Opinion Development Season???

[PieNSauce]

Ok, I know it's way early to be making such speculation so please don't shoot me down. This is just by way of looking at the situation realistically and seeing what might happen.

The reality is that with the horror run of pre-season injuries and the addition of further casualties in the past couple of weeks I think it is fair to say that it could be a long way into the season before the Pies can not only field something approaching our best 22 but have them running into any sort of form. Of course that is assuming we don't continue to suffer serious injuries to key players. If we were to lose Pendles, Cloke, Jolly or one or two others in that time it could well and truly turn into your worst nightmare.

Initially I saw the playing of kids as a bonus so that come years end we would have some games into them and some ready-made replacements for the odd injury here and there but the way it's going we will be playing way too many at the same time and we saw how good that went against the Hawks and the Tigs not to mention the scum.

At this stage I'd have to say that the situation has me more than a little worried about our 2012 chances although I'm aware that it can turn around pretty quickly and I'm hoping it does. It's just as possible that we could come with a huge late run but I think it is worth looking at it for what it is at the moment. It's not pleasant and suffice to say it's probably the worst run of injuries we've had in quite a few seasons.

I'm not reading too much into the poor form of some of our stars because I'm banking on the sports science department to be timing our run but that can be thrown into total disarray if you don't win enough games early. You have to remember that getting players back from injury doesn't necessarily put you back into winning mode if those players can't hit form immediately. Let's be fair, players coming back from 4+ week lay-offs rarely hit the note from game 1.

Thoughts? (and again... it's just for discussion... not necessarily where I think it's going to go so don't take it as conceding our season.)

 

[half_back_flank]

Sorry mate but that title is a huge overreaction and i'm not even sure what point you're trying to make.

We have 5 months to get our best team on the park and if they are inform and match fit, I'll back us to give it a shake from outside the top four if need be.

 

[esc0bar]

This is such a ridiculous post i don't feel it deserves a reply. You will get one anyway but in shortened form.

It's round 3
We only have 2 long term injuries
So many players to come back
Look at Hawthorn same time last year

 

[PieNSauce]

This is such a ridiculous post i don't feel it deserves a reply. You will get one anyway but in shortened form.

It's round 3
We only have 2 long term injuries
So many players to come back
Look at Hawthorn same time last year

We have been missing plenty of players for plenty of weeks. We now have Brown trying to return to form in the VFL, Didak doing the same along with Johnno. We have lost Macaffer and Krak for the season and now we have lost Tarrant, Reid and Ball for god knows how long. Have you even watched any footy this year?

 

[Jelly Bean]

We are forced to play kids anyway given the nature of our injury list.

To be honest, we don't really have too many talented kids in the magoos who would really benefit from seniors time anyway - i.e. none of them are certainties to get 100 games, most are just battlers trying to break into the lineup.

That is what happens when you trade away first rounders year after year.

 

[Jedi01]

If we can get the back-line settled a few months out from finals I would be extremely confident heading into them.

That's assuming by this time Swan and Thomas have found some form and Ball is back.

 

[PieNSauce]

Good to see that some here have read the OP rather than just the thread title. Remember that this thread is just put up for discussion. Nobody is conceding our season at this point. On the contrary, while I guess it's fair to say that the more pessimistic side of me probably came up with it I am generally fairly optimistic but realistic enough to know that Collingwood would not be the first side to have a promising season derailed by injuries if that was to happen.

Realistically, I am just as aware that things could look a whole lot better if we can take some points and avoid injuries in the next few weeks.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

To be honest, we don't really have too many talented kids in the magoos who would really benefit from seniors time anyway - i.e. none of them are certainties to get 100 games, most are just battlers trying to break into the lineup.

This.

Who are these players in such dire need of development in the seniors? I think Seedsman, Rounds, Paine, Keeffe... those guys should be getting a fair number of games anyway.

Josh Thomas would be great but he is Tom Davidson/Lee Walker all over again. Buckley is not up to it. Ceglar/Witts/Sinclair/Gault/Hartley not ready yet.

Yagmoor, Ugle, Young and Marley Williams maybe? I think we'll just keep going along the current path.

 

[TradeDraft]

It's been 3 Games. We can still easily make Top 4 if we can get back to playing Footy with Confidence

 

[Ed D]

This.

Who are these players in such dire need of development in the seniors? I think Seedsman, Rounds, Paine, Keeffe... those guys should be getting a fair number of games anyway.

Josh Thomas would be great but he is Tom Davidson/Lee Walker all over again. Buckley is not up to it. Ceglar/Witts/Sinclair/Gault/Hartley not ready yet.

Yagmoor, Ugle, Young and Marley Williams maybe? I think we'll just keep going along the current path.

