Autopsy 2nd Elimination Final, 2023: St.Kilda v GWS *WEBSTER 150TH* *BATTLE 100TH*

[beside the seaside]

Interesting to hear he regretted not bringing in Howard for Membrey.

Also interesting to hear him say that the effort and intensity were lacking for pretty much the first time this season. Felt they could have done better in the way they managed the week, but obviously adverse circumstances also played their part.

Really exciting to hear him talk about the need to improve stoppage and clearance work. Can't wait for next year.

 

[NextYearPlease]

My wife says she's never coming to footy again but has cracked the shits with her friend who follows Collingwood because she sent a text saying that we have to sack Lyon because we'll never kick a winning score with him in charge. Everyone else has caught up to Lyon. Everyone locks down these days.

But we were the third highest score for the weekend and scored more than Collingwood.

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[sunny3193]

1 week

It’s going to draaaaaaaaag.

 

[gringo2011]

But we were the third highest score for the weekend and scored more than Collingwood.

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Once people get bullshit in their heads they can't see past it. Lyon's teams from 2009 and 2010 would be high scoring now.

 

[puppy_dog7]

Maybe some of the other non ball getting mids could have given a chop out, just a thought.

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So Steeley gets a free pass from not defending cos he was the only one winning the footy? Yeah right…
It takes an entire midfield group to put pressure on the ball carrier and prevent easy clearance and transition. They were all s**t in that regard.

 

[Joffaboy]

So Steeley gets a free pass from not defending cos he was the only one winning the footy? Yeah right…
It takes an entire midfield group to put pressure on the ball carrier and prevent easy clearance and transition. They were all s**t in that regard.

What free pass, Steele did his job, got a career high 38 possessions, what were Crouch, Ross, Phillipou, Clark and the rest doing?
You can't do the lot.
I understand I popped your narrative, but facts are facts. Steele played a lone hand, but you still want to bag him. Good one champ.

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[Saintbloke]

I'm glad Lyon has identified clearance and stoppage work as needing improvement- it has been ordinary this season, and maybe the line coaches will be under scrutiny. The midfield failed miserably, but any player in a final who collects 38 possessions is probably bringing the required intensity and just needs his midfield colleagues to do the same, but this time around they didn't.
It was a mistake bringing another young tall whose form had dropped back, in for a final in place of Tim. Stocker's strong body work and agility was an obvious plus when subbed on. Anyway- onto 2024 we go.

 

[AirWinmar]

And not sure we can have King, Hammer and Sharman all up forward , they already get in each others way , Hammer could be the Jake lever type

I thought Hammer was diabolical in the 1st half. Think he spoiled about 4 marks from his team mates in the 1st half.

 

[EddieMurphy]

I thought Hammer was diabolical in the 1st half. Think he spoiled about 4 marks from his team mates in the 1st half.

Very noticeable, along with some missed tackles by Cooper.

 

[gringo2011]

What free pass, Steele did his job, got a career high 38 possessions, what were Crouch, Ross, Phillipou, Clark and the rest doing?
You can't do the lot.
I understand I popped your narrative, but facts are facts. Steele played a lone hand, but you still want to bag him. Good one champ.

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GWS did what all sides have done to beat us this year. Get the ball to the outside quickly and move it too fast for us to set up ahead of it. You can't tackle what you can't catch. Collingwood are very good at it too.

 

[St Kilda Death]

GWS did what all sides have done to beat us this year. Get the ball to the outside quickly and move it too fast for us to set up ahead of it. You can't tackle what you can't catch. Collingwood are very good at it too.

Like Collingwood, gws full of talented footballers, one of the best at that fast end to end ball movement.

We need to shut down the clearances to stop that, otherwise we are in a shootout like the first half last week and the talent rises to the top.

 

[The Punter]

So my longer thoughts on the guys who played:

