GC & Carlton Given Priority Access to State League Players

[King Cripps]

Imagine working your arse off in the VFL while working full time, having a breakout year, having AFL clubs contact you... now you get told you’re going to Carlton. Poor bastards.

We still beat your mob this year

 

[Blues_Man]

Because it isn't just special assistance. IMO it's a tad bit unfair, but that was before I knew it would replace priority picks, which is actually the better outcome.



Same as above.

So you wet off a bit premature and made yourself look like a complete fool

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Indeed I am. As you said yourself you're pleased the club is being forced to go down this path!!

Carlton dont have a terrible list tbh and they are on the cusp of starting to build up from ground zero. I dont really see the point of them getting first dibs on mature age VFL talent because if identifying and drafting these players was so easy, they'd already be on an AFL list.

Brodie Mihocek for example was pick 22 in the rookie draft last year. Every club had many opportunities to draft him before Collingwood did, several times over. Not sure how a priority pick helps unless you manage to fluke a Tim Kelly which doesnt happen often.

Collingwood also passed over Mihocek until you took him with a low risk rookie pick. That's more of a fluke than Kelly who was tipped to go early.

I like late bloomers taken with lower picks. Low risk/high reward. I don't think every player is ready at 18 and we do focus too much on youth.

Taking a Kelly early in the 2nd round though, not something we should have done at this stage of our rebuild. Getting McAdam for free ... all over that shit.

I would have taken Hayden Schloithe last year and he would have been handy with our injuries. I'd much rather a player with no AFL experience or who has developed for a few years after being delisted at 20, than a recent delistee. Far more hungry and willing to be professional IMO. Ready made leaders too.

 

[Tas]

A tiny bit of thought and patience please.

Our talent is all 21 and under aside from Docherty and Cripps. What do you expect those kids to be doing?

Yes we had #1 picks in the past and could only make finals with them, but it's not as though you can look at out current age profile and believe we should be contending.

The current age profile and the current list structure is of Carlton's design, it is not like Carlton has had limited access to the talent pool. It isn't the kids fault that Carlton has botched their list management.

You lost Tuohy end of 2016 who was a decent quality player and got in Smedts as part of the trade who had amassed less than 40 games in 6 years at Geelong, delisted by Carlton at the end of 2017.

Lost Gibbs last year, ended up getting picks 10, 16 and a 2018 2nd round pick.

Taded pick 16 & 40 for Bulldogs picks 28, 30 and 2018 2nd round picks, used #28 on Kennedy from GWS, a 19 game 20 year old. Also picked up Lobbe from Port, Lang from Geelong and Mullett from North. Carlton has been replacing some seasoned veterans with another raw inexperienced young ex GWS player and a bunch of list cloggers. At least Brisbane took someone like Hodge last year who while he wont be there for very long, gives them some experience and a player who was of an exceptional standard in his prime.

Carlton is unwilling to invest in short-term mature players for the present, focusing all their resources on just young kids that get annihilated at AFL level without the support of mature players around them. Carlton could have easily picked some better quality mature free agents or traded some of those second round picks for good quality short-term players, particularly bigger bodied, harder types that will give more protection to younger players.

Carlton is where it is due to the choices they make, they shouldn't be compensated for making bad decision after bad decision. AFL should help Carlton out by making sure your list management personnel are fired.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Collingwood also passed over Mihocek until you took him with a low risk rookie pick. That's more of a fluke than Kelly who was tipped to go early.

I like late bloomers taken with lower picks. Low risk/high reward. I don't think every player is ready at 18 and we do focus too much on youth.

Taking a Kelly early in the 2nd round though, not something we should have done at this stage of our rebuild. Getting McAdam for free ... all over that shit.

I would have taken Hayden Schloithe last year and he would have been handy with our injuries. I'd much rather a player with no AFL experience or who has developed for a few years after being delisted at 20, than a recent delistee. Far more hungry and willing to be professional IMO. Ready made leaders too.

I referred to Kelly as a fluke BECAUSE it doenst happen very often, not because Geelong lucked out. As you well know every club had the chance to take him in previous seasons.

