AFL Grand Final Grand Final, 2019: Richmond v GWS

[Pakenhamsaint]

So when Tom Lynch looks at his options ,and decides on the lowest offer from he best team in the league, it goes totally against what the system is supposed to achieve.

But he's looking at more than just who is going to win a flag. He'll be looking at what sort of culture does a club have and how it fits in with him.

Paddy Ryder only last week went to two clubs. Essendon and us. He liked our environment more than Essendon.

 

[mighty_sainters]

Tom Lynch: "I just love this football club"

FMD. he's basically the equivilant of a band Wagoner. Jumped onto an already strong club. Contributed not much. Walks away with a flag.

Have no issues with the likes of Dusty jroo cotch etc. But pumping up lynch is a bit rich.

Brad Hill the day he signs for us: “I already love this club”.

Us: GET THE **** IN! Knew he always wanted to play in the RWB!!!!

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Good news everyone. We found the source of the big big sound. It in fact was a small earthquake outside Pakenham and not GWS.

 

[Greg1853]

Imagine if we'd played a team like GWS in the GF in either 2009 or 2010!

This is exactly what kills me.

 

[Greg1853]

Weren’t they shopping him around a few years ago and no takers?
Now there’s a sliding door moment. Have to laugh at the other clubs.

He toured the GWS facilities!!!!!!!

 

[Greg1853]

Lynch is everything that is wrong with AFL free agency.

The league want an American system where salary caps impacts where stars go and stop teams from loading up to win titles.

But US sports are now working out that the money is so high that 15 mil vs 10 mil and a championship is a real question.

AFL players aren't all greedy robots. It's drummed into every kid that team success is the ultimate. Nat Fyfe would trade both Brownlows for a single flag.

So when Tom Lynch looks at his options ,and decides on the lowest offer from he best team in the league, it goes totally against what the system is supposed to achieve.

St Kilda offered much more money. Some reports were as high as 500k a season more. Our bid came late in the piece though and we were never in the hunt.

Collingwood also offered more. Not as much as St Kilda, but they also had the lure of being Lynch's favorite team as a kid.

Lynch still chose the Tigers.

I don't know what the solution is. Do teams picking up FA players give up picks/points based on compo?

EG Lynch is worth band 1 compo so the Tigers have to lose their first round pick?

Or maybe put some power back with the club's and allow them to trade players while under contract. Tim Kelly off to Freo you go.

Unfortunately there is no easy answers and so it's really easy for clubs to fall into limbo while others are blessed with a timed run to win multiple flags.

My hope is that this group - Clark, Coffield, Bytel, Ming and maybe Bing, Wilkie etc - all gel and hit a peak in 4-5 years as Tassie and WA3 come in a ruin the draft for the teams falling through the mid card.

If it's another Richo style false dawn though then we are in for a world of hurt and a long time doing nothing because FA options are going to flock to the big MCG clubs for a shot at a flag.

To me the solution is obvious. Make the side getting the free agent pay. The AFL award compensation to the side losing the free agent. Simply take the compensation from the team getting the player. There, it is fixed.

Mind you, Richmond's biggest free ride came not from having obtained Lynch, Prestia & Caddy (in a round about way) from the fake sides, but from having built a strong list just as GC and GWS came into the comp. As most other sides have been thwarted from trying to create a stronger list whilst being behind the million 1st round draft picks that GC and GWS got, Richmond had the foundations in place, and have continued to cherry pick recruits in latter years, and have done it very well

 

[Brains Trust66]

Can you believe this is up on the AFL site at the moment .

All-time VFL/AFL premierships
The Tigers' draw level with Melbourne on the all-time leaderboard, having delivered their 12th Toyota AFL Premiership Cup

Carlton
16
Essendon
16
Collingwood
15
Hawthorn
13
Melbourne
12
Richmond
12
Fitzroy / Brisbane
11
Geelong
9
Sydney / Sth Melb
5
West Coast
4
North Melbourne
4
Western Bulldogs
2
St Kilda
2
Adelaide
2
Port Adelaide
1
Fremantle
0
Gold Coast
0
GWS
0
University
0


Was i in a coma for a year and missed the Saints second premiership ? I wonder who we beat , hahahahahaha .
What a clusterfxxk . lol


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[bird_man]

They no doubt would do things differently. I don't think they go in the Whitfield and Davis who were obviously injured.

