Cripps or Oliver.

[WalshistheGOAT]

Give me examples of games where Melbourne players were unfairly given votes post a loss.

I shared a personal opinion on the Coaches Votes Award, not to be rude but I've got better s**t to do than dig through the last few years of footy results and coaches votes to find you examples of coaches bias.

Umps make mistakes, Coaches make mistakes... It's human nature. End of the day the Brownlow has always been the most prestigious award for a reason and its because the umps are as close to as unbiased judges as we have.

People also complain that its a midfielders award but midfielders are the best players in the game. A few gun KPF's and KPD's occasionally challenge the norm but mids win games and without them it doesn't matter whos at either end of the field.

 

[Trav 20]

I shared a personal opinion on the Coaches Votes Award, not to be rude but I've got better s**t to do than dig through the last few years of footy results and coaches votes to find you examples of coaches bias.

Umps make mistakes, Coaches make mistakes... It's human nature. End of the day the Brownlow has always been the most prestigious award for a reason and its because the umps are as close to as unbiased judges as we have.

People also complain that its a midfielders award but midfielders are the best players in the game. A few gun KPF's and KPD's occasionally challenge the norm but mids win games and without them it doesn't matter whos at either end of the field.

OK, so pure speculation that has no basis in fact.

Thanks.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

OK, so pure speculation that has no basis in fact.

Thanks.

Turns out some legend on Reddit already did it for me.

Look forward to ur response.

 

[Trav 20]

Turns out some legend on Reddit already did it for me.

Look forward to ur response.

I was expecting something riveting yet you link to a nothing burger.

17 to 14 ? Wow. How lopsided.

Oliver is the best contested player of the last 5 years and the best ground ball player of the last 5 years. Maybe, just maybe, Goodwin values those metrics. Throw in a player who racks it up 30+ times consistently.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I was expecting something riveting yet you link to a nothing burger.

17 to 14 ? Wow. How lopsided.

Oliver is the best contested player of the last 5 years and the best ground ball player of the last 5 years. Maybe, just maybe, Goodwin values those metrics. Throw in a player who racks it up 30+ times consistently.

You asked for examples of coaches bias, I think the reddit post highlights that rather well.

Oliver has been a prolific ball winner for years and years but he butchers the ball and doesn't kick goals. He's never been and likely never will be an ultra impactful player like Bontempelli or Dusty, sure he may be extremely consistent but half the games he plays he racks up meaningless stats with little impact just like Jack Macrae did for half a decade.

He may have a trophy cabinet that many would envy but there's a reason why there's people on the Melbourne board continuously arguing about whether you play better with or without Oliver. Think anyone at the Bulldogs or Richmond has ever considered whether they are better off without Bont or Dusty?

 

[Trav 20]

You asked for examples of coaches bias, I think the reddit post highlights that rather well.

Oliver has been a prolific ball winner for years and years but he butchers the ball and doesn't kick goals. He's never been and likely never will be an ultra impactful player like Bontempelli or Dusty, sure he may be extremely consistent but half the games he plays he racks up meaningless stats with little impact just like Jack Macrae did for half a decade.

He may have a trophy cabinet that many would envy but there's a reason why there's people on the Melbourne board continuously arguing about whether you play better with or without Oliver. Think anyone at the Bulldogs or Richmond has ever considered whether they are better off without Bont or Dusty?

Clearly, I disagree with you re Oliver's impact.

Also, I note in the link you shared from 3 years ago that Oliver received votes 14 times from opposition coaches, which was the highest of any player, and the discrepancy of +3 (17-14) was less than many others. There were examples of +4 (Walsh among others), +5, +6 (Miller) and even +8 (Petracca).

One season with a discrepancy of 17-14 doesn't prove bias to Oliver. But it may be that coaches tend to favour their own players.

I note Melbourne won the flag in the year you've linked and Oliver won the B&F.

 

[danster168]

You asked for examples of coaches bias, I think the reddit post highlights that rather well.

