Review Good the Bad and please no more Hartigan - Rd 7, 2020

[Crow_Magnon]

That was before 6-6-6 was implemented allowing more players to lock it up. With 6-6-6 now, it essentially important for rucks to get hit out to advantage. It’s not the reason why the midfield stinks. It’s 1/3 of the problem atm.

You Refer to flat foot. This can be positioning or mindset. Given they are not winning clean hit outs, crows midfield have a defensive and losing mentality.

Reminds me of a time when I witnessed Robert Shaw coaching us back in the day (1995 I think). We were due to play the Bombers the next week, and were expected to lose the ruck (injuries I think). He proceeded to train us all session with the ball coming out of backline - not expecting to win a centre clearance. Long story, short - we played that way the following week and lost by 122 pts. I chucked in my membership after that as I realised the coach had instilled completely the wrong message to the players. Nicks seems to be heading in the same direction - unfortunately.

 

[CrowBloke]

I've thought a LOT about this:

I've no idea WTF has happened to him.

He's playing like someone who has lost their spark/ inspiration/ motivation.
Handballs to flat-footed or guarded teammates, footpasses that grub or go ootf are expressions of how alert and keen he is.
WTF happened? I'm guessing:
--- 2017 GF. Some people cope better than others.
--- the Camp (maybe)
--- disenchantment with the Club/ Coaching/ teammates who have gone
--- maybe personal issues, who knows?

Whatever it is, he's playing well below his best, totally underwhelming, and is currently a liability in the midfield. Would he be any better on a wing, or HF?

 

[mistylake]

Good points. Tv can be frustrating with only a portion of the forward setup shown in action but honestly with our system you have to wonder if some of the forwards are even on the ground. I remember a bomb in that seemed to stay in the air for slow motion minutes and we offered no competition.....St K marked virtually unopposed. Making some sort of marking competition under a bomb is not that difficult. Julia's Sumner Miller would ask - why is it so?

Atmospheric pressure does the work I’m assuming.

 

[TubbsFarquhar]

I thought McHenry was decent - competed hard and was constantly at the contest.

I'm still not sold on him. Sure, he has a crack, but he seems to have very limited skills and his inability to make the distance from a 40m set shot was a real concern. I just get Riley Knight Mk. II vibes from him. Happy to proven wrong in the long term, obviously.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

While O'Brien isnt killing it with taps to advantage in the centre bounces, he is doing quite well around the ground, sits 5th for contested marks in the comp, and only has 27 games under his belt. I dont feel he is the problem, it is the midfield.

Singling out Mrouch for a drop in output is warranted, but virtually every single senior player has dropped. Laird, Smith, Sloane, Tex, Lynch, Brown, Talia, Seed, Brouch. They are all below their best performances. I think it is partly because they now dont have the support around them that they had 2 years ago. No Greenwood, Betts, Jenkins, Lever, Cameron, Douglas, Jacobs and so on. We basically had more players capable of winning their position a few years ago, now there is less for the opposition to stop, more pressure on the current seniors to carry the team and workload, and not every player turns to diamond under pressure. Some are also simply older too.

 

[DangerSloane]

That was before 6-6-6 was implemented allowing more players to lock it up. With 6-6-6 now, it essentially important for rucks to get hit out to advantage. It’s not the reason why the midfield stinks. It’s 1/3 of the problem atm.

You Refer to flat foot. This can be positioning or mindset. Given they are not winning clean hit outs, crows midfield have a defensive and losing mentality.

At any level of football you can easily win a game while being belted in the ruck.
Look at good teams and good midfields, they read the opposition ruck tap as if its their own.

 

[DangerSloane]

An All Australian gong and Club champion jacket would say otherwise. The 2017 Player of the Year according to the Age. No. He was definitely a good user of the ball.

Richard Douglas was a club champion too.
Does that mean in 2020 he's the same player?

Tom Mitchell won every award under the sun and he is NOT a good user.
Matt was never above average disposal, ever.
His kicks have always been slow travelling and never long and his handballs have been inconsistent.
He got AA based off pure ball winning ability which is something he still has. Unfortunately right now its killing us every time he gets it.


The speed of kicks is something that is never focussed on by the experts but is a massive thing we dont have besides smith.
We cant hit a low bullet pass to save ourselves.
Its a major reason we never seem to be able to 'hit someone through the middle' as we break from defence. Nobody can even hit the kick, not to mention attempt it.

 

[hey shorty]

Richard Douglas was a club champion too.
Does that mean in 2020 he's the same player?

Tom Mitchell won every award under the sun and he is NOT a good user.
Matt was never above average disposal, ever.
His kicks have always been slow travelling and never long and his handballs have been inconsistent.
He got AA based off pure ball winning ability which is something he still has. Unfortunately right now its killing us every time he gets it.


The speed of kicks is something that is never focussed on by the experts but is a massive thing we dont have besides smith.
We cant hit a low bullet pass to save ourselves.
Its a major reason we never seem to be able to 'hit someone through the middle' as we break from defence. Nobody can even hit the kick, not to mention attempt it.

You don't get a BnF in a top 2 year without being a great player. His ball use is a massive issue currently but if we had 2017 Matt on Monday night we win comfortably

 

[DangerSloane]

You don't get a BnF in a top 2 year without being a great player. His ball use is a massive issue currently but if we had 2017 Matt on Monday night we win comfortably

He was a great player, but his disposal was never above average.
I still think he can get back to form but right now hes murdering us.

 

[Maddogmetro]

Interesting post I came across re Ned.


