zero can be explained, defined and known. But we still don't have a metric or value for it.


All herps are derps, obviously.

You think there are only two genders, you're not a thinker. You're not a piss taker. You're a gulper.

I have nfi how many genders there are and you can't teach an old dog (like me) new tricks, so there's little point engaging on that issue.

 

[Chief]

You enable theists.

I'm done playing kind with you and your like.

 

[evolved2]

That's mean!

 

[sdfc]

I don't think you have travelled anywhere. I have posted here that i have had family and friends going through this in the US.



Where have i said all Christians are morons? You love putting words in peoples mouth. A belief has got nothing to do with people being idiots.

It was enlightenment thinking, that often went against church teachings and was inspired largely by non-Christian Greek philosophy, that drove these progressive advancements.




Sure so does Islam and every other religion. That's not the point.


Cause why would they care if i don't believe in their belief system? As i said, outside of bigfooty, i go about my life as if religion doesn't exist, until it affects my friends and family. But somehow my experiences are 'irrelevant and exaggeration' but yours is 'authentic'.

Cool.



I have, multiple times in multiple places, starting from childhood (i grew up in a religious household). I was taught to hate myself and the world a place full of sinners and seek salvation in the one and only orelse face a lake of fire. That's just one of the MANY child abusing Christian belief system.

and many posters in this thread.. western royboy

The world doesn't revolve around your experiences. By your own admission you grew up in a non religious household so with all due respect your opinion on this matter is absolutely worthless. Your posts tell me neither you have travelled to many places nor you are capable of understand other perspectives with doesn't apply to your confirmation bias.

Go ask a Pakistani LGBTQ or an atheist agnostic he deals with his life.

That is why I said maybe it's because I grew up in a non-religious household that I don't care I acknowledge people can have different experiences. You clearly don't.

What has me travelling got to do with it? I've been to the US and wasn't harassed by anyone, religious or otherwise.

Just one guy who wanted to bum $40 off us in the carpark of one of their enormous servos to get some fuel. My wife gave him $100. I was more aggrieved at her than anyone else in the country.

Equating old Betty at the church op-shop with Pakistani fundamentalists is over the top.

You're not just railing against the church but against all religious people.

 

[sdfc]

Logic and objective evidence or theism.

The logic of certainty. I think you have slipped into a belief system.

 

[evolved2]

The logic of certainty. I think you have slipped into a belief system.

Interesting claim. What is my belief system?

 

[sdfc]

Interesting claim. What is my belief system?

I would say having certainty about something you can't be certain about is a belief system.

 

[evolved2]

I would say having certainty about something you can't be certain about is a belief system.

I'm not certain in any way, I'm playing the odds.

Even if there is a god, would they throw me in a lake of fire for the crime of not believing in them? I'm sure you agree religion-based theism is silly.

 

[sdfc]

I'm not certain in any way, I'm playing the odds.

Even if there is a god, would they throw me in a lake of fire for the crime of not believing in them? I'm sure you agree religion-based theism is silly.

People can believe what they want as far as I'm concerned. I form my views of people by how they act. Whether they are religious or not is irrelevant.

 

[evolved2]

People can believe what they want as far as I'm concerned. I form my views of people by how they act. Whether they are religious or not is irrelevant.

How do you feel about creationism being taught at school?

Many creationists are respectful and well-behaved.

 

[Wallaby]

How do you feel about creationism being taught at school?

Many creationists are respectful and well-behaved.

Which creationism? Any one of the myriad of Australian Aboriginal creation stories? Hindu? Greek Mythology starting with Chaos? There's a lot of those out there. (Look up the Spiderwoman legends in Native American mythology).

If you teach it as cultural history, I've got no problem with any of them. Just not in any scientific class (biology, geography, chemistry etc).