Review Good, Bad and Ugly vs Lions

[SellarStardom]

If we drop Curtin he needs to be played in SANFL as a floating HB, wing or midfield absolutely NOT as a KPD.

Who cares if we lose

 

[Dirty Bird]

She is, but she's also one of those strange "I support all SA sports teams!" people I can never understand.

I mean
That used to be me.

Born in SA.
Moved to Vic at 1
Moved to NSW at 5
Moved back to SA at 18

Having lived with them, I hated them by 19.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Am I alone in thinking that the club has rushed Curtin into the AFL team before he was ready, succumbing to pressure from the public (mirrored here on BF)? He was hardly carving it up in the SANFL, and has struggled in the 2 AFL games he's played. Subbing him out may not have been popular, but was the right decision to make in both games.

Firstly - Shoosh. Independent thought isn't appreciated on this board.
Secondly - You probably are. He wasn't rushed into the team. He's just out of position and looks out of his depth. That's on a failure by our coaches.

But I expect a change in role this week now. And I feel it'll be more suited to him. I just hope he isn't pigeon holed into the role and we miss out on what I feel is his best position.

 

[spenze]

If we drop Curtin he needs to be played in SANFL as a floating HB, wing or midfield absolutely NOT as a KPD.

Who cares if we lose

Our coaching group think he will become a KPD.

Sure we moved up the draft to get a tall flanker with impeccable skills who could transition into the midfield but our coaches are certain he is a KPD.

Nothing good happens until a few coaches go

 

[Pugsley]

I mean
That used to be me.

Born in SA.
Moved to Vic at 1
Moved to NSW at 5
Moved back to SA at 18

Having lived with them, I hated them by 19.

This thread isn't about you.

 

[rabidcrow]

He’s moved to a new target since Fogarty is playing well?

“Struggled” against Port? Really?

He did look rushed in traffic, not unexpected given it was his debut

I think he would really benefit from playing some of the lesser teams so regardless of whether he is in or out this week hopefully we see him for the 3 weeks following


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[cmndstab]

Am I alone in thinking that the club has rushed Curtin into the AFL team before he was ready, succumbing to pressure from the public (mirrored here on BF)? He was hardly carving it up in the SANFL, and has struggled in the 2 AFL games he's played. Subbing him out may not have been popular, but was the right decision to make in both games.

He was BOG in the SANFL the week before coming in. Does he need to be BOG for a month straight before he gets a call-up?

I agree that based on form in the game, he was the right option to sub out in his debut game - although personally I wouldn't have done it, purely because it was his debut game. Let him see it out.

In this past weekend's game, the idea that you sub him out after half time is crazy. If we need Nankervis in that badly, he shouldn't have been sub in the first place. If the kid is struggling that badly, it's up to the club to try some things with him. Give him a try in a different position for a while, or hell, just back him in to respond.

By subbing him out we not only cost ourselves a bench position for almost the entire second half (absolute hubris), but we also ensured he would come out of the match feeling down on himself. No opportunity for redemption.

Fingers crossed he'll get another chance at AFL level this week, but if not he's going to head back to the SANFL feeling less capable of playing than he was two weeks ago.

 

[Dirty Bird]

This thread isn't about you.

Please don't go full Sanders.

 

[rabidcrow]

He wasn't carving it up as a KPD and is certainly in a development phase there even at SANFL level, but was doing pretty well off the HB where he was less accountable, and was showing a lot of promise with his run/vision and decision making. He's such a beautiful kick.

I think he'll make way for the Pies game. He just needs to get up to the speed difference between SANFL/AFL, no way should he be given a key position just yet. I do like the idea of giving him more minutes at HB though

There seems to be a lot of posts alluding to (or outright saying) that Curtin played a key defensive role against the Lions

He played on a mix of their lesser lights - at no point was he asked to be a KPD standing either Hipwood or Daniher, nor was he sacrificed on a super small like Charlie

He was just completely out of sorts and outclassed on the night - and that’s okay for a two game player


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[George Kramer]

He did look rushed in traffic, not unexpected given it was his debut

I think he would really benefit from playing some of the lesser teams so regardless of whether he is in or out this week hopefully we see him for the 3 weeks following


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Gees I thought what he did against Port he did well, didn’t panic and made good decisions.

 

[rabidcrow]

+

I'm sure we're agreed that Curtin has a big future.
I'd prefer to see such a talented kid making mistakes and learning whiie acclimatising to the speed and pressure of AFL, than tearing it up in the SANFL.
Port/Brisbane/Collingwood is a baptism of fire for sure, but his confidence could only be boosted by being retained on the back of the Worrell injury. Nicks (or Hombsch) has got to get in his ear and tell him to play with freedom/flair and take a chance or two higher up the ground.

