Opinion Club History: Hawthorn's Mt.Rushmore

[Mercy Seat]

I think I would have to break up the most pivotal periods of the clubs history into 4 major points;
Early 1960s - first flag and Kennedy’s commandos
Late 70s-80s - period of ridiculous success
Mid 90s - club being saved from almost extinction
Late 2010s-2015 - our golden era

Given that, I’d chose the following;

• Kennedy (obvious choice)
• Matthews (Jeans /Tuck unlucky)
• Scott (Dicker unlucky, both helped save the club)
• Clarkson (Hodge unlucky, but Clarkson undoubtedly the most pivotal figure of this era)

 

[KermitJagger]

I think I would have to break up the most pivotal periods of the clubs history into 4 major points;
Early 1960s - first flag and Kennedy’s commandos
Late 70s-80s - period of ridiculous success
Mid 90s - club being saved from almost extinction
Late 2010s-2015 - our golden era

Given that, I’d chose the following;

• Kennedy (obvious choice)
• Matthews (Jeans /Tuck unlucky)
• Scott (Dicker unlucky, both helped save the club)
• Clarkson (Hodge unlucky, but Clarkson undoubtedly the most pivotal figure of this era)

Idk, line ball between Clarko and Hodge but I reckon Hodge + that team could win three in a row without Clarko but I'm not sure Clarko + that team could win 3 in a row without Hodge.

 

[Philhawk]

If Mitch wins 1 premiership as coach (along with 1 as captain and 3 as a player), does that move him above Hodge with 3 premierships as captain (2 Norms to boot)?

 

[Mercy Seat]

Idk, line ball between Clarko and Hodge but I reckon Hodge + that team could win three in a row without Clarko but I'm not sure Clarko + that team could win 3 in a row without Hodge.

Yeah the debate can definitely be had, but I just don't think Hodge is Hodge without Clarko - and that probably gives him the edge in my eyes. Hodge has talked quite extensively about the huge influence that Clarkson had in terms of turning things around from a professional perspective in the mid 00's and empowering him as a leader and player. A lot of the values the Hodge embodied came from the mentorship of Clarkson, and they really did become that 1-2 punch. That's why I'd have to say Clarkson edges him.

 

[SSSSSS]

Kanga
Scott
Lethal
Hodge

 

[Mopar Jason]

Kanga
Scott
Lethal
Hodge

Good choice all strong men who exerted influence and leadership on and off the field.

 

[TylerDurden]

Matthews (greatest)
Kennedy
Dunstall
Hodge

 

[CoagVex]

Kennedy
Matthews
Jeans
Clarko

 

[FB19]

Player - Matthews the greatest hawks player. Tuck and Dunstall next in.
Coach - I argue Jeans the greatest coach. Premiership Record stacks up with Kennedy and Clarkson much higher % wins and coached in an area of super clubs like the blues and dons.
Administrator had to be Ian Dicker. We simply don’t exist without him.
All round contribution. At this stage probably Don Scott. Immense player captain and also instrumental in not merging so major impact on several fronts.

 

[hardway]

Mathews
Dermott
Dipper
Hodge

Men made of stone

 

[Mopar Jason]

Mathews
Dermott
Dipper
Hodge

Men made of stone

And fearless

 

[phlogiston]

What I'm finding as interesting as the names is the way in which people are choosing to categorize: some by epoch, some by role, etc. Not saying any one is better than the other, just interesting and thought provoking.

I'm not sure who I would throw up as my four, but here's someone no-one has yet mentioned (and I think I've got this right): Barry Gavin. Physio in the 80s, and the man I believe who was behind the BBQs at training that started to lead to the "Family Club" moniker. If I've got my person wrong and / or my history wrong, please feel free to correct. (I don't know if he would be in my Fab Four, but thought I'd mention another lens).

P

 

[StillAtLarge]

If Mitch wins 1 premiership as coach (along with 1 as captain and 3 as a player), does that move him above Hodge with 3 premierships as captain (2 Norms to boot)?

Absolutely it does

 

[spudmaster]

I want to include Dew, just so the carver has his work cut out for him.

 

[Delecate Des]

Coach

• Jack Hale
• John Kennedy Snr
• Allan Jeans
• Allister Clarkson

Player

• Leigh Matthews
• Peter Hudson
• Jason Dunstall
• Michael Tuck

Administrator

• Alfy Kosky
• Sandy Ferguson
• Ron Cooke
• Allan Dicker

Clubman

• J Brain
• Roy Cazaly
• Don Scott
• Luke Hodge

Mt Hawkmore

• John Kennedy
• Leigh Mathews
• Allan Dicker
• Don Scott

 

[KermitJagger]

Coach

• Jack Hale
• John Kennedy Snr
• Allan Jeans
• Allister Clarkson

Player

• Leigh Matthews
• Peter Hudson
• Jason Dunstall
• Michael Tuck

Administrator

• Alfy Kosky
• Sandy Ferguson
• Ron Cooke
• Allan Dicker

Clubman

• J Brain
• Roy Cazaly
• Don Scott
• Luke Hodge

Mt Hawkmore

• John Kennedy
• Leigh Mathews
• Allan Dicker
• Don Scott

Not sure I'd have Don Scott in the clubman category. Notoriously fickle man that spent many years estranged from it.

 

[Delecate Des]

Not sure I'd have Don Scott in the clubman category. Notoriously fickle man that spent many years estranged from it.

True, took it more from the anti merger stand point.