I agree. There is no point giving games to players who aren't ready for it, and the ones who are will be getting games anyway.

 

[SuperSub17]

I for one am a little worried, but thank christ we have a reasonable draw over the next month. We should beat Port, Dogs and Brisbane, and also probably Essendon. That puts us at 5-2, with still games against GC and Melbourne before the bye.

The draw gets tough in the second half, but we should have most if not all of our players back and running into some form.

If we lose to Port that's when I'll be concerned.

 

[Pies_10]

This is such a ridiculous post i don't feel it deserves a reply. You will get one anyway but in shortened form.

It's round 3
We only have 4 long term injuries
So many players to come back
Look at Hawthorn same time last year

Fixed

 

[Raymond Rougeau]

Op is talking sense I think this has just drifted out on us.... May as well get some games in at this rate we can prepare maybe for the future and fix our depth crisis

 

[blaze036]

i think the best thing we can do for the rest of this season is get a gaff and darling at the end of it... and have a serious tilt in 2013 with ball krak macaffer

 

[PieNSauce]

Having read a lot of the negativity on our board since Friday I'm almost regretting having posted this thread but at least there are some out there who are able to see it as a reality check rather than some put down on the club.

As far as I'm concerned, the club will be fine. If we are forced into development mode as a result of injuries then so be it. If we develop a few kids into best 22 players by season's end as a result then we would go into 2013 with heaps of depth as we did in 2010 and I would find it hard to see too many negatives in that.

Anyway, it's early days and I'm hoping that the injury toll starts to subside so that we can at least have a crack this year. The indication from Eddie's rant about Pie fans is that there are more injuries than we know about. Hopefully these are just little niggles and will be overcome in short order.

 

[Pera]

Not really worried in all honesty.

Think we are one of the rare teams that can win a GF from 5th or 6th on the ladder. It'd make it tough but if we get a fit and firing 22 come finals time, I still think we can beat anyone on our day.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

So let's say we have a pick at the edge of the top 10 (and no-one bids a first rounder on Stewart). What position do we target?

 

[loki04]

So let's say we have a pick at the edge of the top 10 (and no-one bids a first rounder on Stewart). What position do we target?

Classy pacey midfielder.

I believe Sidebottom and Beams can fill the inside role long term but we lack genuine pace on the outside and silk kicking skills in the guts.

Stewart is KP, Hartley looks good at FB and we also have Brown, Reid AA CHB and Cloke AA CHF.

Our spine is fine we need genuine midfielder not a HFF/HFB turned into a mid when he gets to the club.

 

[Bay Pie]

That is what happens when you trade away first rounders year after year.

I haven't written off Ceglar (ruckman who'll take time to develop) or Jamie Elliott yet. I'm confused why so many people have no faith in 2 guys who haven't played a game of AFL and only a handful of or no VFL games.

We traded our picks in 2009 and got us a premiership with Jolly and Ball. Youngsters received from pick 25 (not your normal 1st round pick) from 2010 & 2011 need time and a chance.

I think many have been quite harsh in this thread. The OP clearly states he isn't writing the season off, but offered another angle. What is wrong with discussing that?

I rarely delve into the negativity that overcomes Pie supporters on occasions but have been thinking some similar thoughts of late.

New gameplan, new coaching staff, massive injury toll and bloody tough draw. I still think we will make the 8. We should be 8/3 or 7/4 at the bye. Making top 4 will be very difficult from here purely because we have a significantly harder fixture then those also vying for the top 4.

Personally I'd rather miss the 8 then limp in with little to no chance of winning it all. Missing the 8 gives us a top 10 pick in the supposed superdraft and we can reload. Making the 8 and getting beaten in the 1st few weeks moves us up to around mid to late teens. From reports James Stewart is looking a 15 to 25 type pick. Getting an earlyish pick means Stewart becomes a 2nd rounder. When Hine has had early picks, he nailed all bar one.

2004 Chris Egan (10) bust
2005 Daisy (2), Pendles (5) guns
2006 Reidy (8), Nate Brown (10) key defensive cornerstones
2008 Sidey (11) big game player

2010 Ceglar (25) traded in
2011 Elliott (25) traded in

I'm really hoping we get a good look at Jamie Elliott. He looks to have something we are severely lacking. Ceglar will take time.

 

[Knightmare]

We should no doubt introduce some new players into the senior squad at various stages this season.

But we absolutely should not tank the season under any circumstance. Players play to play finals footy. You play your best squad playing and you don't keep high level senior players who are producing in the VFL just so you can play some kids who may/ may not make the grade.

Travis Cloke will not want to sign if we miss the finals and look to be declining under our new first year coach.
What's more important Travis Cloke or moving up the draft a couple of selections?