● Ranked 2nd among rising stars in Total Tackles Inside 50

● Ranked 4th among rising stars in Total Tackles

● Ranked 6th among rising stars in Total Stoppage Clearances

● Ranked 6th among rising stars in Total Clearances

● Ranked 7th among rising stars in Total Uncontested Possessions

● Ranked 8th among rising stars in Tackles Inside 50 Per Game

● Ranked 8th among rising stars in Total Time On Ground %

● Ranked 9th among rising stars in Total Disposals

● Ranked 9th among rising stars in Total Marks Inside 50

● Ranked 9th among rising stars in Total Centre Clearances

● Ranked 9th among rising stars in Total Score Involvements

● Ranked 10th among rising stars in Total Marks

● Ranked 10th among rising stars in Total Effective Disposals

('Rising stars' meaning eligible for rising star this year)

 

[hey shorty]

He was a great player, but his disposal was never above average.
I still think he can get back to form but right now hes murdering us.

For sure. If we could get Jones to around the 18-20 disposal mark we would be far better off.

 

[Golumless]

Interesting post I came across re Ned.


● Ranked 2nd among rising stars in Total Tackles Inside 50

● Ranked 4th among rising stars in Total Tackles

● Ranked 6th among rising stars in Total Stoppage Clearances

● Ranked 6th among rising stars in Total Clearances

● Ranked 7th among rising stars in Total Uncontested Possessions

● Ranked 8th among rising stars in Tackles Inside 50 Per Game

● Ranked 8th among rising stars in Total Time On Ground %

● Ranked 9th among rising stars in Total Disposals

● Ranked 9th among rising stars in Total Marks Inside 50

● Ranked 9th among rising stars in Total Centre Clearances

● Ranked 9th among rising stars in Total Score Involvements

● Ranked 10th among rising stars in Total Marks

● Ranked 10th among rising stars in Total Effective Disposals

('Rising stars' meaning eligible for rising star this year)

It's why totals are a really meaningless stats, as inevitably someone who plays 5 games will produce more than one game. I was surprised he wasn't top 10 in anything per game though, however, I assume that's averages is having the opposite problem in that it's only taking 2 games to be included at the moment.

 

[Maddogmetro]

It's why totals are a really meaningless stats, as inevitably someone who plays 5 games will produce more than one game. I was surprised he wasn't top 10 in anything per game though, however, I assume that's averages is having the opposite problem in that it's only taking 2 games to be included at the moment.

Yeah I agree, totals definitely not the best statistic to use. Just thought it was interesting and thought I'd share...

 

[Schulzycrow]

My highlight of the night was actually a McPherson mark just outside 50 where he was completely out of position, wrestled with his man and ditched him to mark it, the mark was so important because Stkilda we're out if his opponent had marked it.

It showed real game awareness and maturity, I probably cheered louder for that Mark than Fish's (as good as that one was)

Out you go. Showing up senior players.

 

[DangerSloane]

My highlight of the night was actually a McPherson mark just outside 50 where he was completely out of position, wrestled with his man and ditched him to mark it, the mark was so important because Stkilda we're out if his opponent had marked it.

It showed real game awareness and maturity, I probably cheered louder for that Mark than Fish's (as good as that one was)

The sad thing is we have all these good marks of the footy in the back half. (Talia, Doedee, McPherson)

Nobody in the front half can take a mark to save themselves.

 

[marty36]

The sad thing is we have all these good marks of the footy in the back half. (Talia, Doedee, McPherson)

Nobody in the front half can take a mark to save themselves.

lot easier taking a mark like that than whilst under pressure leading up from the forward line, you would know that if you have played the game

 

[DangerSloane]

lot easier taking a mark like that than whilst under pressure leading up from the forward line, you would know that if you have played the game

Dont worry i played plenty of the game at a good level mate and all over the ground.

Taking a 1 on 1 mark anywhere on the ground is the same exact concept.
I did exactly the same thnig when playing back pocket as i did at full forward.

Yes theres the 3rd man in marks, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about being able to mark the ball one on one.
Our forwards simply cannot do it.

Look at other teams. Find another one with no good marking players in the front half.

 

[skam85]

Yeh and richmond won a flag with Nankervis and Grigg as their rucks.

I repeat. IT IS NOT THE ISSUE

The midfield being stagnant, slow off the mark and flat footed are the main causes.
We let them walk it out even when ROB wins the tap.

Yep, agree. The ruck has played a minor role in recent flags. It's all about the mid around him.

Looking back at the teams that have won grand finals recently is hardly a who's who of elite ruckmen:

19: Nank, Soldo
18: Lycett, Vardy
17: Nank, Grigg
16: Jordan Roughead
13-15: Hale, McEvoy and Max Bailey (!)
12: Mummy, Pyke

 

[DangerSloane]

Yep, agree. The ruck has played a minor role in recent flags. It's all about the mid around him.

Looking back at the teams that have won grand finals recently is hardly a who's who of elite ruckmen:

19: Nank, Soldo
18: Lycett, Vardy
17: Nank, Grigg
16: Jordan Roughead
13-15: Hale, McEvoy and Max Bailey (!)
12: Mummy, Pyke

Correct.
Dont see any of the big 3 Gs up there (Gawn, Goldstein, Grundy)

Interesting to see if those teams won clearances for the year too. Id be willing to bet they at worst broke even.

 

[skam85]

Correct.
Dont see any of the big 3 Gs up there (Gawn, Goldstein, Grundy)

Interesting to see if those teams won clearances for the year too. Id be willing to bet they at worst broke even.

The list of losing GF rucks is a list of better rucks as well. Names include Sauce, Nic Nat, Grundy, Sandilands.