Does salary cap really even the competition?

Hawk Dork

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Feb 9, 2005
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You got to laugh when people say we can’t afford to pay Grundy what he wants.
Cotchin
Martin
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Riewoldt
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Lynch
All should be on more than our highest paid.
Do the Maths on GillWS

Tiges have 2 millionaires Lynch and Dusty and a few that are close


GillWS would have maybe 5 or more Gillionaires and lots on very close too it
 

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BrissyCrow

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I am one to freely admit I hate how the National competition is managed/ setup.

Its obvious that most of the players want to play in a Victorian team. They will take less salary to stay. That could mean massive savings. As a city Adelaide just doesnt seem to be attractive. With only two teams players are really scrutinised. So if we want to hold onto our players they either need to be SA players OR we have to pay overs when compared to what most of the Vic clubs have to pay. I'll bet that the combined salary of our bottom 20 players is significantly lower than what the clubs in Vic would be paying their bottom 20 players. $100K per player soon adds up to $2mill. Would be interesting to see if my estimations are correct.

We will always have the threat hanging over us that unless we pay overs we will lose players. I wonder what is happening at Port. they seem to be struggling to even pay their players.

Our rebirth will be slow. As a Glenelg supporter I think I am used to having to wait for success so if we struggle for the few years its fine so long as the club improves in all areas. Hope the review can shorten how long we are going to be out of finals contention.
 

Mego Red

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That makes no sense, because your answer doesn’t discuss how payments are structured within that list.

Since your usual method of discussion is to bang on about something regardless of evidence until everyone is frustrated by your refusal to acknowledge competing points of view or indeed reality, please be careful with any subsequent posting.
Holy shit, that second paragraph is the best thing I've read on BigFooty this year.
 

GROTTO

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That makes no sense, because your answer doesn’t discuss how payments are structured within that list.

Since your usual method of discussion is to bang on about something regardless of evidence until everyone is frustrated by your refusal to acknowledge competing points of view or indeed reality, please be careful with any subsequent posting.
 

Southerntakeover

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I think the fact that clubs have a “minimum spend” no matter the strength of their list certainly blurs the lines.
The minimum spend is too high. It effectively cripples the cap. It means that the difference between what bottom teams can offer, and top, is not great enough to overcome the desirability of, you know, not being on a shit team.
 

Crowked

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I’d be interested to know how much the AFL invest in the development leagues in each state. On the surface it seems the Victorian U18 league get it all. Unless the AFL make an effort to balance the origin of players entering the competition, there will always be the massive over representation of Victorian players.
 

Red mist

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Watching richmonds tom lynch play in a premiership team with richmond makes me think does the salary cap really do anything to even up the competition. How easy it a decision for lynch to leave a bottom side and pick a premiership team.

Why is it every time a big name player wants to leave a club they are always linked to a top club like richmond,geelong or collingwood? Surely these clubs would be tight in the salary cap unless a lot of players are playing for less money.

I think personally what happens is the bottom 8 or so clubs (in particular interstate sides) are forced to over pay/over contract players resulting in the rest of the list become weaker. No doubt that has happened to us with us over contracting jenkins,sloane,lynch,gibbs etc. unless we do this players leave like greenwood,keath etc.
Yeah change the pay structure.
25 to 35% of your tpp running in the two is interesting.
 

ChilliP

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There's 3 key things people want from a Job. Money, Career progression and Location. The Salary and Soft cap restricts how much a single club can do for money, so if a someone in demand wants money they will need to regularly move to the club that can pay them what they want, this gives the Vic clubs an advantage because there are 10 clubs to choose from and someone can change club every year if they wanted without ever having to move. The same goes for career progression, someone can easily change clubs in victoria to one that is offering the role they are wanting to do without having to relocate.

So that leaves location, not always, but people generally want to live where they grew up, where their family and friends are, so the clubs with the largest population around them will have the most people to choose from. In Victoria that's about 630k people per club, in SA that's 800k per club, in WA that's 1.25m per club. QLD & NSW are much harder to work out because most of the state wants to work in other sports.

So the Salary and soft cap gives Vic Clubs an advantage through offering Money & Career progression and it gives the WA clubs an advantage through population.
 

John Who

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Watching richmonds tom lynch play in a premiership team with richmond makes me think does the salary cap really do anything to even up the competition. How easy it a decision for lynch to leave a bottom side and pick a premiership team.

Why is it every time a big name player wants to leave a club they are always linked to a top club like richmond,geelong or collingwood? Surely these clubs would be tight in the salary cap unless a lot of players are playing for less money.

I think personally what happens is the bottom 8 or so clubs (in particular interstate sides) are forced to over pay/over contract players resulting in the rest of the list become weaker. No doubt that has happened to us with us over contracting jenkins,sloane,lynch,gibbs etc. unless we do this players leave like greenwood,keath etc.
I think it’s great you started this conversation. The whole point of the salary cap (supposedly) is to weaken the current strongest teams and to allow the weaker teams to poach better players from other clubs.

