Traded Cooper Stephens - Traded to Hawthorn as part of Henry/Mitchell deal

[Footy Smarts]

He is 21 years old. I would have thought that was the minimum standard for an AFL level player in their third year, especially a mid.

Between injury and covid I'm not sure he even played a vfl game prior to this season. Most of the early season was just building his fitness and managing him through games without breaking down again.

In the end he played a handful of AFL games and showed a bit. That was absolutely fine for this year. Another injury free preseason and we get to see what he can become. Who knows what that is but if he puts it all together his ceiling should be pretty high. No point trading him out for a junk pick now.

 

[Ricketz]

Actually the opposite I was really hoping he would make it but based on evidence he won't I have seen enough mids in my lifetime to see when a player won't make it, so we will see if he does stay and revisit this in a years time and see who is right.

I think I have already established that you don't actually know what you are talking about, and that you are not a good judge, so I will leave it there. Especially since you are basing this on four or five games.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Uncontracted tho, so won’t be that high

If he comes out and plays say 8-12 games as plays somae big games with a few bags of goals or shows he will be a future quality key forward at AFL level, it will be costing someone a first round pick.

 

[Big_Birdy]

Between injury and covid I'm not sure he even played a vfl game prior to this season. Most of the early season was just building his fitness and managing him through games without breaking down again.

In the end he played a handful of AFL games and showed a bit. That was absolutely fine for this year. Another injury free preseason and we get to see what he can become. Who knows what that is but if he puts it all together his ceiling should be pretty high. No point trading him out for a junk pick now.

I am not saying he should be traded. Just that AFL listed players playing well in the VFL is the minimum after a players first season, not a sign of things to come at AFL level. Understand there has been a significant injury, but he is still at that age where performing to a high standard in the VFL is a must.

Here are the stats for Xavier O'Neill in the last 10 WAFL games (similar age):



There are still plenty of question marks as to whether he will make it, but he is a pretty consistent high performer at WAFL level. As he should be.

 

[catman2006]

I think I have already established that you don't actually know what you are talking about, and that you are not a good judge, so I will leave it there. Especially since you are basing this on four or five games.

Fair enough and no based on 3 years in the system and I will be proven right, but Im happy to put my knowledge against yours anyday.

 

[BEEG]

If he comes out and plays say 8-12 games as plays somae big games with a few bags of goals or shows he will be a future quality key forward at AFL level, it will be costing someone a first round pick.

Kind of like Henry?

 

[Ricketz]

I am not saying he should be traded. Just that AFL listed players playing well in the VFL is the minimum after a players first season, not a sign of things to come at AFL level. Understand there has been a significant injury, but he is still at that age where performing to a high standard in the VFL is a must.

Here are the stats for Xavier O'Neill in the last 10 WAFL games (similar age):

View attachment 1531564

There are still plenty of question marks as to whether he will make it, but he is a pretty consistent high performer at WAFL level. As he should be.

How are they better than Stephen's stats?

 

[Ricketz]

Kind of like Henry?

Well Henry isnt playing in the reigning premier's forward line.

Yet.

 

[Ricketz]

Fair enough and no based on 3 years in the system and I will be proven right, but Im happy to put my knowledge against yours anyday.

Mate, you don't even know he was injured for the entirety of last year. I CBF going back to 2020, but I am sure he didn't play a full season because the VFL was cancelled by COVID.

This is becoming embarrassing.

 

[Footy Smarts]

I am not saying he should be traded. Just that AFL listed players playing well in the VFL is the minimum after a players first season, not a sign of things to come at AFL level. Understand there has been a significant injury, but he is still at that age where performing to a high standard in the VFL is a must.

Here are the stats for Xavier O'Neill in the last 10 WAFL games (similar age):

View attachment 1531564

There are still plenty of question marks as to whether he will make it, but he is a pretty consistent high performer at WAFL level. As he should be.

And according to the coaches who know what he's being asked to do he did perform at a consistently high level in the VFL being the 3rd highest rated player per game in the B&F. It doesn't imply he's going to be a gun but neither does some arbitrary statistics (see Constable for example).

I don't really see what the point is here. This year was always about getting through it and building. He had a good year at VFL level and got experience at AFL level while showing glimpses of his talent. Ultimately he may or may not make it but his performances in the VFL this year (which according to the coaches were very good) will have absolutely no bearing on it.

 

[Big_Birdy]

How are they better than Stephen's stats?

I never said they were, I raised them to show they are very similar. I doubt anyone is saying O'Neill is going to be better than Paddy Cripps though.

 

[Big_Birdy]

And according to the coaches who know what he's being asked to do he did perform at a consistently high level in the VFL being the 3rd highest rated player per game in the B&F. It doesn't imply he's going to be a gun but neither does some arbitrary statistics (see Constable for example).

