Review Grade your team’s draft

[HeHateMe]

I'd be a tad disappointed with the off season if I were a Hawks fan. I just think they have little to show for getting rid of Mitchell, O'Meara, F2 amd F3

I've heard this a bit from a few people I know, but I think it's a bit overstated.

Look at this way if we traded:

1. Lose Gunston as FA without compo but land Amon as a FA
2. Trade: Mitchell, 24 and F3rd for Stephens, 14 and F2rd(dogs)
3. Trade: O'Meara and F2nd for Meek, 36, F3rd(dogs)

I wonder if we would be getting as much negative criticism. The end result is the same but how we got here is much different.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Hawks have had a brilliant draft here. I really liked the big move to grab Weddle, rather than sitting back hoping you can get a bargain, pay the price and get the player you want.

Yeah agree, effectively we were able to snag two top ten talents - according to our own scouting team of course. Hopefully they were on the money.

I'd like to know the clubs thoughts on Hustwaite. Where do they see him playing?

As it stands we will have one tall midfield unit (obviously not everyone will play):

Nash - 197cm
Hustwaite- 194/195cm
Weddle - 193cm
Day - 190cm
Maginess - 189cm
Stephens - 188cm
Mackenzie - 188cm

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I've heard this a bit from a few people I know, but I think it's a bit overstated.

Look at this way if we traded:

1. Lose Gunston as FA without compo but land Amon as a FA
2. Trade: Mitchell, 24 and F3rd for Stephens, 14 and F2rd(dogs)
3. Trade: O'Meara and F2nd for Meek, 36, F3rd(dogs)

I wonder if we would be getting as much negative criticism. The end result is the same but how we got here is much different.

We didn't trade anything for pick 14 though. It was pick 18. It doesn't matter where the pick was originally, that's irrelevant. What matters is where the pick was when we traded for it.

The main issue with the JOM and Mitchell trades is that we did not receive any top picks, nor any proven players. I think everyone can see that this is the issue. Meek and Stephens are anything but proven, though they do look promising. So maybe by this time next year people will think the trades were not so bad after all if they have both established themselves.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Yeah agree, effectively we were able to snag two top ten talents - according to our own scouting team of course. Hopefully they were on the money.

I'd like to know the clubs thoughts on Hustwaite. Where do they see him playing?

As it stands we will have one tall midfield unit (obviously not everyone will play):

Nash - 197cm
Hustwaite- 194/195cm
Weddle - 193cm
Day - 190cm
Maginess - 189cm
Stephens - 188cm
Mackenzie - 188cm

I like the look of where the Hawks are going. They are making no bones about it, just getting young talent into the club for now. You would expect another couple of low/lowish finishes will net another small handful of highly talented youngsters. Not shocked if they trade their 2024 first round pick into next year to try to grab 2 more top 10 talents - presumably including a class medium forward type. Then most of the structure for a strong future team will be at the club.

I might be worng but ultimately I see Weddle as a hybrid or key defender.

KPD = Grainger + Weddle

Inside mids = Newcombe + Ward + MacKenzie + Stephens

Rucks = Reeves + Meek + Lynch

KPF = Lewis + Koschitzke + Jeka

All 24yo or younger now. Someone will be cut down by injuries and another might want to leave and one might not kick on as much as hoped. But all being equal you are expecting at least about 7 or 8 of those to help form a strong spine. You already have a load of very decent looking young wingers flankers and pockets at the club. So I sort of expect a timeline like this:

2023 - low finish, try to recruit one more quality KPP and quality dynamic forward through the draft.

2024 - another low/lowish finish

2025 - first phase of the talented young players starting to enter their prime, by now you can probably see how the land lies and fill in missing pieces with selective use of free agency or mature recruiting over the course of 2-3 off seasons.

2027 - you should have a talented young team assembled that averages about 70 odd games together with plenty of upside left.

As you say, it doesn’t matter so much what you paid for Weddle, all that matters is if he is good or not and if he is good, that he is in the door as early as possible to allow that spine to start playing games together at the earliest point. And if he is not good then the same applies, you want to know as early as possible to allow the club to seek a mature replacement around 2025/26.

Hawthorn is now a very young list with only 7 players 26 or older entering the 2023 season. Geelong will have at least 17 players 26 or older. Richmond 16. Melbourne will have 20. Brisbane 16. So it will be tough going for the Hawks I think, but overall, I like where they are heading now.