The fact in the last 3 years, Richmond has now won 2 flags, and they appear to be actually getting stronger with the addition of Lynch, this is starting to make a mockery of the whole point of salary capping.

Exiting the Tigers this year, all I’ve heard so far from the media is Ellis leaving for some other club. Seeing that he’s a fringe player, the Tigers look to be remaining strong for the next 3-5 years.

The AFL needs to do more to even the competition, other than simply “salary capping” - which really doesn’t look like doing anything at all, to be honest. Either that, or they aren’t really interested in evening the competition but happy to pretend like they care.
 

Crowbots are dead

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There's 3 key things people want from a Job. Money, Career progression and Location. The Salary and Soft cap restricts how much a single club can do for money, so if a someone in demand wants money they will need to regularly move to the club that can pay them what they want, this gives the Vic clubs an advantage because there are 10 clubs to choose from and someone can change club every year if they wanted without ever having to move. The same goes for career progression, someone can easily change clubs in victoria to one that is offering the role they are wanting to do without having to relocate.

So that leaves location, not always, but people generally want to live where they grew up, where their family and friends are, so the clubs with the largest population around them will have the most people to choose from. In Victoria that's about 630k people per club, in SA that's 800k per club, in WA that's 1.25m per club. QLD & NSW are much harder to work out because most of the state wants to work in other sports.

So the Salary and soft cap gives Vic Clubs an advantage through offering Money & Career progression and it gives the WA clubs an advantage through population.
You also need to factor in the big city pull of Melbourne for interstate born players. That tilts location in Melbournes favour too. It’s very much a Vic centric competition and is getting more that way
 

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John Who

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From a player’s perspective, let’s look at it from an employee point of view (the club being the employer). What do most employers want in their jobs?
- maximal money (whenever possible)
- job security
- living out a passion (for AFL players - winning a premiership)
- working in a good environment (more statisfaction than frustration)
- ideally (but not necessarily) being close to home/family.

The salary capping in some ways, addresses the money and job security issue for the players, but often the ones who has the most power are the elite players or fringe players who have a point of difference. Home/family/happiness/winning premierships is heavily favouring the Victorian clubs, and this puts the non-Vic clubs at a distinct disadvantage. Particularly when most clubs have predominantly Victorians on their list.
 

Morning_Fog

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In theory, a salary cap would equalise the comp. In practice, it is very hard to police.

There have been a lot of recent examples which suggest to me that teams are gaming the cap to get advantages.
  • Buddy goes to premiership contender, Sydney on a massive 10 year deal
  • Triple premiership hawks somehow manage to add Lake, Frawley, Gibson, etc, without cap issues
  • Lynch to tigers

It would be very easy to police. Hand all files and player names to the ATO and have them investigate every player’s financial transactions.

If a player banked an extra $10,000 (for example) they would need to justify where it came from. A money trail helps keep people honest.
 

Rave Slave

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Posted this in the other thread. Just as appropriate here:

As much as I dislike them immensely, the eagles flag last year was truly remarkable. To overcome such a loaded competition deserves some serious accolades.

Unfortunately with Free Agency now in place the system will further perpetuate Victorian success and I really think it’s going to become even more glaringly apparent than it is now.

Think about it - Victoria has 90% of the AFL media opportunities. This level of exposure then has a flow on effect to external business opportunities.

As a result you can then be left with the following scenario:

*Player A plays for Adelaide

*He’s being offered 800k a year for 4 years to stick around.

*On top of this the club explains that players in his pay bracket earn on average 200k a year through endorsements and ‘non AFL related’ business affiliations

He now has a hefty 1 million dollar package on the table

*A large profile Vic club comes along and offers 650k a year for 4 years to player A

*While they’ve currently 150k a year short of what the AFC can offer the club shows that through media opportunities and external ‘non AFL related’ business opportunities, the players in his pay bracket are earning an extra 500k a year on top of what the salary cap reflects

Suddenly a guy that is being offered 150k less on the books is now making 150k more than he would to stay in Adelaide.

The Vic club wins

The player wins

The AFC loses

Even if you reverse the scenario, it’s much easier to retain a player in that environment with your only major poaching threats coming from - other vic teams.

The system remains

The Vic clubs win

The interstate clubs lose

Until you put in place mechanisms which either track all income and incorporate it into the cap (which the AFLPA will never allow)

OR

You give non Vic states an increased boost to the cap (which the big vic clubs will never allow) then you’ll keep seeing this.

It’s their game, It’s loaded in their favour and the reality is they’re just letting us participate for fun (so long as we don’t win anything)

It’s a cop out to say it’s the only reason we’re unsuccessful. It’s not - we’re a s**t show. It certainly makes for an uphill battle though.
 

Rave Slave

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It would be very easy to police. Hand all files and player names to the ATO and have them investigate every player’s financial transactions.