But game plan. I'm not sure if any changes could have been made to overcome an 80+ deficit. What are you suggesting?

They were just so far off it. Particularly in the midfield.

I actually think without their game plan they don't even make the prelim.

I'm not going to profess to know all the answers, otherwise I wouldn't be wasting my time on bigfooty.

But the way I see it is Richmond are the probably the best structured and well drilled side I've seen and the Giants didn't have the answers for it.

Every time I've seen GWS live, which is a few, I don't see that. They look more like a team that will back themselves to win one on one footy and back their talent.

The way Richmond defend the whole ground amazes me. They've got talent no doubt, but who would have predicted they would be as good as they are? They do that because of the way they are coached.

The Giants had no answers yesterday. A side with Kelly, Hopper, Taranto, Greene, Cameron etc should be able to score more than three goals in a game. You can't put that down to lack of talent.

If the Giants are going to win a flag they need to change the way they play because they've had the talent for years now but it's obviously not working.

I was also frustrated that Cameron didn't seem to have a plan B. Not a lot changed when it clearly wasn't working. They continued to let Richmond out number them behind the footy and continued to kick it to them. Even the basic things like shuffling a few magnets around wasn't happening a lot. Davis was getting beaten and Finlayson couldn't impact the game. Why not throw Davis forward and move Finlayson back? Might not of made a difference but what was there to lose?

 

[StCicatriz]

I'm not going to profess to know all the answers, otherwise I wouldn't be wasting my time on bigfooty.

But the way I see it is Richmond are the probably the best structured and well drilled side I've seen and the Giants didn't have the answers for it.

Every time I've seen GWS live, which is a few, I don't see that. They look more like a team that will back themselves to win one on one footy and back their talent.

The way Richmond defend the whole ground amazes me. They've got talent no doubt, but who would have predicted they would be as good as they are? They do that because of the way they are coached.

The Giants had no answers yesterday. A side with Kelly, Hopper, Taranto, Greene, Cameron etc should be able to score more than three goals in a game. You can't put that down to lack of talent.

If the Giants are going to win a flag they need to change the way they play because they've had the talent for years now but it's obviously not working.

I was also frustrated that Cameron didn't seem to have a plan B. Not a lot changed when it clearly wasn't working. They continued to let Richmond out number them behind the footy and continued to kick it to them. Even the basic things like shuffling a few magnets around wasn't happening a lot. Davis was getting beaten and Finlayson couldn't impact the game. Why not throw Davis forward and move Finlayson back? Might not of made a difference but what was there to lose?

Because their backline was holding up extremely well for how poor the midfield was. Moving the magnets around in an area that was working whilst not addressing the root cause isn't going to fix anything.

Watch the giants previous 3 games. They clearly went in with a game plan that worked. They knew they didn't have the midfield to go all the way but went in an dragged the other midfield down with them. They wrestled momentum their way. They had a team first defence and a taggers mentality of targetting every opposition player physically. A sharp contrast to previous seasons. They adjusted to what they had and it worked. Instead of being bailed out in week two. They went and won another 2 more finals and made a grand final.

Using Mumford the way they did in the prelim arguably won them the game.

That back 6 I think was the best performed in the finals. The way they use Haynes and structure it up is almost perfect. Better than richmond IMO.

Where they've fallen down is they don't have a midfield that can drive and control the game. If they had ward and cogs out there, with a fit whitfield maybe they could have scrapped out a different outcome. But alas they couldn't.

What GWS probably need is a few more manic defensive type players to compliment the forward talent they have. Plus the talent on the wing.