Gresham - his best patch was our best patch. He's finished the season well, and I think if he leaves at some stage we will regret it.
Crouch - you think he would be made for finals, but was hardly sighted. A shame
Ross - says he wasn't affected by Membrey developments but he was fumbly more than most.
NWM - When we win a flag, he's a very good bet for the Norm Smith. A fantastic year, and he was good again on Saturday. Already a star
Hill - a bloke actually built for finals and the wide open space of the MCG. Was my best on Saturday.
Steele - was he ever like "Bont elite"? I think he is an exceptional ordinary footballer. It was a 10 out of 10 performance from him Saturday, and we're foolish to expect better from him
Owens - this will be true for a few, but the season got too long for him. Will only improve. Needs to work on kicking.
Clark - showed glimpses on Saturday, but it's been that way for a while.
King - With a full pre-season and the decisions Curnow gets, could kick 120 in a season. Just needs a decent run at it next year.
Stocker - should have been in the starting 22 on reflection.
Butler - teased but just didn't hunt enough. A disappointing end to his best season since 2020.
Windhager - need him in the midfield rotation as he has a unique way of getting out of congestion then rarely wastes it. This bloke is the Seb Ross replacement IMO
Marshall - a phenomenal effort, but as usual, his opponent gets to eat. We're not going to do better than Marshall in the ruck, and he's never shown great form as a forward.
Cordy - I would have picked Cordy over Howard before the match, and I would have regretted it.
Higgins - Really fell away after the dropped mark against Hawthorn. Needs arms around him all the time it would seem like, but he's a unique talent worth persisting with. Not sighted much on Saturday.
Phillipou - see Owens, but all reports are he might be the first bloke back at the club after off-season. This guy is the superstar who will put us over the top. Wants to be the best player in the league and knows he has to work harder than everyone to get there.
Battle - Very good game. I am not in the camp where we move him from CHB to accommodate another player. Would move others on before Battle
Webster - Probably also affected by the Membrey stuff (they're best mates), and then didn't get a crack at Greene. Things out of his control worked against him in his first final, but if we're being brutally honest (and I love Webster), Paton should move past him next year
Wood - Didn't really get into the game
Sinclair - Surprisingly fumbly and timid.
Sharman - you know how some blokes are a barometer? This bloke is the opposite - seems to play well despite how the rest of the team is doing. As I have said many times, he learns how to get to 15 disposals per game, he'll be elite
Wilkie - Not served well by the match up choice. Plenty of credits in the bank however.
Caminiti - Would have woken up Saturday morning thinking he was having a day at the footy then finds out he's playing a final. He gets a pass.

 

[Diehard Saint]

GWS did what all sides have done to beat us this year. Get the ball to the outside quickly and move it too fast for us to set up ahead of it. You can't tackle what you can't catch. Collingwood are very good at it too.

Like Collingwood, gws full of talented footballers, one of the best at that fast end to end ball movement.

We need to shut down the clearances to stop that, otherwise we are in a shootout like the first half last week and the talent rises to the top.

All of which you can have no doubt that Ross and the coaching team will have noted.

Their pre-season will certainly be concentrating on that.
They've identified the need for speed - hence Henry, and the need for winning contested ball and clearances - hence Dow, as a start.

 

[St Kilda Death]

All of which you can have no doubt that Ross and the coaching team will have noted.

Their pre-season will certainly be concentrating on that.
They've identified the need for speed - hence Henry, and the need for winning contested ball and clearances - hence Dow, as a start.

A great start Diehard, and I’m sure it’s only a start.

 

[Diehard Saint]

So my longer thoughts on the guys who played:

Gresham - his best patch was our best patch. He's finished the season well, and I think if he leaves at some stage we will regret it.
Crouch - you think he would be made for finals, but was hardly sighted. A shame
Ross - says he wasn't affected by Membrey developments but he was fumbly more than most.
NWM - When we win a flag, he's a very good bet for the Norm Smith. A fantastic year, and he was good again on Saturday. Already a star
Hill - a bloke actually built for finals and the wide open space of the MCG. Was my best on Saturday.
Steele - was he ever like "Bont elite"? I think he is an exceptional ordinary footballer. It was a 10 out of 10 performance from him Saturday, and we're foolish to expect better from him
Owens - this will be true for a few, but the season got too long for him. Will only improve. Needs to work on kicking.
Clark - showed glimpses on Saturday, but it's been that way for a while.
King - With a full pre-season and the decisions Curnow gets, could kick 120 in a season. Just needs a decent run at it next year.
Stocker - should have been in the starting 22 on reflection.
Butler - teased but just didn't hunt enough. A disappointing end to his best season since 2020.
Windhager - need him in the midfield rotation as he has a unique way of getting out of congestion then rarely wastes it. This bloke is the Seb Ross replacement IMO
Marshall - a phenomenal effort, but as usual, his opponent gets to eat. We're not going to do better than Marshall in the ruck, and he's never shown great form as a forward.
Cordy - I would have picked Cordy over Howard before the match, and I would have regretted it.
Higgins - Really fell away after the dropped mark against Hawthorn. Needs arms around him all the time it would seem like, but he's a unique talent worth persisting with. Not sighted much on Saturday.
Phillipou - see Owens, but all reports are he might be the first bloke back at the club after off-season. This guy is the superstar who will put us over the top. Wants to be the best player in the league and knows he has to work harder than everyone to get there.
Battle - Very good game. I am not in the camp where we move him from CHB to accommodate another player. Would move others on before Battle
Webster - Probably also affected by the Membrey stuff (they're best mates), and then didn't get a crack at Greene. Things out of his control worked against him in his first final, but if we're being brutally honest (and I love Webster), Paton should move past him next year
Wood - Didn't really get into the game
Sinclair - Surprisingly fumbly and timid.
Sharman - you know how some blokes are a barometer? This bloke is the opposite - seems to play well despite how the rest of the team is doing. As I have said many times, he learns how to get to 15 disposals per game, he'll be elite
Wilkie - Not served well by the match up choice. Plenty of credits in the bank however.
Caminiti - Would have woken up Saturday morning thinking he was having a day at the footy then finds out he's playing a final. He gets a pass.

