GC & Carlton Given Priority Access to State League Players

[jooce8891]

Shane McAdam from Sturt is a borderline first rounder. Would be a very good addition to Carlton's forward flank or a very valuable commodity to on-trade to another club.

Kreuger at South Adelaide would be another very good addition who would help Carlton or the Suns almost immediately.

spot on, after seeing highlights from him, looks like a very exciting small forward which is an area which we are in desperate need of.

 

[jooce8891]

We've been waiting for McGovern to truly dominate or bust a game open but it's never eventuated.

ironically the game against carlton was probably his best? havent watched much of him so.

 

[faible]

And if these players can't establish themselves in struggling AFL teams, isn't it essentially just AFL-endorsed mature-age list clogging for short term gain? It could very well make the clubs less competitive long term.

There's plenty of VFL / WAFL / SANFL guys running around who have taken until their 20s to really show a lot, they don't necessarily have to be recently delisted AFL players.

Kelly, Ryan, Rioli, Guelfi are all state league players on their first go around in 2018, all have played plenty of senior games and would be a walk-up start in Carlton's best 22.

I can completely understand why Carlton would take an 18 year old with their second round pick this year, but that's not going to make them more competitive in 2019. Access to two state league players will. Imagine Cripps having Kelly to come in and help take the load off; that's exactly what this aims to accomplish.

I also don't know if they're being forced to take these players, is it just an option available to them if they wish to take it up, or are they now required to take two state league guys?

Throwing more first round draft picks at a team that has willingly traded out senior players, and upsetting the draft position of every other club, is a horrible solution. This is far more immediate, and far more palatable for the rest of the competition.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

I also don't know if they're being forced to take these players, is it just an option available to them if they wish to take it up, or are they now required to take two state league guys?

Yeah that's my big query. I thought it was optional, but the "you will not trade them" clause has me wondering.

If we're being forced to select them, surely our playing list gets extended by 2.

 

[TedDougChris]

He was mature for his age.

Bloody delusional if 18 year olds are now mature aged players...

 

[Ambrosia]

Bloody delusional if 18 year olds are now mature aged players...

At what point do they become mature age then?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

And if these players can't establish themselves in struggling AFL teams, isn't it essentially just AFL-endorsed mature-age list clogging for short term gain? It could very well make the clubs less competitive long term.

While I want to trial some mature aged players, I agree with this too. The benefit is not as clear as a PP might have been.

We have to work so much harder now and spend 2 second rounders to trade down and get a pick for McGovern if we still feel the need to do so.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I think you're underestimating how often highly rated mature age talent is available. In the past 4 drafts there has been plenty of mature age players taken in the top 40 of the draft .

Would love to see a list .

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Put it this way, if there are a couple of mature aged players other teams are looking at, we don't have to play the lottery as to whether they are worth using a mid second rounder or go for a draft slider. Remember after our second rounders, our next pick is a 4th rounder.

It is risk free for us, just a list spot and no second guessing on when to pounce.

However, if the quality really isn't there from our perspective, the AFL have actually forced us to select 2 players we don't want instead of a couple of names we may have been looking at in the draft.

They may have actually dictated our recruiting strategy against our will and made it worse for us.

Yes agree with this. They should either assist you if they think you need assistance, or not assist you if you they dont think you need it.

But setting rules telling you how to manage your list, where to source your players, and what age group you should target, is not assistance, its just the AFL being dictatorial.

 

[Ambrosia]

Would love to see a list .

Well last year alone there was Kelly, Fritsch and Ryan. In 2016 Long and Stewart with Hannan at 46.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Well last year alone there was Kelly, Fritsch and Ryan. In 2016 Long and Stewart with Hannan at 46.

Would love to see a full list (successes and otherwise)

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Throwing more first round draft picks at a team that has willingly traded out senior players, and upsetting the draft position of every other club, is a horrible solution. This is far more immediate, and far more palatable for the rest of the competition.

Can we please stop this line.

We didn't willingly trade many of our players at all.

Gibbs we wanted to keep. We dealt on his second attempt.

Henderson walked.

Yarran walked.

Tuohy got a better offer and asked to be traded. Maybe could have done more there.

Bell wanted to be traded on compassionate grounds.

Betts got a better offer and that was 5 years ago now. How far back do we want to go?

We pushed Menzel out but he was hardly a senior player and it was a good decision needed to get a host of 20-21 year olds in.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

Can we please stop this line.

We didn't willingly trade many of our players at all.

If you want to deal in facts, you've come to the wrong neighbourhood.

 

[Juddernaut08]

How did they load us up with PP's? We received one in 2003, one in 2008 (pick 17) and one in 2009. How many have the blues had over the years? We got out of the mess with clever trading and drafting including getting experienced bodies in to help the kids mature. We didnt have the mindset that we were entitled to a "gun" like you stated in your post.

Btw I think you'll find the Melbourne board has always been independent of the AFL and made independent decisions. They never made any appointments or paid for us to appoint any coaches.

Nice try at deflecting though, maybe get back to focusing on your club and how they can improve on field after 2 decades in the wilderness.

You've just answered your own question matey.

They gave you money to buy Roos and board appointments. You had to get their approval before those appointments. Call it what you will, you're an AFL-run club. Your success (if it ever happens) will be nearly as artificial as GWS and GC, the two other AFL-run clubs.