Someone like a mitch Robinson would compliment them perfectly.

I think looking back on it people will see that the giants surpassed expectation. Many had them 50/50 week 1. But no one had them making a grand final. They did very well.

 

[sunny3193]

Davis was getting beaten and Finlayson couldn't impact the game. Why not throw Davis forward and move Finlayson back? Might not of made a difference but what was there to lose?

I didn’t believe it this morning when my Tiger mate told me that Finlayson only had the one possession.
Checked it and absolutely true.
So I reckon you’re spot on.

Note: he did have 100% disposal efficiency tho.

 

[nitewalker13]

I hope one day in my lifetime, I'll see saints players on the stage with the AFL premiership trophy.

 

[bird_man]

Because their backline was holding up extremely well for how poor the midfield was. Moving the magnets around in an area that was working whilst not addressing the root cause isn't going to fix anything.

Watch the giants previous 3 games. They clearly went in with a game plan that worked. They knew they didn't have the midfield to go all the way but went in an dragged the other midfield down with them. They wrestled momentum their way. They had a team first defence and a taggers mentality of targetting every opposition player physically. A sharp contrast to previous seasons. They adjusted to what they had and it worked. Instead of being bailed out in week two. They went and won another 2 more finals and made a grand final.

Using Mumford the way they did in the prelim arguably won them the game.

That back 6 I think was the best performed in the finals. The way they use Haynes and structure it up is almost perfect. Better than richmond IMO.

Where they've fallen down is they don't have a midfield that can drive and control the game. If they had ward and cogs out there, with a fit whitfield maybe they could have scrapped out a different outcome. But alas they couldn't.

What GWS probably need is a few more manic defensive type players to compliment the forward talent they have. Plus the talent on the wing.

Someone like a mitch Robinson would compliment them perfectly.

I think looking back on it people will see that the giants surpassed expectation. Many had them 50/50 week 1. But no one had them making a grand final. They did very well.

Disagree. Davis was soundly beaten by Riewoldt when the game was on the line. Looked like he couldn't keep up with him. Anyway, that was just a small part of the point I was trying to make, which was that they didn't seem have a plan B. Swapping those two might not have made a difference.

I agree Coniglio and Ward would have made a difference, but they didn't have those guys over the last 3 weeks either, so I'm not sure how you think that a side that has made the grand final can kick their lowest ever score and there was no issues except for the cattle. A side littered with talent that actually had as much of the footy as their opponents. I wasn't expecting them to win the game, but you'd think with that much footy you could find a few avenues to score more than they did.

People may think they have exceeded expectations, that's because they have failed to live up to their expectations over the last 3 or so years though IMO.

I think if they had someone like Dimma or even Ross Lyon in his day coaching them would see different results.

 

[StCicatriz]

Disagree. Davis was soundly beaten by Riewoldt when the game was on the line. Looked like he couldn't keep up with him. Anyway, that was just a small part of the point I was trying to make, which was that they didn't seem have a plan B. Swapping those two might not have made a difference.

I agree Coniglio and Ward would have made a difference, but they didn't have those guys over the last 3 weeks either, so I'm not sure how you think that a side that has made the grand final can kick their lowest ever score and there was no issues except for the cattle. A side littered with talent that actually had as much of the footy as their opponents. I wasn't expecting them to win the game, but you'd think with that much footy you could find a few avenues to score more than they did.

People may think they have exceeded expectations, that's because they have failed to live up to their expectations over the last 3 or so years though IMO.

I think if they had someone like Dimma or even Ross Lyon in his day coaching them would see different results.

Let's remember Davis was injured. Like I said earlier he shouldn't have played.

If ross was coaching them I doubt they make a grand final tbh. Hell even finals.

I think GWS did change things in the area that was the root cause of all their issues. The midfield. But it didn't do anything. Hence the score. For example green was moved onto the ball.

I mean do you really think they didn't try anything?

Speak to any coach and they will tell you there's not a lot you can do during game. It's like 5% in terms of impact.