If a player banked an extra $10,000 (for example) they would need to justify where it came from. A money trail helps keep people honest.
Agreed except the AFLPA would have an aneurysm.
 

craig crowing

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Hats off to Richmond for their recruiting not only getting big fish but gems in Stack and Pickett in AFL marketing extra drafts.
But please don't even try to tell me that they are anywhere under the salary cap and why why is the AFL letting players just walk out of Gold Coast once they get to quality players like May and Lynch did this year as only real decent players and captains .
Like Prestia and OMeara etc when they were on top of their games.
This going to continue to happen with now Martin getting out of there and might as well give up on GC dream and abandon and let Richmond , Hawks and Geelong pick who they want then let rest go to other teams.
If you wanted to be cynic then have to think of Gotchin playing GF and then as poster stated the release of drug info on eve of West Coast final.
 

Fivel_79

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The two newest clubs basically acting as vic talent nurseries doesn’t help either.

I often wonder if this was raised/agreed upon at the Victoria Football “crisis” meeting a few years back.

Let them draft all the talent then pick the eyeballs out of them by trading in dead certainties instead of taking the risk of a bust at the draft table themselves.

The fact that neither WA club were within a bulls roar of the money/opportunities being thrown at Stephen Coniglio is damning and also concerning.

On top of that Brisbane for example pull Neale out of Freo, Cameron out of Adelaide... we’re doing the job for them! I am not saying don’t trade or target players from certain clubs but when was the last time a big name Victorian born player/free agent ignored the pull of his home state and moved to SA/WA/QLD or NSW?

Until the non-Victorian clubs start working together a bit more and sharing intel on retention strategies or how to attract the best coaches or administrators etc.... we’ll always be single clubs competing against a block.

I think it’s time all the non-Victorian clubs call a “crisis meeting” because it looks like it’s only going to get worse.. and the AFL don’t seem likely to acknowledge it at all until they can get Carlton, Melbourne, St.Kilda and Essendon a drought breaking flag or two!
 

BringbackWebb

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Fivel_79 you make a really good point, I think most people outside of Melbourne don't realise how much an us and them attitude exists in Melbourne when it comes to AFL, this game and competition exits for Melbournes' benefit clearly, to the detriment of the other clubs (slight mention to Geelong here who suffer to a lesser amount).

The football related industry is huge in Melbourne, lots of opportunities if you have a profile and a reasonable level of intelligence. The interstate opportunities just don't compare. Unfortunately this will always continue given the way the competition evolved in the first place. So every interstate premiership is a minor miracle when you think about it. And I agree there will be priorities abounding at the AFL trying to get the less successful Melbourne based clubs as much help as possible to win a premiership, clubs from Adelaide, huh?
 

craig crowing

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I often wonder if this was raised/agreed upon at the Victoria Football “crisis” meeting a few years back.

Let them draft all the talent then pick the eyeballs out of them by trading in dead certainties instead of taking the risk of a bust at the draft table themselves.

The fact that neither WA club were within a bulls roar of the money/opportunities being thrown at Stephen Coniglio is damning and also concerning.

On top of that Brisbane for example pull Neale out of Freo, Cameron out of Adelaide... we’re doing the job for them! I am not saying don’t trade or target players from certain clubs but when was the last time a big name Victorian born player/free agent ignored the pull of his home state and moved to SA/WA/QLD or NSW?

Until the non-Victorian clubs start working together a bit more and sharing intel on retention strategies or how to attract the best coaches or administrators etc.... we’ll always be single clubs competing against a block.

I think it’s time all the non-Victorian clubs call a “crisis meeting” because it looks like it’s only going to get worse.. and the AFL don’t seem likely to acknowledge it at all until they can get Carlton, Melbourne, St.Kilda and Essendon a drought breaking flag or two!
Surely clubs like we will be with salary room should just target some Richmond players and in our case one of many with real speed with a can't refuse offer .
All non Victorian clubs got to stand up to AFL and their love child clubs.
 

Bovo

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maybe the cap needs to be dynamic. Instead of getting first draft pick because you finished last. You also maybe get a bigger allowance for a period of time. Yes, it is crazy talk. No, I don’t do drugs. But I agree, something is not working

what about a cap free year one year only. See what happens
 

Geoffa32

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I think it is time player salaries are made public, like most professional athletes.

Without that info any real analysis in regards to his clubs use their salary is flawed.

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Ozzie

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I think it is time player salaries are made public, like most professional athletes.

Without that info any real analysis in regards to his clubs use their salary is flawed.

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This is long overdue. VFL House have been hiding for years.
Overseas this standard practise. We must have it bought in here.

Also as been pointed out many times the money Vic players get outside the club is astounding. Case in point: Current president of the AFLPA leaves us when we offered him more. Suddenly he is plastered in all sorts of media roles. Making so much money he builds another mansion.

So sick of the role Vic media whores play in all of this as well. They start a campaign to lure their favourite big name players back to the cesspit.

If the VFL House were serious they should have blocked C&&&on Bloos from getting Jack Martin for nothing. Proves GC are a feeder team.
 
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