 

[Ambrosia]

Would love to see a full list (successes and otherwise)

Mature Age Top 40ish picks:

2014- Boekhurst, P. McKenna, M.McGovern

2015 - Morgan*, M.Adams

2016 - English*, B.Long, T.Stewart, Hannan

2017 - T. Kelly, L.Ryan, Fritsch,

*Overgager still playing 18s

 

[Demonic Ascent]

You've just answered your own question matey.

They gave you money to buy Roos and board appointments. You had to get their approval before those appointments. Call it what you will, you're an AFL-run club. Your success (if it ever happens) will be nearly as artificial as GWS and GC, the two other AFL-run clubs.

Keep crying mate, Carlton will realise they can't buy flags anymore and turn it around one of these decades.

 

[faible]

Can we please stop this line.

We didn't willingly trade many of our players at all.

Gibbs we wanted to keep. We dealt on his second attempt.

Henderson walked.

Yarran walked.

Tuohy got a better offer and asked to be traded. Maybe could have done more there.

Bell wanted to be traded on compassionate grounds.

Betts got a better offer and that was 5 years ago now. How far back do we want to go?

We pushed Menzel out but he was hardly a senior player and it was a good decision needed to get a host of 20-21 year olds in.

Aside from the above; there was a number of completely botched drafts.

Carlton being a basket case doesn't help the AFL, but the old priority pick system also disadvantaged other clubs because of Gold Coast or Carlton's mismanagement of their list.

This solution is far more immediate, and far more sensible. The only caveat is whether there's a requirement to take those state league players, or if it's just a completely optional additional ability to add two more players outside the draft order, thereby allowing Carlton to skip taking their picks in the late 40s and beyond.

 

[coryne]

Pick 1.

roflmao, keep dreaming .........

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Aside from the above; there was a number of completely botched drafts.

Carlton being a basket case doesn't help the AFL, but the old priority pick system also disadvantaged other clubs because of Gold Coast or Carlton's mismanagement of their list.

This solution is far more immediate, and far more sensible. The only caveat is whether there's a requirement to take those state league players, or if it's just a completely optional additional ability to add two more players outside the draft order, thereby allowing Carlton to skip taking their picks in the late 40s and beyond.

Botched drafts 2014 and earlier are all true (aside from Cripps). That's not getting rid of senior players deliberately though.

Every club can stuff up drafts and find themselves struggling, especially in a crowded Victorian market where you can't hide players from the gaze of other teams.

 

[30stm]

Probably AFL most sensible logics that happened this year.

S Hocking - “There’s that option (for the priority pick to be at the start of the first round) and an option around mature age players as well. Do you need to go to a priority pick scenario or can you potentially give them access to mature age talent?” Hocking told SEN’s Crunch Time in August.

“If you have a look at (Carlton and Gold Coast), that’s actually what they’re lacking. I’m not sure they need more (young) talent".

 

[Damon_3388]

Hodge types are not in abundance and we didn't have a Fagan to capitalise on that bond.

Wasn't Brendan Bolton an assistant coach at Hawthorn, before becoming Carlton's head coach? Couldn't leverage that past link to grab a senior ex-Hawk at all?

 

[TedDougChris]

At what point do they become mature age then?

Well it’s not a kid in his first year of nomination for the draft, is it ? Particularly when for nearly the entire Football season - he is 18.

I would have thought you are looking at a guy who is either 21+ and either not nominated before or been overlooked a few times, or has been on a list for a few years and then delisted. Sam Collins, Kieran Collins spring to mind...

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Wasn't Brendan Bolton an assistant coach at Hawthorn, before becoming Carlton's head coach? Couldn't leverage that past link to grab a senior ex-Hawk at all?

Apparently not. Hodge is the only one who went to a cellar dweller though and he retired. He and Fagan worked that out behind the scenes.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Keep crying mate, Carlton will realise they can't buy flags anymore and turn it around one of these decades.

And finally you concede you are an AFL-run club by not even engaging the discussion. Acceptance feels good doesn't it?

That's what you get for being a hypocrite matey. Pot. Kettle. Black.

Run along now.

 

[coryne]

1) Carlton come out and clearly state that they won't be asking for a PP
2) The media runs with the angle that Carlton desperately need to apply for a PP
3) The AFL states that they won't give Carlton a PP unless they apply for one, and convinces Carlton to apply for a PP
4) The AFL turns around and tells Carlton that they won't receive a PP because they already have enough "young talent" on the list
5) The Media runs the angle that Carlton were not successful in their bid for a PP, throwing our draft/trade plans into disarray ....

You have to love the AFL and the media. What a pathetic bunch of individuals .........


I also love how the AFL will "over-compensate" teams such as Melbourne (Frawley compensation), Geelong (Motlop compensation) and now the Suns (Lynch compensation) to manufacture desirable outcomes for some clubs yet pull this crap when it is Carlton which needs the assistance.

God even allowing Essendon to have the #1 selection in 2016 when they finished last due to most of their senior players being suspended for doping charges shows that the AFL are happy to engineer favourable outcomes if they benefit the AFL (Essendon should have received their 1st rd pick before the finalists in 2016 so they did not significantly "benefit" from fielding an artificially weak team due to the doping charges).

A situation where Carlton receives a PP which must be traded on for a mature player (such as MM), which is basically how they engineered the Cat's getting Ablett through the Motlop compensation, or the set up of a mini-draft such as that when the Giants came into the system, would have been a much better outcome ...........