Dont know if you saw my edited post where I compared this to the free swing all clubs get with Delisted Free Agents. What Carlton has been handed is not much more than that unless by fluke theres another Kelly floating around and that Carlton can correctly identify him. Otherwise theres plenty of Mihoceks that dont require a priority pick.

 

[TedDougChris]

Not sure he'd be available to Carlton under this scheme as he may not have nominated in 2015 but English was 100% mature age.

He turned 19 a few weeks before he was drafted !!!

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

He turned 19 a few weeks before he was drafted !!!

He was mature for his age.

 

[99cents]

More players of State level quality. Just what both clubs really need!

State level players in current Geelong team:

Stewart
Kelly
Harry Taylor
Menegola
Abbott

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

State level players in current Geelong team:

Stewart
Kelly
Harry Taylor
Menegola
Abbott

How many of them required a priority pick to land? Most were taken late in the draft or via rookie draft. Any team can pick these players up if they are smart enough, without AFL assistance.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

This is a completely useless pick, effectively granting Carlton a 3rd or 4th round pick.. We already have tools to take these players should we want to. What has annoyed me the most, not that we didnt get the priority pick was that we said strongly that we didnt want or need it, the club looked strong backing in their process and list build... then someone within the AFL spoke with the club and let them know it was worth swallowing our pride and going to the AFL cap in hand begging for a pick.. The AFL made us look foolish, and just kicked us in the guts whilst we were already on our knees and are again the ridicule of the competition.

 

[jooce8891]

Apparently... according to the very salty Sam McClure in the last hour or so (who is Carlton’s mouthpiece)... the Mitch McGovern negotiations have gone too far now and Carlton can’t back out, they’ve committed, so they are going to now have to find another way to get Adelaide what they want..

Looks like it could get costly for the blues..

you're delusional if you think pick 1 is going to be a swap for mcgovern.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

haha this is rich coming from a supporter of the Melbourne Handouts.

The AFL not only loaded you up with PPs and quasi PPs, they ran your administration, appointed and paid for key appointments including your coach in Paul Roos.

You were so pathetic that you became an AFL-run club.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

How did they load us up with PP's? We received one in 2003, one in 2008 (pick 17) and one in 2009. How many have the blues had over the years? We got out of the mess with clever trading and drafting including getting experienced bodies in to help the kids mature. We didnt have the mindset that we were entitled to a "gun" like you stated in your post.

Btw I think you'll find the Melbourne board has always been independent of the AFL and made independent decisions. They never made any appointments or paid for us to appoint any coaches.

Nice try at deflecting though, maybe get back to focusing on your club and how they can improve on field after 2 decades in the wilderness.

 

[Ambrosia]

I referred to Kelly as a fluke BECAUSE it doenst happen very often, not because Geelong lucked out. As you well know every club had the chance to take him in previous seasons.

I think you're underestimating how often highly rated mature age talent is available. In the past 4 drafts there has been plenty of mature age players taken in the top 40 of the draft .

He turned 19 a few weeks before he was drafted !!!

If he nominated he would have been available in the 2015 draft. The McKay brothers are 4 months younger than him.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

Kelly and Mihocek would be pretty handy for Carlton right now..

There's a lot of people in this thread suddenly talking like every second player running around in the State leagues is a Kelly. It's just not true.

The other obvious thing to remember is that yes, Kelly has been great as a mature-age pickup, but he also had the luxury of going to a strong team with an absolute gun midfield. He had amazing support.

If Kelly had been recruited by Carlton I believe it would be a very different story. Whoever we pull from a State league is going to have a tremendously difficult time making it in AFL given where our list is at.

 

[faible]

Indeed I am. As you said yourself you're pleased the club is being forced to go down this path!!

Carlton dont have a terrible list tbh and they are on the cusp of starting to build up from ground zero. I dont really see the point of them getting first dibs on mature age VFL talent because if identifying and drafting these players was so easy, they'd already be on an AFL list.