 

[blueiris]

Getting both Ashcroft and Fletcher and not going into deficit definitely feels like an A to me

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Definitely think you need to fix the midfield and probably as importantly the forwards pressure immediately. But that's coaching and bringing in mature talent. We'll see if a revitalized Tippa, a healthy Snelling, Setterfield, maybe A. Davey and the right coaching can fix that up.

George certainly wasn't going to fix that any time soon. He's not a defensive specialist and neither is he proven as a midfielder. At the moment he's a super talented medium forward with bung knees.

Not every draft has high upside key defenders available in the early second round. They do happen, but not a guarantee. There's always medium forwards who drop because teams don't rate their defensive game or midfield ability. George might be better than that, he certainly was expected to play very well in the midfield and display a rounded game. But that's pre knee injuries.

If you took an outside mid, small mid, back flanker I'd understand the frustration. But I think you took the right level of risk with a heap of upside too. At the end of the day North took George because they're in the best position to game at that draft range given how stacked they are for young talent.

Even with his ACL George will likely be influencing games before Hayes will. Hayes is 10-15kgs off being selected on merit. George doesn't need to be a defensive specialist to apply physicality, to compete aerially, to be a offensive threat that requires defenders attention, kicking 18 goals in 4 and half games suggests he'll potentially offer plenty of threat. All these things passively add to the aggregate of defense. All these actions are buying seconds for others to setup or get there for support.

I don't really rate Setterfield or Snelling, they might be handy support types if our starting midfield was Oliver, Petracca and Viney but we will tread water with them.

The way I look at is we have a hyper-fixation on fixing our defense woes exclusively through spending too much currency on defenders. This has proven to be very poor strategy, given our last decade. Since 2015 we've taken 22 picks inside the first three rounds, 11 of them have been either defenders as juniors or we tried to develop as defenders. We have botched 2 builds in that period under that strategy.

We are not helping our list balance taking another skinny key defender that doesn't offer us much difference to what we already have. He's not going to be able to man mark gorilla forwards any more than Reid or BZT can. What we need is players who can build pressure elsewhere to relieve pressure down back.

From a list comparison perspective: at the end of the season we had about 7 less players in the 184cm-192cm group than the top 4 teams. This is where most of the best players in the competition reside. And it's been a long time deficiency. This is where we need to be making ground other teams. This Hayes pick shows Dodoro's inability to break out of the mental shackles that keep him in a poor strategic holding pattern.

 

[TedDougChris]

Yes, definitely not having a go at the players themselves, they could be great, but it would be like Carlton drafting 3 key forwards. It just wouldn't make sense based their current list build.

For years, a lot of us have felt this way about our drafting and trading - but this year we have actually filled holes in our list profile.

We're still in shock and recovering - but we'll get back to you on how we are feeling a bit later....

 

[weltschmerz]

For years, a lot of us have felt this way about our drafting and trading - but this year we have actually filled holes in our list profile.

We're still in shock and recovering - but we'll get back to you on how we are feeling a bit later....

but nah, remember, we gotta draft two high quality mids this year because our midfield is ageing, don't look at our KPDs

 

[sydney_gws]

A
Sheezel will be a marquee player
Wardlaw seems a safe bet
George without the acl was on track for top 10
Harvey underrated, versatile, tough and can accumulate

Just wish we got a KPF

How highly did you rate Cadman? If you had 1,3 rather than 2 from the megatrade, would GWS get Cadman at 2. I think GWS stuffed up and should have only traded up to Pick 2 with eagles(3,18,31 for 2,20 is fair and what I wanted) , not go for pick 1.

 

[The Nostradamus]

How highly did you rate Cadman? If you had 1,3 rather than 2 from the megatrade, would GWS get Cadman at 2. I think GWS stuffed up and should have only traded up to Pick 2 with eagles(3,18,31 for 2,20 is fair and what I wanted) , not go for pick 1.

apparently our top 3 was ashcroft sheezel and wardlaw

not sure where cadman was, i'd assume next

 

[eth-dog]

apparently our top 3 was ashcroft sheezel and wardlaw

not sure where cadman was, i'd assume next

I said from the start that Sheezel should have been the pick straight after a bid if you kept #1. Nice to feel vindicated.