You say that but then smash the coach and team for losing. I would suggest Curtin playing the first half on the weekend directly cost us the game. Do you still want him learning in the AFL?
Compare that to Worrell - who’s as kept in the SANFL much to the ire of many in here - but came in ready to go and looked an AFL player from day 1? But all we hear there is he should have played earlier…


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[Dirty Bird]

Curtin ball in hand - Good
Curtin 3rd man up - Above Average
Curtin one-on-one defending - Very Bad.

Him in Worrell's role - I can see being good, and might be our best option until Murray's back (Well, unless you want to throw Dawson back there??? - But that's detrimental in other ways)

There's about 18 roles in the team I'm happy for him to play. Too bad we're stupid enough to play him in one of the 5 roles he'd fail in.

 

[Pugsley]

Please don't go full Sanders.

Just stating we are talking about a football team not ourselves.

 

[Dirty Bird]

You say that but then smash the coach and team for losing. I would suggest Curtin playing the first half on the weekend directly cost us the game. Do you still want him learning in the AFL?
Compare that to Worrell - who’s as kept in the SANFL much to the ire of many in here - but came in ready to go and looked an AFL player from day 1? But all we hear there is he should have played earlier…


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..........He was arguably worst afield in his debut.......And the only argument is with Sholl who never got subbed on, so does it even count?

12 months later though since he got his 2nd go. Yeah, he was fine. But that one and only game in 2021? Terrible. Basically invisible.

Probably the only bad game of his career though. Maybe that taste was good?

 

[rabidcrow]

Our coaching group think he will become a KPD.

Sure we moved up the draft to get a tall flanker with impeccable skills who could transition into the midfield but our coaches are certain he is a KPD.

Nothing good happens until a few coaches go

That is the worry. Would rather him up on a wing and use his height to assist our outlet kicks. An area we have struggled with all year


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[Dirty Bird]

That is the worry. Would rather him up on a wing and use his height to assist our outlet kicks. An area we have struggled with all year


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That's what I feel we should have done pre-season.

But I was shitting myself about what we'd do with the Murray/Butts injury cloud coming off last season.

I'd have been using his Height as an outside outlet. Then skill/composure to attack with ball in hand. Then feed him into the guts long term.

Tall =/= KP. With last years growth spurt, he has next to no KP experience at either end. If anyone drafted him with the intent to be a key defender, you're an idiot. Key forward? Risky borderline stupid. Midfield is the only position that made any sense. Otherwise you're trying to teach an old dog new tricks and it's bound to fail.

 

[rabidcrow]

Gees I thought what he did against Port he did well, didn’t panic and made good decisions.

He only got a couple of balls in traffic - and looked very rushed. From memory his first or second touch he put Max under the hammer by hand balling behind him and when he was covered by 2 players. I similar instances happens later in the quarter. He took a few marks out in space and had time to showcase his kick

Both games were pretty hot. I really hope they give him some of the easier chances coming up


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[spenze]

He only got a couple of balls in traffic - and looked very rushed. From memory his first or second touch he put Max under the hammer by hand balling behind him and when he was covered by 2 players. I similar instances happens later in the quarter. He took a few marks out in space and had time to showcase his kick

Both games were pretty hot. I really hope they give him some of the easier chances coming up


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You could see by the way he played in both games he was scared to make a mistake and against Brisbane his head dropped the first time Spud Logan got out the back.

You wonder what instructions he was sent out with

 

[DJ75]

If we drop Curtin he needs to be played in SANFL as a floating HB, wing or midfield absolutely NOT as a KPD.

Who cares if we lose

100% agree. Need to build confidence in his best role. Play to his strengths.

 

[BRL121]

You say that but then smash the coach and team for losing. I would suggest Curtin playing the first half on the weekend directly cost us the game. Do you still want him learning in the AFL?
Compare that to Worrell - who’s as kept in the SANFL much to the ire of many in here - but came in ready to go and looked an AFL player from day 1? But all we hear there is he should have played earlier…


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Worrell looked anything but an AFL player from day 1: he got nearly zero disposals and was banished. After dealing with a few issues, he was good when he returned much later. You picked a poor analogy.

Curtin should go back and "work on a few things" in the SANFL. We are in the business of trying to win games now. Wherever he plays on the ground, he must be able to defend. The AFL is not the place to learn that. It's a hard life!