Oliver has been a prolific ball winner for years and years but he butchers the ball and doesn't kick goals. He's never been and likely never will be an ultra impactful player like Bontempelli or Dusty, sure he may be extremely consistent but half the games he plays he racks up meaningless stats with little impact just like Jack Macrae did for half a decade.

He may have a trophy cabinet that many would envy but there's a reason why there's people on the Melbourne board continuously arguing about whether you play better with or without Oliver. Think anyone at the Bulldogs or Richmond has ever considered whether they are better off without Bont or Dusty?

meaningless stats? like clearances? the guy wins the hard footy.

If won meaningless touches I don't think the coaches would rate him as the most impactful player in the game 2 years in a row lol.

Dusty and Bont are not as good at winning the contested ball as Oliver. That's just a fact and all the stats back that up.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

meaningless stats? like clearances? the guy wins the hard footy.

If won meaningless touches I don't think the coaches would rate him as the most impactful player in the game 2 years in a row lol.

Dusty and Bont are not as good at winning the contested ball as Oliver. That's just a fact and all the stats back that up.

Why is it a constant debate amongst Dees fans at the moment whether ur better with Clarry or not? Don't tell me it's not because he butchers the ball, because everyone knows it is.

 

[danster168]

Why is it a constant debate amongst Dees fans at the moment whether ur better with Clarry or not? Don't tell me it's not because he butchers the ball, because everyone knows it is.

He doesn't. No more than Petracca. It's not a constant debate. The only debate that dees fans are having is 'Will Oliver go down as the greatest demon of all time'. They're the conversations.

And why are you even talking about kicking, Cripps and Oliver have averaged the same disposal efficiency the last 4 years lol. And now Cripps isn't even kicking goals so there's really nothing left in Cripps' kit back.

Oliver is more consistent, wins more clearances, more contested ball, more uncontested ball, more tackles, more metres gained, hasn't choked in a final, is faster, far better lateral movement, better defensively, more inside 50's. anything else?

Cripps is taller...?

 

[Trav 20]

Why is it a constant debate amongst Dees fans at the moment whether ur better with Clarry or not? Don't tell me it's not because he butchers the ball, because everyone knows it is.

I haven't read that, but there are idiots in every supporter base.

Oliver is the best handballer I've ever seen at Melbourne and in the best few contested footballers and best groundball-get footballers I've ever seen in the VFL/AFL era.

He's an extraordinary player.

To limit him as a ball butcher is incredibly obtuse.

 

[danster168]

WalshistheGOAT

Care to comment on your Cripps comments last season:
"I'm a believer in Dow too but I see him a completely different way. I've watched most of his games in the VFL over the years and in my opinion he's just never going to have the opportunity at Carlton so long as Cripps is here because they have the exact same characteristics as footballers. Both ordinary defensively around stoppage, both terrible in transition defence and both handball first footballers with limited versatility. They are outstanding go to clearance players but lack in many other areas of the game.

Unfortunately for Dow, Cripps is just a better player and that's the simple truth. Our midfield is built around him, rightly or wrongly (I'm of the opinion it would be better built around Walsh but each to their own) where everyone else plays cover for Cripps".

Your secrets are safe with me mate. you know we think alike. You post your real thoughts on the carlton board and then defend Cripps for no reason in this thread. But respect, you analysed Cripps here perfectly. Slow and horrible defensively but a good clearance player. Don't compare him to Oliver who is lightning across the field and elite defensively.

 

[T2B_]

I think it's pretty obvious by now that danny boy is actually Clayton Oliver

13

Clayton Oliver

Age

26

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.8

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

18.4

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

6.3

5star

CL

6.3

5star

D

25.1

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

19.2

5star

K

4.6

2star

HB

14.6

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

3.8

5star

. I mean, we know Clarry is enough of a turkey that pumping himself up on BigFooty is absolutely not beyond the question.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

WalshistheGOAT

Care to comment on your Cripps comments last season:
"I'm a believer in Dow too but I see him a completely different way. I've watched most of his games in the VFL over the years and in my opinion he's just never going to have the opportunity at Carlton so long as Cripps is here because they have the exact same characteristics as footballers. Both ordinary defensively around stoppage, both terrible in transition defence and both handball first footballers with limited versatility. They are outstanding go to clearance players but lack in many other areas of the game.