 

[theGav56]

Like the Reidy pick. Not a great tap ruck but moves well and has good hands.

Yes that makes him a nice strategic addition as he seems ready to cover either of our starting rucks if required.

In his club interview he talks up his forward prowess. Optimistic?

 

[eth-dog]

Yes that makes him a nice strategic addition as he seems ready to cover either of our starting rucks if required.

In his club interview he talks up his forward prowess. Optimistic?

He was handy there. I daresay Knobel and him would be splitting their time in the WAFL.

 

[Off Tap]

How highly did you rate Cadman? If you had 1,3 rather than 2 from the megatrade, would GWS get Cadman at 2. I think GWS stuffed up and should have only traded up to Pick 2 with eagles(3,18,31 for 2,20 is fair and what I wanted) , not go for pick 1.

I don't think that there would be too many WCE supporters who would be happy with that end result.

Most of us are pretty stoked that we ended up with Ginbey and Hewett for pick 2 rather than take 3,18,31 for 2,20.

 

[RUNVS]

You got one of the absolute steals in this draft with Jaiden Magor, don't be fooled into thinking he's just a clever medium forward, he's a genuine inside/outside midfielder/forward.

Must admit I had never heard of him before the draft but now I have done research and seen what he has achieved I am left wondering how the hell he was not taken in the late first round or the second round at the latest. He has done some impressive things and either seems to get a lot of possessions in the midfield or kick a lot of goals when forward.

Definitely find him to be an exciting prospect.

 

[anotherletdown]

B-. Like that we got active and picked up some futures. Good that we followed our rankings but at some point you have to know your list and appreciate talls take longer to develop. Holding our picks would have got us Weddle and Barnett... what am I missing?

 

[perplexed]

B-. Like that we got active and picked up some futures. Good that we followed our rankings but at some point you have to know your list and appreciate talls take longer to develop. Holding our picks would have got us Weddle and Barnett... what am I missing?

North were similar. We need more talls but didn't take any other than a rookie ruck. Basically we didn't rate anyone high enough. It was a very shallow draft for KPP's especially forwards. Other than Cadman and Jefferson none were worth a list spot. The third one picked was Keeler at 44. Adelaide could have had him for free, but weren't interested.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

You would have to say it was a tsatasfactory draft for the Bombers.

That's terrible and I love it 10/10

 

[master bate]

2. Trade: Mitchell, 24 and F3rd for Stephens, 14 and F2rd(dogs)
3. Trade: O'Meara and F2nd for Meek, 36, F3rd(dogs)

I wonder if we would be getting as much negative criticism. The end result is the same but how we got here is much different.

Another way of putting it:
Out: In

27: 18
Mitchell: Stephens
O'Meara: Meek
Hawks F2: Dogs F2
Hawks F3: Dogs F3
Late picks: 37

Not a bad series of moves but to me it's like you've won 3 and lost 3. I've classing Meek as a win because I like him, and calling Mitchell a loss because in an ideal world I think you'd prefer to keep one mature mid, even if I'd rather O'Meara for versatility.

The most important move is the first one, getting up a tier or 2 in draft ratings according to your own board to get Weddle.

And you'll be death riding the Dogs to make sure the pick swaps aren't too painful. I know there's academy considerations but you just don't want to be giving up pick 19 to Sydney and taking back pick 35 from the Dogs, especially if it does turn in to a super draft.

Whether you've cut the experience too fine and whether Stephens and Meek are contributors we'll soon find out I guess. I like Meek, even if having 3 ready to go rucks seems a big expense when you're years from contending. I'm not a huge wrap for Stephens, the Cats generally don't let good ones go.

 

[HeHateMe]

Another way of putting it:
Out: In

27: 18
Mitchell: Stephens
O'Meara: Meek
Hawks F2: Dogs F2
Hawks F3: Dogs F3
Late picks: 37

Not a bad series of moves but to me it's like you've won 3 and lost 3. I've classing Meek as a win because I like him, and calling Mitchell a loss because in an ideal world I think you'd prefer to keep one mature mid, even if I'd rather O'Meara for versatility.

The most important move is the first one, getting up a tier or 2 in draft ratings according to your own board to get Weddle.