GWS got absolutely walloped because they were essentially the 5th best side of the year but because they played above themselves they managed to cause 2 upsets to get into it.

Dimma didn't win this final on match day coaching. He's won it because of their system over the last 10 years. Coupled with how he's coached the side since round 1. He clearly had an emphasis of coaching towards the grand final and peaking at the right time.

GWS had the reverse of their year list wise. Had a healthy list ended up in disrepair.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

But he's looking at more than just who is going to win a flag. He'll be looking at what sort of culture does a club have and how it fits in with him.

Paddy Ryder only last week went to two clubs. Essendon and us. He liked our environment more than Essendon.

Apart from that , when he rightfully wanted to leave Essendon, after they poisoned him, they did everything in their power to block him moving.

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

Horrible and boring game.
The AFL's manufactured club did not show up at all. What a s**t fight. Saints would have done better.

 

[bird_man]

Let's remember Davis was injured. Like I said earlier he shouldn't have played.

If ross was coaching them I doubt they make a grand final tbh. Hell even finals.

I think GWS did change things in the area that was the root cause of all their issues. The midfield. But it didn't do anything. Hence the score. For example green was moved onto the ball.

I mean do you really think they didn't try anything?

Speak to any coach and they will tell you there's not a lot you can do during game. It's like 5% in terms of impact.

GWS got absolutely walloped because they were essentially the 5th best side of the year but because they played above themselves they managed to cause 2 upsets to get into it.

Dimma didn't win this final on match day coaching. He's won it because of their system over the last 10 years. Coupled with how he's coached the side since round 1. He clearly had an emphasis of coaching towards the grand final and peaking at the right time.

GWS had the reverse of their year list wise. Had a healthy list ended up in disrepair.

No I'm not saying they didn't try anything, but whatever they did wasn't effective at all.

I've been coaching footy for several years and whilst it's obviously at a different level I agree there isn't as much you can do during the game but 5% is over the top. Look at how Clarkson is able to upset sides with an average list just through some fantastic tactical plans.

I also agree thar Dimma has been able to get them where they were through months of planning and working out an amazing system. That is my point with GWS, that system has never been there with them. They rely too heavily on talent to win games and the talent is there, no doubt. Talent got them to where they were. A lack of a quality plan and a great system like Richmond meant they were only able to kick a grand total of 3 goals which is unnaceptable.

If Cameron is a good coach, then even if they do get Ward and Cogs back, they need to change things up.

 

[StCicatriz]

No I'm not saying they didn't try anything, but whatever they did wasn't effective at all.

I've been coaching footy for several years and whilst it's obviously at a different level I agree there isn't as much you can do during the game but 5% is over the top. Look at how Clarkson is able to upset sides with an average list just through some fantastic tactical plans.

I also agree thar Dimma has been able to get them where they were through months of planning and working out an amazing system. That is my point with GWS, that system has never been there with them. They rely too heavily on talent to win games and the talent is there, no doubt. Talent got them to where they were. A lack of a quality plan and a great system like Richmond meant they were only able to kick a grand total of 3 goals which is unnaceptable.

If Cameron is a good coach, then even if they do get Ward and Cogs back, they need to change things up.

You must know more than actual AFL coaches. That figure came from a senior coach. Who broke down influence on a game. I think it was Paul Roos from memory. Remember he had rossy working with him.

I just can't see what GWS could have done yesterday outside of what they had already tried.

They looked cooked. Then gave up. Which just gives more credence to how small match day coaching influences a game.

I don't see who's a better alternative to coach them either.

I think they turned a corner this year. Instead of relying on talent. They scrapped it out. Real workmans like performance. That turned a 5th placing into a 2nd.

Their defence was incredible.

If I was to rate their season it was an A- for the talent they have. Their injuries etc.

I Just don't get how people can rate them so highly for their performances over the last 3 week's yet then claim they under performed because of yesterday. If the coaching was no good they wouldn't have even made a grand final.

