Review Good, Bad and Ugly vs Lions

[OccamsRazorRay]

Just did the quick mental arithmetic, since the start of 2023 we're 2-7 in games decided by a goal or less along with yesterday's draw.

Bad luck or something else?

We've had, and still have, a young developing side. You look at the teams we've come up against in those games and i guarantee they've got more experience on their side. As we develop we'll start to win more of those games. 2 years ago opposition teams would have kicked away at certain times of the game yesterday. We're staying in them

 

[OccamsRazorRay]

It's pointless playing him as a KPD, he didnt even really stand out at SANFL level in this role.
In his 3rd SANFL game they moved him up to HBF, with a license to run forward and he dominated. Play him in that role and I think we'll see promise.

That's exactly where he was played yesterday, off the HB

 

[Pugsley]

We've had, and still have, a young developing side. You look at the teams we've come up against in those games and i guarantee they've got more experience on their side. As we develop we'll start to win more of those games. 2 years ago opposition teams would have kicked away at certain times of the game yesterday. We're staying in them

5 years into a rebuild. Turn it up

 

[cmndstab]

Yup, not enough frustration in here for the sh***y inconsistent umpiring.

Umpiring was absolutely disgraceful and pathetic last night.

I'm sick of being dudded constantly AND in critical moments.

Time to get angry Crow fans.

I haven't gone back and looked at the replay, but at the time I was furious all match long. Just seemed like little decisions/non-decisions were going against us every play.

Might have just been emotion getting the better of me, but damn it felt like we were getting a raw deal at the time.

We ended up winning the free kick count 19-16 for whatever that's worth.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Good coaches would have chatted to him at the break and tried something different. Our coaches are clueless.

That suggests they were right to play him deep to begin with, but they had no logical basis or reason to do so, given the current skillset he’s shown at SANFL/AFL level

 

[Pugsley]

That suggests they were right to play him deep to begin with, but they had no logical basis or reason to do so, given the current skillset he’s shown at SANFL/AFL level

Chatting to him before subbing him out and then moving him into the midfield would be of an admission of them being wrong.

 

[GameofSloanes]

That's exactly where he was played yesterday, off the HB

No. He was played deep
The only time he looked good was 1 play on the wing

 

[1970crow]

No. I agree with most in regards to most players.

It's just the pack not noticing mchenrys/robs strengths and only focusing on their weaknesses that piss me off. This is probably robs wnd best season (behind 2020). Sure he is dropping the intercept marks which brings out the attacks on him. But besides that. Name 1 game this year, or heck last year where he was soundly beaten

...... watch someone name a game I didn't see (only the Melbourne game this year)

Basically ROB is just workhorse that is a very blunt instrument. He attends a lot of ruck contest, so wins lots of taps and even high raw numbers are to advantage. But he's actually 16th for hitout to advantage % from contests attended. I don't blame him entirely, it's not a coincidence that both our recent lead ruckmen thrived on continuity and huge workload. We simply don't know any other way or have any other options. As many have said, we don't get better by playing Strachan, all we do is hopefully send a rocket up ROB's butt to play more akin to how he played the game after being dropped last year. But apart from numbers driven directly by attending the most ruck contests, he provides very little else as a player.

Top 15

TOG - 2
Handball efficiency - 11
Uncontested possessions - 12 (leads to 25th for disposal efficiency)
Ruck contests - 1
Hitouts - 1
Hitout win % - 4
Hitouts to advantage - 1 (but 16th for hitout to advantage %)
Stoppage clearances - 10
Centre bounce attendances - 8

Below 15th. (for ease of reading, I reversed the negative stats, ie clangers)

Hitout to advantage 16​ Hitout to advantage % 16​ Disposals 17​ Centre clearance 18​ Tackles 19​ Intercepts 19​ Ground ball get 22​ Kick efficiency 23​ Metres gained/disposal 23​ Contested possessions 23​ Metres gained 25​ Intercept mark 25​ Disposal efficiency 26​ Marks 26​ Turnovers 29​ Contested mark 29​ Turnovers/disposal 30​ Disposals/clanger 31​ Clangers 34​

​

 

[rabidcrow]

Playing Curtin deep and accountable was dumb coaching, the sub was the reaction to his poor performance in that role

Assuming half back is where they are looking to start him Ah Chee was the bet match up he could get - not Hipwood, Daniher or Cameron, Lohmann is pretty quick too

It’s just Ah Chee beat him on the night - the lad seems to be a bit mentally slow out there at the moment. Fingers crossed we keep him in for a few weeks (or at least bring him back) for West Coast Hawks Richmond and allow him to find his feet.

Remembering Soligo also got dropped very early in his career and was bought back 5-6 weeks later


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[FullyBigKPro]

Basically ROB is just workhorse that is a very blunt instrument. He attends a lot of ruck contest, so wins lots of taps and even high raw numbers are to advantage. But he's actually 16th for hitout to advantage % from contests attended. I don't blame him entirely, it's not a coincidence that both our recent lead ruckmen thrived on continuity and huge workload. We simply don't know any other way or have any other options. As many have said, we don't get better by playing Strachan, all we do is hopefully send a rocket up ROB's butt to play more akin to how he played the game after being dropped last year. But apart from numbers driven directly by attending the most ruck contests, he provides very little else as a player.