Unfortunately for Dow, Cripps is just a better player and that's the simple truth. Our midfield is built around him, rightly or wrongly (I'm of the opinion it would be better built around Walsh but each to their own) where everyone else plays cover for Cripps".

Your secrets are safe with me mate. you know we think alike. You post your real thoughts on the carlton board and then defend Cripps for no reason in this thread. But respect, you analysed Cripps here perfectly. Slow and horrible defensively but a good clearance player. Don't compare him to Oliver who is lightning across the field and elite defensively.

Even with all the bolded I'll still take Cripps. Clarry looks like his off season was rampaging through all of Melbournes KFC franchises until they ran out of chicken to give him.

 

[danster168]

Even with all the bolded I'll still take Cripps. Clarry looks like his off season was rampaging through all of Melbournes KFC franchises until they ran out of chicken to give him.

I dont disagree regarding Oliver this pre-season which is why it'd be extremely embarassing if Cripps doesn't finally beat Oliver in the Coaches votes. Imagine if he can't beat Oliver who has had a pre-season doing no training and God knows what else and probably won't play the opening couple of rounds. just imagine

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I dont disagree regarding Oliver this pre-season which is why it'd be extremely embarassing if Cripps doesn't finally beat Oliver in the Coaches votes. Imagine if he can't beat Oliver who has had a pre-season doing no training and God knows what else and probably won't play the opening couple of rounds. just imagine

Really wouldnt be embarrassed at all. Regardless of what he does this year, Walsh and Cerra are the ones who will take our midfield up a level this season. Cripps is there to play his role and lead the troops as captain with the team stacked around him.

 

[bradfisher14]

danster168 you really need to touch some grass mate. I'm worried about you.

 

[Bulldog1954]

At the moment you'd have to take Cripps with Oliver off the rails. But hard to get out of my mind Cripps taking short steps a couple of times in a prelim final.

 

[RAPPA]

I'll have what Clarry's on

 

[Toump Ass]

Now that we have confirmation that Clayton Oliver

13

Clayton Oliver

Age

26

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.8

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

18.4

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

6.3

5star

CL

6.3

5star

D

25.1

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

19.2

5star

K

4.6

2star

HB

14.6

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

3.8

5star

has been winning All Australians selections, premierships, and regularly being selected as the best and most important player as voted by the coaches WHILE being a drug addicted car-keying degenerate, you have to say, clean and sober Clarry might have the potential to be one of the greatest players ever seen.

Clearly ahead of anyone at Carlton. Still.

 

[Toump Ass]

I'll have what Clarry's on

Have spoken to Joel and he is out of stock sorry. Ask again in three years.

 

[danster168]

Just imagine when Oliver beats Cripps again in the coaches votes again despite having no preseason, being grossly out of shape and simply not even caring about footy. Hilarious. Still faster than plodder Cripps

 

[ItzAlex]

Just imagine when Oliver beats Cripps again in the coaches votes again despite having no preseason, being grossly out of shape and simply not even caring about footy. Hilarious. Still faster than plodder Cripps
View attachment 1919151
View attachment 1919153

Do you have anything else better to do with your day than live through a single player and post bait comments in a big footy forum?

I think it’s time to look at yourself in the mirror and you might just see Clayton Oliver ain’t the only one grossly out of shape.

 

[danster168]

Do you have anything else better to do with your day than live through a single player and post bait comments in a big footy forum?

I think it’s time to look at yourself in the mirror and you might just see Clayton Oliver ain’t the only one grossly out of shape.

what's the connection between Bigfooty posts and skinfolds? I'm actually in great shape, so no idea what you're banging on about. This is the Oliver versus Cripps thread.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Danster rn

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Christ I just saw Clarry's stats for the night on Fox Footy... Just proves he's an empty stat gathering king. He was utterly putrid tonight, genuine liability out there.