Agree 100%
Very good summation.

Think Sincs would have been another one affected by Tim. That game was totally unlike him.
I know King had a very interrupted year, but would like to see him put on a little more bulk in the off season so he's not pushed around quite so easily.
Would like the club to request a couple more games at the G next season.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

On SEN this morning they were discussing tackling etc, mainly as related to injury.
What pricked my ears, was Buckley saying that when Chris Mayne came to Collingwood, he got stuck into him about his tackling. Then according to Chris, they'd done minimal training with tackling at Freo, because Lyon had wanted to avoid potential injury at training.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So my longer thoughts on the guys who played:

Gresham - his best patch was our best patch. He's finished the season well, and I think if he leaves at some stage we will regret it.
Crouch - you think he would be made for finals, but was hardly sighted. A shame
Ross - says he wasn't affected by Membrey developments but he was fumbly more than most.
NWM - When we win a flag, he's a very good bet for the Norm Smith. A fantastic year, and he was good again on Saturday. Already a star
Hill - a bloke actually built for finals and the wide open space of the MCG. Was my best on Saturday.
Steele - was he ever like "Bont elite"? I think he is an exceptional ordinary footballer. It was a 10 out of 10 performance from him Saturday, and we're foolish to expect better from him
Owens - this will be true for a few, but the season got too long for him. Will only improve. Needs to work on kicking.
Clark - showed glimpses on Saturday, but it's been that way for a while.
King - With a full pre-season and the decisions Curnow gets, could kick 120 in a season. Just needs a decent run at it next year.
Stocker - should have been in the starting 22 on reflection.
Butler - teased but just didn't hunt enough. A disappointing end to his best season since 2020.
Windhager - need him in the midfield rotation as he has a unique way of getting out of congestion then rarely wastes it. This bloke is the Seb Ross replacement IMO
Marshall - a phenomenal effort, but as usual, his opponent gets to eat. We're not going to do better than Marshall in the ruck, and he's never shown great form as a forward.
Cordy - I would have picked Cordy over Howard before the match, and I would have regretted it.
Higgins - Really fell away after the dropped mark against Hawthorn. Needs arms around him all the time it would seem like, but he's a unique talent worth persisting with. Not sighted much on Saturday.
Phillipou - see Owens, but all reports are he might be the first bloke back at the club after off-season. This guy is the superstar who will put us over the top. Wants to be the best player in the league and knows he has to work harder than everyone to get there.
Battle - Very good game. I am not in the camp where we move him from CHB to accommodate another player. Would move others on before Battle
Webster - Probably also affected by the Membrey stuff (they're best mates), and then didn't get a crack at Greene. Things out of his control worked against him in his first final, but if we're being brutally honest (and I love Webster), Paton should move past him next year
Wood - Didn't really get into the game
Sinclair - Surprisingly fumbly and timid.
Sharman - you know how some blokes are a barometer? This bloke is the opposite - seems to play well despite how the rest of the team is doing. As I have said many times, he learns how to get to 15 disposals per game, he'll be elite
Wilkie - Not served well by the match up choice. Plenty of credits in the bank however.
Caminiti - Would have woken up Saturday morning thinking he was having a day at the footy then finds out he's playing a final. He gets a pass.

IMO if a fit Membrey had played we win.
Not to worry, probably out in the next round anyway, and whatever he's facing is more important than a game.

 

[Diehard Saint]

On SEN this morning they were discussing tackling etc, mainly as related to injury.
What pricked my ears, was Buckley saying that when Chris Mayne came to Collingwood, he got stuck into him about his tackling. Then according to Chris, they'd done minimal training with tackling at Freo, because Lyon had wanted to avoid potential injury at training.

Probably why he was so p...d off with Howard after he did Max's shoulder.

 

[gringo2011]

All of which you can have no doubt that Ross and the coaching team will have noted.

Their pre-season will certainly be concentrating on that.
They've identified the need for speed - hence Henry, and the need for winning contested ball and clearances - hence Dow, as a start.

Not just speed though, first use and spread as well. We really need to build a lit around Lyon's game plan or try to adapt to what we have. You can't just make players win first use. We are frustratingly close but a long way away still. Not sure cutting bak the list hard is the best way to create a list. GWS got lots of their best impact players cheap. They are a gun side now instead of a side full of stars.

