Analysis Clarko in 2019 “We’re a middle of the road team”

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Pessimistic

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I can’t think of one hawk we could trade out for the equivalent of the early second round pick we already have courtesy of Collingwood.

saying hawks didn’t go hard enough in the last trade period is selective and frankly trash talk
 
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Brishawk

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I can’t think of one hawk we could trade out for the equivalent of the early second round pick we already have courtesy of Collingwood.

saying hawks go hard enough in the last trade period is selective and frankly trash talk
This was the trade:
1620887114998.png

Then we landed Downie for trash and traded back in to secure brockman at pick 42. Was great manoeuvring.
 

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The hands of stone

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We've said that for the last 3-4 years.
We have ........my bro in law is a one eyed cats fan. Knows there list inside out and who they have coming through.
So his opinion is probably as good as youll get .

Fwiw he reckons they need to win it this year and possible will.
2022 they will still be decent but drop off a bit
2023 the cliff hits

He reckons they have nothing at all coming through and the talent that is there want to leave , through lack of opportunity and there list statergy.

Anyway time will tell
 

Realist

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Half of those players were not exactly flying in 2004-2005 though, were they?

I mean, Sewell was tradebait, Ladson was lucky to be kept around, Young was a spindly rookie, and Osborne was copping the same critiquing that Ollie currently gets for not doing enough or being at all reliable.
Are you fair dinkum? How could you possibly compare today’s list to 04-05?
Own up, you’re being paid by Hawthorn’s PR team, aren’t you? No one is really that delusional, surely.


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Strapping Young Lad

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Are you fair dinkum? How could you possibly compare today’s list to 04-05?
Own up, you’re being paid by Hawthorn’s PR team, aren’t you? No one is really that delusional, surely.


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Do I need to explain it slowly?
 

Pessimistic

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Are you fair dinkum? How could you possibly compare today’s list to 04-05?
Own up, you’re being paid by Hawthorn’s PR team, aren’t you? No one is really that delusional, surely.


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Then we were widely rated the list furthest from a flag, particularly compared to the bulldogs and tigers. The vibe was just like today, except it had been 13 years since a flag
That is exactly how it was
 

Jazzfan

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Are you fair dinkum? How could you possibly compare today’s list to 04-05?
Own up, you’re being paid by Hawthorn’s PR team, aren’t you? No one is really that delusional, surely.


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The bigger issue is between 2004 and 2006 we had 9 first round picks and 7 second round picks... that truly kick-started our rebuild.
 

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Timo pez

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Timmy played back. Ceglar didn’t play. Hartigan is our only full back. Phillips and shiels are not fringe players. To also add, Howe played for box hill.

it literally won’t matter who we play in the seniors or the reserves, there is no solution that will stop the complaining. People just don’t accept where the team and list are at. We don’t have buddy, roughy, Lewis and Rioli playing at box hill. We have Saunders, reeves, pepper. Brockman was also in the reserves that week but I believe he had a knock the week before so they may not have wanted him at senior level unless he was fully fit because it is harder to manage minutes at AFL level. Do you think had brockman played people would have been happy? What would it have taken for people to accept our performance?

people are looking for hope in youth but the reality is our youth need development time so the only way forward is patience and persistence.
Phillips was a fringe player at Collingwood, especially in his last year there. From an ability and performance standpoint, he's a fringe player here too. The only thing is, Clarko has brought the guy across (like Scully) and will be too stubborn to drop him.
Anyway, I agree you're not going to please everyone but i think this coaching group and administration should be questioned as to why we don't have any of those guns on our list that you mentioned, and why we are currently languishing again in the bottom 4. We used to get accolades for staying competitive but now we're not. We should have pivoted decisively once this was identified, but yet we started last year with Scully, Smith and Henderson as outside runners (and now Phillips) so clearly not the makeup of a side looking to rejuvenate with youth.
 