 

[bird_man]

You must know more than actual AFL coaches. That figure came from a senior coach. Who broke down influence on a game. I think it was Paul Roos from memory. Remember he had rossy working with him.

I just can't see what GWS could have done yesterday outside of what they had already tried.

They looked cooked. Then gave up. Which just gives more credence to how small match day coaching influences a game.

I don't see who's a better alternative to coach them either.

I think they turned a corner this year. Instead of relying on talent. They scrapped it out. Real workmans like performance. That turned a 5th placing into a 2nd.

Their defence was incredible.

If I was to rate their season it was an A- for the talent they have. Their injuries etc.

I Just don't get how people can rate them so highly for their performances over the last 3 week's yet then claim they under performed because of yesterday. If the coaching was no good they wouldn't have even made a grand final.

I think we can disagree with AFL coaches and or experts without bringing out the old "you must know more than an AFL coach" line. Otherwise it'd be a pretty boring forum.

Let's move on, happy to agree to disagree.

 

[Saintbloke]

Possibly the least interesting GF I can remember. I would rather see the AFL stop pouring money into expanding, and spend a bit a bit more on clubs like us- we would have done better than GWS.

 

[Diehard Saint]

You must know more than actual AFL coaches. That figure came from a senior coach. Who broke down influence on a game. I think it was Paul Roos from memory. Remember he had rossy working with him.

I just can't see what GWS could have done yesterday outside of what they had already tried.

They looked cooked. Then gave up. Which just gives more credence to how small match day coaching influences a game.

I don't see who's a better alternative to coach them either.

I think they turned a corner this year. Instead of relying on talent. They scrapped it out. Real workmans like performance. That turned a 5th placing into a 2nd.

Their defence was incredible.

If I was to rate their season it was an A- for the talent they have. Their injuries etc.

I Just don't get how people can rate them so highly for their performances over the last 3 week's yet then claim they under performed because of yesterday. If the coaching was no good they wouldn't have even made a grand final.

Finlayson got one touch, after a great season.
How on earth does that happen?
I think the manner of this loss will destroy their confidence way more than a well fought loss.

 

[George]

Agreed, I think it'd be absolutely demoralizing for the players given the nature of the loss. Their lowest ever score comes in a Grand Final. One goal to half time.

I think the hurt and grief of losing a close one would spur them on for the year after, similar to us from 09 to 10. But knowing they may never make it back here, and being so resoundingly beaten I think would haunt them for potentially the rest of their careers.

 

[George]

Tom Lynch: "I just love this football club"

FMD. he's basically the equivilant of a band Wagoner. Jumped onto an already strong club. Contributed not much. Walks away with a flag.

Have no issues with the likes of Dusty jroo cotch etc. But pumping up lynch is a bit rich.

Kicked 63 goals this year and played every game after 8 long seasons at the Suns where he stayed as loyal as he could. "Contributed not much" is a harsh comment.

Shouldn't criticise him for A) Doing what is best for him and B) Wanting success.

 

[TassieSaint]

Worst and most boring grand final in my life time. Just a complete non-event start to finish. Glad the Giants got flogged but other than that, meh.

 

[Keg on legs]

Happens every year... i wake up on the Sunday after a GF flat as a tack that so many of my mates have seen their team win a flag and yet here I am, still waiting.

It's bloody hard being a sainter sometimes.

Why in God's name can't we get a GF opponent as inept as GWS was yesterday. I swear the God's conspire against us

 

[Greg1853]

Happens every year... i wake up on the Sunday after a GF flat as a tack that so many of my mates have seen their team win a flag and yet here I am, still waiting.

It's bloody hard being a sainter sometimes.

Why in God's name can't we get a GF opponent as inept as GWS was yesterday. I swear the God's conspire against us

I'm with you Kegs. Every one of my in-laws gloating this morning. The same people who told me to get over it a day after the 2010 replay. I am the calmest of persons, in most situations, but the dam wall is close to bursting