Top 15

TOG - 2
Handball efficiency - 11
Uncontested possessions - 12 (leads to 25th for disposal efficiency)
Ruck contests - 1
Hitouts - 1
Hitout win % - 4
Hitouts to advantage - 1 (but 16th for hitout to advantage %)
Stoppage clearances - 10
Centre bounce attendances - 8

Below 15th. (for ease of reading, I reversed the negative stats, ie clangers)

Hitout to advantage 16​ Hitout to advantage % 16​ Disposals 17​ Centre clearance 18​ Tackles 19​ Intercepts 19​ Ground ball get 22​ Kick efficiency 23​ Metres gained/disposal 23​ Contested possessions 23​ Metres gained 25​ Intercept mark 25​ Disposal efficiency 26​ Marks 26​ Turnovers 29​ Contested mark 29​ Turnovers/disposal 30​ Disposals/clanger 31​ Clangers 34​

​

Yeah I really dont know what to make of ROB's game...

In the paper they gave him 2 votes and in teh best.

Watching live i thought he was getting soundly beaten by McInerney outside of a few OK marks.

I really hope we are on the lookout for a good long term Ruck option that we don't have to pay overs for. Ned Moyle and Goad could be options.

 

[rabidcrow]

Just did the quick mental arithmetic, since the start of 2023 we're 2-7 in games decided by a goal or less along with yesterday's draw.

Bad luck or something else?

We do have 3 apologies from the AFL in that time as well….


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[rabidcrow]

No. He was played deep
The only time he looked good was 1 play on the wing

Was that as much match up as opposed to positioning? He took there 4-5th major forward target.
And he couldn’t compete yet.

He will have learnt a lot


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[rabidcrow]

Yeah I really dont know what to make of ROB's game...

In the paper they gave him 2 votes and in teh best.

Watching live i thought he was getting soundly beaten by McInerney outside of a few OK marks.

I really hope we are on the lookout for a good long term Ruck option that we don't have to pay overs for. Ned Moyle and Goad could be options.

Don’t think he belonged in the best - but pretty well broke even with McInerney

15 touches to 14. 2 marks each.
Obviously low De%

Not a lot in it though


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[Disco Fox]

Assuming half back is where they are looking to start him Ah Chee was the bet match up he could get - not Hipwood, Daniher or Cameron, Lohmann is pretty quick too

It’s just Ah Chee beat him on the night - the lad seems to be a bit mentally slow out there at the moment. Fingers crossed we keep him in for a few weeks (or at least bring him back) for West Coast Hawks Richmond and allow him to find his feet.

Remembering Soligo also got dropped very early in his career and was bought back 5-6 weeks later


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If the coaches put him on Ah Chee then they are extremely unprofessional - Ah Chee's strongest attribute is SPEED & he's 15cm shorter than Curtin. He didn't stand a chance with such an unforgivable match-up. He's naturally not ready yet especially given his size but the coaching/selection panel must have known that. I don't think he will end up a defender.
Curtin's an excellent mark & superb kick - not surprisingly ground work is not one of his strengths, so I repeat - why on earth would they put him on Ah Chee.

 

[Bob Neil]

An early sub I could stomach if we were getting beaten and have to roll the dice

But we were a couple of points up

Was a needless risk and we got instantly burned by the Football Gods

It not only created the injury risk - which duly happened - but it also sacrificed what was possibly our greatest advantage at that point bring (relatively) fresh legs and the opportunity to run over the top of them.

In one fell swoop he botched it on both fronts.

 

[CrowFan77]

Good
Soligo
Fogarty
Sholl
Keays
Crouch
Dawson
Cook
Rankine

Bad
Laird
Rachele
Smith
Keane
Hinge

Ugly
Umpiring was pretty bad.
Nicks selections and sub options. Probably the difference in the game.

How can you list Crouch under "Good"? Absolutely stunk it up in the first half, shat the bed under pressure twice in the last quarter and less than 10 meters gained per disposal.

He had a VERY ordinary game.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Can anyone give me a single reason why Chayce Jones is better value to us on a wing rather than in defence?

Give his foot issues, reckon he would be best in defence at the moment & put the runners off a swing.

 

[DJ75]

As soon as I saw the sub, I knew Nicks had cooked it again. The man is an utter moron. He is incapable of planning.

Last week he finally picks a top end talent that was our first pick. He's one of the last top end picks to debut. He then subs him out at 3/4 time. He could have left him in the game - it would have made little difference to the game, but would have meant the world to the lad. Imagine the difference between the feeling of finishing your first game on the field, in a winning showdown and everything that came with it - and finishing on the bench, deflated.
Worse, it was a decision made pre-match. It was the plan all along. The stupidity is mind boggling.