I don't really see what the point is here. This year was always about getting through it and building. He had a good year at VFL level and got experience at AFL level while showing glimpses of his talent. Ultimately he may or may not make it but his performances in the VFL this year (which according to the coaches were very good) will have absolutely no bearing on it.

That is exactly the point I was trying to make.

 

[catman2006]

Mate, you don't even know he was injured for the entirety of last year. I CBF going back to 2020, but I am sure he didn't play a full season because the VFL was cancelled by COVID.

This is becoming embarrassing.

Yes I did know he was injured and again I take him as a whole of his 3 years not just one year, as you will see via our communications, and stated the reason why, I hope I am wrong and he becomes a 10 year player, but only 2 players in 13 years I have been wrong about, so I trust my feelings.

 

[Ricketz]

I never said they were, I raised them to show they are very similar. I doubt anyone is saying O'Neill is going to be better than Paddy Cripps though.

Again, that's not what I said. Either you can't or didn't read what I wrote.

 

[Big_Birdy]

Again, that's not what I said. Either you can't or didn't read what I wrote.

He is an inside mid - his disposal seems on par with others in the role. He was actually quite a decent kick in juniors. We won't be trading him, he will be Patty Cripps but with a tank and a lot more speed in a few years time.

Would having a tank and a lot more speed make Paddy Cripps worse?

 

[Footy Smarts]

That is exactly the point I was trying to make.

Right fair. Yeah the Cripps comparison is silly. Like there's a 1% chance or something that he ends up that good. But there's some chance he becomes an excellent player and a decent chance he's a solid role player or better. And a good chance he doesn't make it of course.

But we've put the time into him and the next couple of years is where we see whether it pays off. No point cashing out now for very little.

 

[Ricketz]

Would having a tank and a lot more speed make Paddy Cripps worse?

Do you want to reread my original clarification to your initial assumption?

Nowhere there have I said he would be better than Cripps. There are a lot of factors that go into making a Brownlow medalist. Aggression, skill, dominance, consistency - none of those factors were discussed by me.

He will be a big bodied midfielder, like Cripps, except faster and with a bigger tank.

Happy now?

 

[Big_Birdy]

Do you want to reread my original clarification to your initial assumption?

Nowhere there have I said he would be better than Cripps. There are a lot of factors that go into making a Brownlow medalist. Aggression, skill, dominance, consistency - none of those factors were discussed by me.

He will be a big bodied midfielder, like Cripps, except faster and with a bigger tank.

Happy now?

I was never unhappy. But thanks for clarifying.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Kind of like Henry?

Henry is a medium forward who got displaced behind Ash Johnson and jack Ginnivan in the best 22 as well as Nathan Krueger as a sub over him.

Neale is a 202cm key forward who can only play ahead of Cameron or Hawkins who are both AA key forwards.

quite a stupid comparison really

 

[Vindicater]

Well this thread has turned stupid.

I would be happy to take Stephens at Essendon however. (Doubt he wants anything to do with us)

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

He is an inside mid - his disposal seems on par with others in the role. He was actually quite a decent kick in juniors. We won't be trading him, he will be Patty Cripps but with a tank and a lot more speed in a few years time.

That would make him one of the best players of all time.

 

[Turbocat]

I feel CS has been one of the player who have been greatly affected by the covid lead up. Right now if a club came calling .. they might get a player really buying low. He played a key roll in best 22 mid prep in the finals .. and as much as geelong are bringing in players ... CS would be looking at selwood spot as his bets chance.

2023 is big year. If he fails to make any headway against a strong group of young mids he will be passed. On the otehr hand he could come in and be anotehr example just like Zac Guthrie of slow and steady development.

I cant see Geelong trading him out unless its an offer that exceed his current outsputs

 

[Turbocat]

Well this thread has turned stupid.

I would be happy to take Stephens at Essendon however. (Doubt he wants anything to do with us)

Funny thing is I think you have sort of turned the corner. Scott is a good move but gees some guys just are not happy unless they are rocking the boat up in the board room.


What would you offer?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Well this thread has turned stupid.

I would be happy to take Stephens at Essendon however. (Doubt he wants anything to do with us)

I think he's the type you need and I think he just needs sustained games. He's had one season of full length footy matches since he was what, 16? Has the right tools, needs a solid run at it

 

[The 747]

Well this thread has turned stupid.

I would be happy to take Stephens at Essendon however. (Doubt he wants anything to do with us)

Well he is Cripps with more speed so better pay up

In seriousness though, this is a good type of player for Essendon to target, but I doubt we would trade him.