And you'll be death riding the Dogs to make sure the pick swaps aren't too painful. I know there's academy considerations but you just don't want to be giving up pick 19 to Sydney and taking back pick 35 from the Dogs, especially if it does turn in to a super draft.

Whether you've cut the experience too fine and whether Stephens and Meek are contributors we'll soon find out I guess. I like Meek, even if having 3 ready to go rucks seems a big expense when you're years from contending. I'm not a huge wrap for Stephens, the Cats generally don't let good ones go.

Good points, to add an extra bit of complexity you can consider F/S McCabe. Sliding back in the 3rd round will be pretty meaningless since that pick will be absorbed on any bid and the points differences at that range is quite small. Sliding back in the 2nd round will be the big issue, as an early projection McCabe is looking like a late 1st but if he slides back behind our original 2nd that pick swap will hurt more.

 

[bird_man]

North were similar. We need more talls but didn't take any other than a rookie ruck. Basically we didn't rate anyone high enough. It was a very shallow draft for KPP's especially forwards. Other than Cadman and Jefferson none were worth a list spot. The third one picked was Keeler at 44. Adelaide could have had him for free, but weren't interested.

Other clubs with better key forwards on their list than North rated a few key forwards enough to take them with later picks so it will be interesting to see how they turn out.

I've think they all showed enough to to give a crack

 

[Warwick]

Must admit I had never heard of him before the draft but now I have done research and seen what he has achieved I am left wondering how the hell he was not taken in the late first round or the second round at the latest. He has done some impressive things and either seems to get a lot of possessions in the midfield or kick a lot of goals when forward.

Definitely find him to be an exciting prospect.

You can say that for many of your team’s draftees though.

As soon as you draft someone you go back and try and find as many of their highlights as you can. Their positive qualities outshine their negative when you know they’re going to be playing for you.

I remember doing the same with Jimmy Tunstill. Never heard of him when his name was read. Went back, read his profiles, watched his videos - wow! How was he not in the convo for top 10?!

 

[RUNVS]

You can say that for many of your team’s draftees though.

As soon as you draft someone you go back and try and find as many of their highlights as you can. Their positive qualities outshine their negative when you know they’re going to be playing for you.

I remember doing the same with Jimmy Tunstill. Never heard of him when his name was read. Went back, read his profiles, watched his videos - wow! How was he not in the convo for top 10?!

He has some impressive stats

 

[Sphynx]

Even with his ACL George will likely be influencing games before Hayes will. Hayes is 10-15kgs off being selected on merit. George doesn't need to be a defensive specialist to apply physicality, to compete aerially, to be a offensive threat that requires defenders attention, kicking 18 goals in 4 and half games suggests he'll potentially offer plenty of threat. All these things passively add to the aggregate of defense. All these actions are buying seconds for others to setup or get there for support.

I don't really rate Setterfield or Snelling, they might be handy support types if our starting midfield was Oliver, Petracca and Viney but we will tread water with them.

The way I look at is we have a hyper-fixation on fixing our defense woes exclusively through spending too much currency on defenders. This has proven to be very poor strategy, given our last decade. Since 2015 we've taken 22 picks inside the first three rounds, 11 of them have been either defenders as juniors or we tried to develop as defenders. We have botched 2 builds in that period under that strategy.

We are not helping our list balance taking another skinny key defender that doesn't offer us much difference to what we already have. He's not going to be able to man mark gorilla forwards any more than Reid or BZT can. What we need is players who can build pressure elsewhere to relieve pressure down back.

From a list comparison perspective: at the end of the season we had about 7 less players in the 184cm-192cm group than the top 4 teams. This is where most of the best players in the competition reside. And it's been a long time deficiency. This is where we need to be making ground other teams. This Hayes pick shows Dodoro's inability to break out of the mental shackles that keep him in a poor strategic holding pattern.

Certainly a powerful unit already.

 

[Golumless]

Adelaide is a solid 'B' for me this draft period.

Read the tea leaves for the Michalanny bid, meaning we picked up a late-first round prospect (rated by the best in the business in Sydney) with loose change which is the major driver for this grade. Dowling and Bond seem to also fit that "ultra-tough" profile of footballers we've loved in this rebuild and we didn't pay much in trades for either, so seems like a pair of pass marks at this point. All in all, a solid draft.