Howe Amazing

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Bombers aren’t in any better position than us they traded in Shiels, Stringer and Smith, including 2 firsts for Shiels. Stringer could leave for a payday and you would think that would seal Merret leaving to. We just have our young talent out or not quite ready. A good draft haul this year and next and we won’t be far away
 

Walshawk

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No, but it’s very important to remember that in 2004-2005 Mitchell and Hodge were equally high end talents with some hype that had their careers ahead of them, yet to really explode.
Mitch won the Rising Star in 2003. Hodge was AA & B&F 2005. You could tell each would be a champion very early on. Worps doesn’t have the game sense nor skills to get anywhere near that level. Day will be great but unlikely to be a Mitch or Hodge. There are two or three players drafter each year (at most) who as as good as those two.
What we will need to get back to the top is a lot of luck. Somebody asked how many flags we would have won with Pendles and Selwood (maybe 2011, 2012 & 2016?), but if we took Williams, Tambling and Griffen with 2,5 & 7 in 2004, we probably would not have won any flags since 1991. Would the Tiges have won a flag without Dusty?
You can’t win it without luck.
 

Judd2Sewell

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Bombers aren’t in any better position than us they traded in Shiels, Stringer and Smith, including 2 firsts for Shiels. Stringer could leave for a payday and you would think that would seal Merret leaving to. We just have our young talent out or not quite ready. A good draft haul this year and next and we won’t be far away
It will make for an interesting comparison over the next few years.

Ridley, Draper, Jones, McGrath, Perkins, Cox and Reid look like a decent start and most of those players have some exposed form.

Day and Worpel would be our equivalent of Ridley and McGrath.

Obviously time will tell whether we are in a better position.
 

H00t

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I will say as much as I want to go to the draft. I will accept that it is a risk. And not guaranteed to succeed. We’ve seen Melbourne, Carlton, GC languishing at the bottom for years despite an insane number of draft picks.

Sure these clubs have struggled down the bottom but Melbourne now look to be getting it right. And we aren’t these clubs. We don’t have the rubbish going on behind the scenes that caused most of their failings.

It amazes me that people always talk about the failed cases. Yet we never talk that Geelong (99-01), hawthorn(01,04) and Richmond (07, 09) built their premierships of the back of the draft. They may have traded in good players later but the draft is where all three teams set it up.

In fact no team as really won a flag without going hard at the draft. Sydney 2012 maybe? Though they had an extra million to play with and they still drafted super well.

There’s no secret to being a successful team. They all start from drafting well and the more picks you have the more play room you have to make mistakes. And you just keep going to you get it right. I back hawthorn to get it right.

It’s just frustrating we won’t try as we seem more focussed on not being Carlton than we do being hawthorn. Topping up doesn’t work. Geelong have had every player go to them and still haven’t done it.
 

Strapping Young Lad

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Mitch won the Rising Star in 2003. Hodge was AA & B&F 2005. You could tell each would be a champion very early on. Worps doesn’t have the game sense nor skills to get anywhere near that level. Day will be great but unlikely to be a Mitch or Hodge. There are two or three players drafter each year (at most) who as as good as those two.
What we will need to get back to the top is a lot of luck. Somebody asked how many flags we would have won with Pendles and Selwood (maybe 2011, 2012 & 2016?), but if we took Williams, Tambling and Griffen with 2,5 & 7 in 2004, we probably would not have won any flags since 1991. Would the Tiges have won a flag without Dusty?
You can’t win it without luck.
Sam averaged 18 disposals in 2004.
Luke averaged 15.

Both were high end talents, which we knew, but weren’t doing much in 2004.


Players like Williams, Bateman, Ladson, Osborne, Sewell would all go on to be premiership players, but they were critiqued to within an inch of their lives in 2004, similar to some of our current under 23’s.

As I highlighted earlier, we also had a void in regards to young developing talls, which is why we hit the draft to grab a CHF and FF.

The fact we have Kosi, Jeka and Lewis coming through is the difference between now and 2004 to my eyes, even if they aren’t the absolute elite talents that a pick 2 and 5 would be.

We need to pad out the middle of the ground with class.
 

offtherails9

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Sam averaged 18 disposals in 2004.
Luke averaged 15.

Both were high end talents, which we knew, but weren’t doing much in 2004.


Players like Williams, Bateman, Ladson, Osborne, Sewell would all go on to be premiership players, but they were critiqued to within an inch of their lives in 2004, similar to some of our current under 23’s.

As I highlighted earlier, we also had a void in regards to young developing talls, which is why we hit the draft to grab a CHF and FF.

The fact we have Kosi, Jeka and Lewis coming through is the difference between now and 2004 to my eyes, even if they aren’t the absolute elite talents that a pick 2 and 5 would be.

We need to pad out the middle of the ground with class.
Almost like players look better when they're playing in a better team hey.
 
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