Then this week, being too scared to tell Brodie Smith

33

Brodie Smith

Age

32

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.5

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.2

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

500.1

5star

D

17.1

4star

K

12.6

5star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

2.3

3star

MG

438.9

5star

D

17.2

5star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

3.6

5star

he is playing like trash and needs to find form, Nicks has to find a way to squeeze Smith into the defensive mix. What does he do? Move another kid who is developing really well, and showing signs of being a very good player to the sub vest. What a vote of confidence in Nank! Great job young fella, you are going well. Now sit on the bench while this broken down old guy takes your spot.
Oh and then we will sub out Curtin at half time, after watching him struggle one on one, but doing NOTHING to help him. Way to build confidence!

Nicks has managed, thanks to his blind devotion to a guy playing rubbish football, to negatively impact the confidence of two young talents.

What could have he done?

Pre-game - he could have left Smith out.

Or, given he's incapable of seeing the writing on the wall of older guys, he could have moved Jones off the wing and played Nank there. Jones has hardly been great. Jones could have been sub.

Or he could have moved Ned to sub, Jones to the Ned role (do we lose anything there?) and Nank to wing.

In game, with Curtin struggling one-on-one and our defence looking too tall, we could have swapped Curtin and Nank. Or moved Jones to defence and Curtin up field.

Anything but destroying confidence by subbing Curtin.

Now I have also read some suggestions Curtin's knee was no good. That is an ever greater worry if true. We drafted him what 7-8 months ago. If his knee is no good, why haven't we organised to fix it? Why is he hobbling around?

Meanwhile, we debut Curtin in a showdown, then play him against Brisbane, then what? Drop him? Don't give him a game at the MCG? Will we play him again then drop him - meaning his 3 game look at it was a showdown, Brisbane and Collingwood away (pretty tough stretch!)
Makes the decision not to play him against the Kangaroos all the more stupid.

When I look back on it, all I see is utter incompetence from our coaches.

 

[cmndstab]

Yeah I really dont know what to make of ROB's game...

In the paper they gave him 2 votes and in teh best.

Watching live i thought he was getting soundly beaten by McInerney outside of a few OK marks.

I really hope we are on the lookout for a good long term Ruck option that we don't have to pay overs for. Ned Moyle and Goad could be options.

I thought he was pretty good, outside of a couple of poor moments early in the game.

I wouldn't put him in the bests, but he was decent.

 

[arrowman]

I thought he was pretty good, outside of a couple of poor moments early in the game.

I wouldn't put him in the bests, but he was decent.

ROB right now doesn't bother me as much as the fact that we haven't got a replacement yet, and he turns 29 next year.

 

[Betts are off]

So does Worrell going down mean Curtin stays in now?

 

[cmndstab]

So does Worrell going down mean Curtin stays in now?

Barring injury, you'd have to think so. As much as it's annoying that they've pigeon-holed Curtin as a KPD, the one positive is that Borlase is the only remaining uninjured KPD we've got, so Curtin should stay in as long as his knee is good enough.

In fact, they may even decide to let him play in the more loose role than Worrell has been in, and hand off the pure stopper KPD role to Borlase.

 

[1970crow]

Can anyone give me a single reason why Chayce Jones is better value to us on a wing rather than in defence?

I would have thought Chayce to CC, Max to Ah Chee and Curtin to wing worth a look for half a quarter or so.

 

[1970crow]

Good:
When you are 3 goals down halfway through the last quarter, a draw is a win.
Sholl was great, got dangerous and he is really good on both sides of his body.
Dawson, so powerful out of stoppage in the last quarter
Fogarty, please play like that every week. Recorded as 2 contested marks, but felt more like 10. That goal to put us in front was brilliant.

Bad:
Good defenders intercept marking everything that goes into our forward line.
Himmelberg just couldn't engage Harris Andrews well enough, Tex got beaten, he has those issues with guys like Pearce, Balta etc.
Brisbanes disposal going inside 50 was way better than ours, almost no intercept marks. But we kept Cameron quiet at least.

Ugly:
It wasn't the amount of decisions, it was the stupid calls.
Dawson front on contact in the goal square, Lairds "throw" when we go on and score, Andrews just walking it out of bounds, Rachele front on contact with an open 50.... pivotal moments where we got dudded.

Worrells injury, hopefully only a fracture or something 4-6 weeks.

Curtin isn't ready, needs a good preseason.


PUT LAIRD BACK IN DEFENCE, PLEASE.

Lairds throw could barely have been more of a throw. Getting an outstretched finger to it is nowhere near the closed fist that’s required.

 

[1970crow]

It's pointless playing him as a KPD, he didnt even really stand out at SANFL level in this role.
In his 3rd SANFL game they moved him up to HBF, with a license to run forward and he dominated. Play him in that role and I think we'll see promise.

He wasn’t selected based upon deep defensive performance. No matter, that’s where we’ll play him at the highest level. Laughable if it wasn’t so stupid and sad.