Brodie Mihocek for example was pick 22 in the rookie draft last year. Every club had many opportunities to draft him before Collingwood did, several times over. Not sure how a priority pick helps unless you manage to fluke a Tim Kelly which doesnt happen often.

There is already opportunity for all clubs to pick for free, Delisted Free Agents. I really see this little benefit given to Carlton as a minor extension of that. Of some value but not a lot.

It's forcing Carlton (and GC) to take mature aged players who can come in and contribute immediately, instead of speculative young kids.

If either club has a pick inside the first 3 rounds, they're more likely to be using it on talented 18 years olds with upside instead of guys in their mid-20s who will stop them being a basket case in the short term, but are unlikely to be there for a premiership.

I think it's a good stop-gap option for making both clubs more competitive in 2019, without compromising the first round of the draft for other clubs, or giving Carlton / GC the option of just adding more kids.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Carlton fans whinging on the radio about free agency only helping the big clubs while the strugglers continue to struggle and the top teams stay at the top in perpetuity.

In the meantime we are looking at a fourth different premier in four years after two massive drought breaking premierships in the last two years. And on Saturday a team that has missed finals for the past four years will be playing whilst an ex player of theirs, signed as a FREE AGENT by Carlton, has extended his miserable career by one more year.

The facts dont stack up with the complaints. Every team can benefit from free agency if they are well run. Not sure if the Eagles have a free agent and our two are Wells and Mayne!!!

 

[King Cripps]

The current age profile and the current list structure is of Carlton's design, it is not like Carlton has had limited access to the talent pool. It isn't the kids fault that Carlton has botched their list management.

You lost Tuohy end of 2016 who was a decent quality player and got in Smedts as part of the trade who had amassed less than 40 games in 6 years at Geelong, delisted by Carlton at the end of 2017.

Lost Gibbs last year, ended up getting picks 10, 16 and a 2018 2nd round pick.

Taded pick 16 & 40 for Bulldogs picks 28, 30 and 2018 2nd round picks, used #28 on Kennedy from GWS, a 19 game 20 year old. Also picked up Lobbe from Port, Lang from Geelong and Mullett from North. Carlton has been replacing some seasoned veterans with another raw inexperienced young ex GWS player and a bunch of list cloggers. At least Brisbane took someone like Hodge last year who while he wont be there for very long, gives them some experience and a player who was of an exceptional standard in his prime.

Carlton is unwilling to invest in short-term mature players for the present, focusing all their resources on just young kids that get annihilated at AFL level without the support of mature players around them. Carlton could have easily picked some better quality mature free agents or traded some of those second round picks for good quality short-term players, particularly bigger bodied, harder types that will give more protection to younger players.

Carlton is where it is due to the choices they make, they shouldn't be compensated for making bad decision after bad decision. AFL should help Carlton out by making sure your list management personnel are fired.

You forget to mention we got Marchbank in the Tuohy trade and yes we have invested in the draft in the past 3 years like we said we were going to from the time SOS came to the club.
Unlike your mob we are building the blocks of the future for sustained success not by finishing 9th every year.

 

[99cents]

How many of them required a priority pick to land? Most were taken late in the draft or via rookie draft. Any team can pick these players up if they are smart enough, without AFL assistance.

True- my only point is I reckon there are plenty of players out there, for a good drafting/ developing club.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I referred to Kelly as a fluke BECAUSE it doenst happen very often, not because Geelong lucked out. As you well know every club had the chance to take him in previous seasons.

Dont know if you saw my edited post where I compared this to the free swing all clubs get with Delisted Free Agents. What Carlton has been handed is not much more than that unless by fluke theres another Kelly floating around and that Carlton can correctly identify him. Otherwise theres plenty of Mihoceks that dont require a priority pick.

Put it this way, if there are a couple of mature aged players other teams are looking at, we don't have to play the lottery as to whether they are worth using a mid second rounder or go for a draft slider. Remember after our second rounders, our next pick is a 4th rounder.

It is risk free for us, just a list spot and no second guessing on when to pounce.