 

[Checksider]

The umpires finally pick up a player for a dodgy handball

Only took 9 rounds

And of course it’s a Crow they penalise.

 

[Sanders]

This thread isn't about you.

 

[Scorpus]

Worrell looked anything but an AFL player from day 1: he got nearly zero disposals and was banished. After dealing with a few issues, he was good when he returned much later. You picked a poor analogy.

Curtin should go back and "work on a few things" in the SANFL. We are in the business of trying to win games now. Wherever he plays on the ground, he must be able to defend. The AFL is not the place to learn that. It's a hard life!

Worrell looked like an AFL player right throughout the SANFL season and then we picked him to debut in an away match in Cairns where the conditions were slippery and humid - making it difficult for a player who also needed to adjust to AFL level

Even though we won, we then dropped him the next match for Luke Brown who went on to play 2 more matches that season.

And this was in a season where we were clearly developing and won just 7 games and finished 15th

It was stupid not to back him in for more than 1 game in Cairns back then and IMO he absolutely could have played out the season

 

[CrowBloke]

You say that but then smash the coach and team for losing.

Draw, vs Brisbane.

Smash the Coach after a 0-4 start? Absolutely. The buck stops with Nicks.
Our 3win-5loss-draw record? Nicks.
Bewildering selection policies, week after week? Nicks.
Blatant favoritism towards underperforming seniors and scrappy, try-hard duds? Nicks.
A change of game plan that assumed we'd be playing Finals before we got there, totally confusing the players and resulting in a Season-crippling 0-4 start? NICKS .

Smash the players/team? Nuh-uh.
But I'm very critical of Smith's retention (would have been Sloane retained as well, but for his eye injury) and the week-after-week ineptitude of McHenry (apart from too-rare flashes of AFL-worthiness), for one.

I would suggest Curtin playing the first half on the weekend directly cost us the game. Do you still want him learning in the AFL?

Walker had 7 disposals for a full game, Michalanney 8, Cook 11, Keane 12.
Curtin 5 in a half.
I wouldn't blame any of them solely for the draw. Totally unfair to blame Curtin, even as a 'suggestion'.
When a player is getting beaten as Curtin was it's up to the Coach, yes, it's on Nicks again to change it up, to move him and encourage him at quarter time. At 19, Curtin needs encouragement, belief, support and a Coach who will give him every chance to shine. Being allowed to be beaten again in the second quarter then subbed out at half-time would be crushing to Curtin's spirit and confidence. Curtin needs to be managed, not thrown to the wolves, ignored, then onto a scrap-heap.
On the topic, Tex was getting beaten badly by Payne. Nicks let it go. Nicks did not tell the mids and others explicitly to only kick to Tex on a lead, or get Tex to play higher up the ground to nullify Payne's interceptions, or keep the ball low going forward in general. Even bouncy, erratic, chaos-ball would have been preferable to lobbing the ball into Payne's mitts entry after entry.
Keane was getting beaten. Did Nicks step up to make a change? Nope. <== all of these things are Coaching 101, rudimentary, basics.
It comes back to Nicks, every time.

Nicks is the problem and to a lesser extent Burns for turning our forwards into confused rabble in the first 4 games.
It's clear that the players do not like Nicks' chip-chip, defensive slowdown game plan, regardless of what Nicks is 'trying' to do. This group of Crows looks and plays their best when they are allowed to play with speed and flair, run-on overlap and fighting contests in tight ie get-the-ball, move-the-ball quickly, kick goals.

Compare that to Worrell - who’s as kept in the SANFL much to the ire of many in here - but came in ready to go and looked an AFL player from day 1? But all we hear there is he should have played earlier…

You've forgotten that Worrell was kept out by adherence to a senior-dominated backline.
He was ready for AFL well before selection but only promoted after Doedee was injured (and had not been playing well) in June, 2023.

Serious questions, not being provocative; since we're currently 12th and 3-5-1, with only Essendon above us with a worse %age, do you think
--- we will make Finals? I do not. If we somehow jag 7th or 8th spot, do you think
--- we will proceed past the First Final? I do not.
Do you think
--- Nicks will Coach us to Top 4 next year (his 6th year, Tex likely gone btw)? I do not.
Do you think
--- Nicks will Coach us to a Flag even after 7 years (if he lasts that long)? I do not.

I keep saying, desperately, that I hope I am wrong. I really do. I just can't see Crows' success under Nicks.

 

[CrowBloke]

Would rather him up on a wing and use his height to assist our outlet kicks. An area we have struggled with all year

Yes! Smart. Much better use of him.