The aim with our injury situation and hard draw needs to be make the top 8 no matter what and continue to push for a top 4 position if at all possible. Anything short of a top 8 position will be a season lost. Period.

There is also the Nathan Buckley factor. How bad would it look for the guy if we missed the finals after making the grand final the past 2 seasons? We have a young list and injuries or not his coaching credentials will come under question which just is not a situation you want to get into.

 

[PieNSauce]

Regardless of whether you would call this a "development season" as such, the addition of Benny Johnson to the players box on match days is not something I wanted to hear. Development is something we are being forced into and so far not doing too bad with it. I still hold out hope that we will get somewhere near the sort of form that we found at least in the 2010 H+A season as long as there are no more additions to that club. If that happens then we are still in contention.

The good news in the meanwhile is that development wise we have found what could wind up being one of the finds of the year in Lachie Keeffe and Ben Sinclair has started to repay Bucks' faith in him. I'm a bit unsure once I start looking further down the list than that but at least we should get a couple of guys back in the next 2 weeks.

My main fear at the moment is how top-heavy we seem to be at the back and the loss of Benny only adds to that. I can see a backline reshuffle coming with one or two of our tall backs pursuing a career in the forward line or as a genuine 2nd ruck coming off the bench. I hope some of our mids don't mind "resting" in the backline a bit more.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I am not prepared to call this a development season until we lose the likes of Cloke, Reid ad/or one of our main mid-fielders. Much of the interest in following a team is wanting to win a premiership, and to give up believing will only make the rest of the season seem an anti-climax. There is always the chance too that other teams will lose good players through injury and even up the competition, just as West Coast are doing with their losses.

 

[PieNSauce]

I am not prepared to call this a development season until we lose the likes of Cloke, Reid ad/or one of our main mid-fielders. Much of the interest in following a team is wanting to win a premiership, and to give up believing will only make the rest of the season seem an anti-climax. There is always the chance too that other teams will lose good players through injury and even up the competition, just as West Coast are doing with their losses.

Totally agree and when I started this thread that's exactly what I was thinking. The thing that's been concerning me a bit since then is that we seem not to have switched on this year for more than a quarter at a time. I was pretty gutted that we didn't do a particularly good job on the Bulldogs last week but I still hold out hope that the mojo will return soon.

Where I come unstuck a bit is when I see our number 1 inside mid sitting out the season along with all the x-factor that Krak gave us, Leon's rapier passes from FB and the intimidation factor of Brown. That leaves some pretty big holes to fill when you've got so many other short and mid term injuries on top.

As I said, still fairly optimistic but we will need to start showing a bit in the next 2+ weeks if we're going to have a serious crack this year.

 

[Scodog10]

I'd say it's a season of transition rather than development. It just feels like its one step forward two steps back ATM. We start to get a few players back from injury string some wins together then put in an average performance with a serious injury to boot.

It just comes across like things are unlikely to fully click this year, however the bonus is that if the kids are good enough we'll be able to pump some games into them while staying competitive and pushing for top 4. 4 LTI to best 22 players on top of doubts on Tarrant isn't a great platform to launch a premiership tilt from.

Just my two cents on the first rounder if our hand isn't forced with Stewart. I'd love a natural ball winner preferably over 185cm. Basically someone that just gets the ball with ease your Rockliff, Swan and Thompson types. We don't have anyone of that ilk in the reserves so he'd be given plenty of opportunities to develop until a spot opens up in the seniors.

Vlastuin or Haynes would be my hope but a lot of water needs to go under the bridge before we get to specific players.

 

[MarkT2]

Momentum is an important consideration in deciding premiers. We gave it Geelong on a platter last year as we strated to lose it following from some suspensions. In 2010 we had it for the second half of the season. We lost to Geelong & St Kilda in the first half of the year as well as Brisbane. This year we have lost to Carlton and Hawthorn who are on a par with St Kilda & Geelong of 2010. Early in 2010 Ried was speculative, Brown did even make the side until Presti got injured and Sidebottom was a teenager.

As it stands right now we ahve to be aiming to win the flag with everything we have. We obvioulsy need to settle the side and then gain momentum but it is far from impossible. We will get Jolly, Thomas and Didak back and from there is is fine tuning the line-up for a serious tilt at the last 10 games leading into the finals.

If we can get real momentum we will be a big chance. If we call it a development year we might never get as good a chance to win a flag. Woknows whether we will have Cloke after 2012. Who knows who will get injured or retire early. I am not even sure the players we would develop are actually going to be good enough anyway. We don't have a bloke that kicked 10 in an TAC GF or a pick 2 & 5 in the wings. We didn't add an AA quality player or 2 to the list this year.

Now is the time to win a flag and later is for Derek Hine to work on.