However, if the quality really isn't there from our perspective, the AFL have actually forced us to select 2 players we don't want instead of a couple of names we may have been looking at in the draft.

They may have actually dictated our recruiting strategy against our will and made it worse for us.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

I think it's a good stop-gap option for making both clubs more competitive in 2019, without compromising the first round of the draft for other clubs, or giving Carlton / GC the option of just adding more kids.

And if these players can't establish themselves in struggling AFL teams, isn't it essentially just AFL-endorsed mature-age list clogging for short term gain? It could very well make the clubs less competitive long term.

 

[Bearded Clam]

you're delusional if you think pick 1 is going to be a swap for mcgovern.

I dont actually think a trade will be done with carlton... they arent going to have anything to give up that adelaide want.

I think the crows will simply say to carlton, this is what we want, if you cant provide it youll have to do some deals with other clubs to get it.. or mitch stays at adelaide or finds another club willing to deal with the crows for mitch.

 

[Jables]

I know jack about the Suns list tbh, but for Carlton it's better than nothing considering they need 23-27 year olds that can contribute rather than more top young talent even if that never hurts.

I don't really get it though seeing as they usually get ignored anyway? There's not always a Puopolo, Barlow, Kelly or Isaac Smith running around that's easy to spot.

 

[Bearded Clam]

State level players in current Geelong team:

Stewart
Kelly
Harry Taylor
Menegola
Abbott

Yep... every year there are some gems that slip through the cracks, end up in the state leagues and start building great careers.. you just need to find them.

 

[jooce8891]

The problem being is that carlton are hopeless at recognising talent so they will probably pick up another fail.

finding a diamond in the rough is bloody difficult... especially when you dont even know what diamonds looks like..

tom williamson, and harrison macreadie both say hi.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The current age profile and the current list structure is of Carlton's design, it is not like Carlton has had limited access to the talent pool. It isn't the kids fault that Carlton has botched their list management.

You lost Tuohy end of 2016 who was a decent quality player and got in Smedts as part of the trade who had amassed less than 40 games in 6 years at Geelong, delisted by Carlton at the end of 2017.

Lost Gibbs last year, ended up getting picks 10, 16 and a 2018 2nd round pick.

Taded pick 16 & 40 for Bulldogs picks 28, 30 and 2018 2nd round picks, used #28 on Kennedy from GWS, a 19 game 20 year old. Also picked up Lobbe from Port, Lang from Geelong and Mullett from North. Carlton has been replacing some seasoned veterans with another raw inexperienced young ex GWS player and a bunch of list cloggers. At least Brisbane took someone like Hodge last year who while he wont be there for very long, gives them some experience and a player who was of an exceptional standard in his prime.

Carlton is unwilling to invest in short-term mature players for the present, focusing all their resources on just young kids that get annihilated at AFL level without the support of mature players around them. Carlton could have easily picked some better quality mature free agents or traded some of those second round picks for good quality short-term players, particularly bigger bodied, harder types that will give more protection to younger players.

Carlton is where it is due to the choices they make, they shouldn't be compensated for making bad decision after bad decision. AFL should help Carlton out by making sure your list management personnel are fired.

A few points.

Most of the players that left wanted to go, we didn't get rid of them.

We didn't botch anything. We had to start again with limited quality after the Malthouse fiasco. We really made the most of that quality.

More journeyman with 2nd round draft picks would not have seen us do anything but float midtable for a year or so like we did in 2004.

Free agents have to want to come to us. So far, we have 1 and he came injured to be with Mick.

Hodge types are not in abundance and we didn't have a Fagan to capitalise on that bond.

Delisted free agents were nothing more than cheap VFL placeholders in case of injury. The fact we played them shows how bad our injury situation was. 3 experienced key defenders played about 22.games between them. The 2 inexperienced ones also copped injury. The small defenders missed 3 of their best 4 for all but a handful of games.

Those placeholders should have been helping the VFL youngsters instead of playing seniors.

Nothing wrong with the Kennedy pick up. Solid body to help Cripps, not a skinny 18 year old.