 

[bigmaxi]

Matthews (greatest)
Kennedy
Dunstall
Hodge

Got a special place for Dunstall, stepped when it was his turn to go, CEO when he sorted out the club and brought Clarko on board. Ohh kicked a few majors for us too.

 

[bumsonseats]

I'm surprised no one has even considered Crimmo

 

[HolyRioli]

I'm surprised no one has even considered Crimmo

I was thinking the same thing. Conan also getting fewer mentions than I'd have expected.

 

[Bedi]

I suggest we dynamite it every decade to keep it fresh

60s: Kennedy, Arthur, Peck, Hudson
70s: Scott, Matthews, Crimmins, Knights
80s: Jeans, Dunstall, Brereton, Dipper
90s: Langford, Crawford, Dunstall, Platten
2000s: Crawford, Franklin, Hodge, Mitchell
2010s: Clarkson, Hodge, Rioli, Mitchell
Predicted 2020s: Sam Mitchell, Newcombe, M Lewis, Sicily

 

[Philhawk]

I suggest we dynamite it every decade to keep it fresh

60s: Kennedy, Arthur, Peck, Hudson
70s: Scott, Matthews, Crimmins, Knights
80s: Jeans, Dunstall, Brereton, Dipper
90s: Langford, Crawford, Dunstall, Platten
2000s: Crawford, Franklin, Hodge, Mitchell
2010s: Clarkson, Hodge, Rioli, Mitchell
Predicted 2020s: Sam Mitchell, Newcombe, M Lewis, Sicily

No love for Parkin in the 70s?

 

[moginie]

No love for Parkin in the 70s?

And no mention of Tuck at all.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

As hard as this exercise is, I pesonally believe Dunstall is non-negotiable.

Just too young to have caught peak Matthews, Dunstall is the best player I've seen at Hawthorn. I would argue Hawthorn of '88/'89 was the best team the game has ever seen and Dunstall won the best and fairest both years. He was our best player through 4 flags, won the B&F 4 times, won the league MVP, was runner up in the Brownlow as a key forward, won 3 Colemans during the zenith of goalkicking eras and kicked over 300 more goals than any other Hawk.

The above reasons, as compelling as they are, are NOT the reason I have chosen him though. He played full forward in an era where full forwards were the "main man" and cocky as hell (Capper, Modra, Ablett, etc), when they used intimidation and on field violence as a tool to get an edge (Ablett, Lockett, etc) and almost always were not really the hardest trainers or the biggest team players. Dunstall, on the other hand, was the consumate professional and the hardest trainer at the club, despite already being the best player. He also played with utmost fairness, never barrelling through players unnecessarily (even though it provides onfield advantages) and was never suspended. He bled for the club and was the ultimate team player, giving off 100's of goals and chasing hard, decades before that was normal. He also came back time and time again from gruelling injuries that would have ended the careers of most players at the time. He cared about the team above all else and was the only full forward of that era to even be considered for leadership, let alone be named captain. He captained, guided and faced the public with absolute professionalism through the worst part of our history - the merger. I truly believe the way he presented the club and himself was a pivotol part of the Hawthorn no vote and avoiding the merger (alongside Scott).

Those reasons are probably enough but they aren't all. Post career he stayed involved - as usual, in the background. Then, at our lowest on field ebb and in leadership (2004), he stepped in as interim CEO. He immediately made the hard calls and cleaned up some fueding factions on the board. The board also wanted Gary Ayers as coach but he made the executive - and highly criticised call - to appoint Clarkson instead. Once the mess was cleaned up and he found a new coach and new CEO, he stepped back in his typical humble fashion and served as a board member. He stayed on util the end of 2013 when the transformation was complete and club was again the best in the land. In many ways, you can attribute the 4 flags won under Clarko to the decision making of Dunstall - who was now directly involved in 8 flags and captained the club through the anti-meger.

I have no doubt that if the club were to crumble again (doubtful), he would step in and right the ship once more. Legend of the club and deserving of a place on Hawthorn Mt Rushmore.

 

[moistie]

With our history of success it is difficult. For me the candidates are:

John Kennedy Snr: played and coached the Clubs first flag, coached another 3. Instilled a professional and hard nosed approach to the game to a team that had been a joke in the league, winning 10 spoons in the first 30 years of its existence.

Leigh Matthews: the best player of the 20th century. Was 8x Club B&F, including in his first 3 flags and captain in his fourth. Won a Coleman.

Allan Jeans: Coach of the brilliant teams of the 80s, solidified the club culture as the family club.

Michael Tuck: Club games record holder, 7 flags, 4 as Captain.

Jason Dunstall: 1254 goals, but what is not noted is how many he gave away. The most unselfish goal scorer, he would pass off to players in a better position. 4 flags, 3 Coleman medals competing against Ablett and Lockett, 4 B&F including 2 in flag years, 12 times Club leading goal scorer.

Ian Dicker: Saved the club from merger, put in his own money, was President and put together a board that made the Club function properly then stepped away once the Club was safe.

Alastair Clarkson: Best coach of the modern era, introduced then refined many of the press and defensive tactics seen today.

Luke Hodge: The General, an on field coach, played every role imaginable including Ruck in one game. 4 flags, 3 as Captain, 2 B&F, 3 times All Australian, 2 Norm Smith medals.

Sam Mitchell: Went from Box Hill flag & VFL B&F in 2002 to Club Captain. Sublime skills on both sides of his body, 4 flags, 1 as Captain, 3 All Australians, 5 B&F, now coach.

Really any of them deserve to go on there but I'd go with:

Kennedy

Matthews

Dunstall

Hodge