 

[gringo2011]

Agree 100%
Very good summation.

Think Sincs would have been another one affected by Tim. That game was totally unlike him.
I know King had a very interrupted year, but would like to see him put on a little more bulk in the off season so he's not pushed around quite so easily.
Would like the club to request a couple more games at the G next season.

Phil Davis suid on radio that they were basically going to target Sincs because he's the key to our whole game. They didn't let him get free. We moved him to the midfield to get him into the game and they still went with him. Probably an honour to be considered worthy of stopping.

 

[gringo2011]

IMO if a fit Membrey had played we win.
Not to worry, probably out in the next round anyway, and whatever he's facing is more important than a game.

We lost it out of the middle. Unless you're saying that we would have been more psychologically ready.

 

[The Punter]

Agree 100%
Very good summation.

Think Sincs would have been another one affected by Tim. That game was totally unlike him.
I know King had a very interrupted year, but would like to see him put on a little more bulk in the off season so he's not pushed around quite so easily.
Would like the club to request a couple more games at the G next season.

Hadn't thought of Sincs - they arrived at the club at the same time, almost the same age.
Agree on King as long as it doesn't rob him of the advantages he already possesses.
I think we get on the MCG more than twice next season.

IMO if a fit Membrey had played we win.
Not to worry, probably out in the next round anyway, and whatever he's facing is more important than a game.

We need to keep in mind how well GWS played. Membrey would have done better than Caminiti to be sure, but I'm not sure what effect it would have had on the result. Here's wishing Members all the best.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We lost it out of the middle. Unless you're saying that we would have been more psychologically ready.

That, and i think he would have made our forward line more coherent.
( And our forward line had major issues in that game ).

 

[MordySaint]

RTB on 360 tonight.
Worth a watch if anyone can post it.
Provides a little end of season closure for me.

You can see he’s bitterly disappointed. In himself as much as the team. He obviously expected more from the team, which in a way is quite heartening because he believes we are capable of doing better.

Talks Gresham, dealing with the Membrey news, the aftermath of the game - exit interviews etc. Pretty enlightening .

I was interested in the Gresham talk, did he say that Jade requested to be played in certain positions/roles on the ground and that it worked sometimes and then sometimes it didn't.

I find it very interesting that a player can request the position/role that they want to play.

 

[BigMonty]

So my longer thoughts on the guys who played:

Gresham - his best patch was our best patch. He's finished the season well, and I think if he leaves at some stage we will regret it.
Crouch - you think he would be made for finals, but was hardly sighted. A shame
Ross - says he wasn't affected by Membrey developments but he was fumbly more than most.
NWM - When we win a flag, he's a very good bet for the Norm Smith. A fantastic year, and he was good again on Saturday. Already a star
Hill - a bloke actually built for finals and the wide open space of the MCG. Was my best on Saturday.
Steele - was he ever like "Bont elite"? I think he is an exceptional ordinary footballer. It was a 10 out of 10 performance from him Saturday, and we're foolish to expect better from him
Owens - this will be true for a few, but the season got too long for him. Will only improve. Needs to work on kicking.
Clark - showed glimpses on Saturday, but it's been that way for a while.
King - With a full pre-season and the decisions Curnow gets, could kick 120 in a season. Just needs a decent run at it next year.
Stocker - should have been in the starting 22 on reflection.
Butler - teased but just didn't hunt enough. A disappointing end to his best season since 2020.
Windhager - need him in the midfield rotation as he has a unique way of getting out of congestion then rarely wastes it. This bloke is the Seb Ross replacement IMO
Marshall - a phenomenal effort, but as usual, his opponent gets to eat. We're not going to do better than Marshall in the ruck, and he's never shown great form as a forward.
Cordy - I would have picked Cordy over Howard before the match, and I would have regretted it.
Higgins - Really fell away after the dropped mark against Hawthorn. Needs arms around him all the time it would seem like, but he's a unique talent worth persisting with. Not sighted much on Saturday.
Phillipou - see Owens, but all reports are he might be the first bloke back at the club after off-season. This guy is the superstar who will put us over the top. Wants to be the best player in the league and knows he has to work harder than everyone to get there.
Battle - Very good game. I am not in the camp where we move him from CHB to accommodate another player. Would move others on before Battle
Webster - Probably also affected by the Membrey stuff (they're best mates), and then didn't get a crack at Greene. Things out of his control worked against him in his first final, but if we're being brutally honest (and I love Webster), Paton should move past him next year
Wood - Didn't really get into the game
Sinclair - Surprisingly fumbly and timid.
Sharman - you know how some blokes are a barometer? This bloke is the opposite - seems to play well despite how the rest of the team is doing. As I have said many times, he learns how to get to 15 disposals per game, he'll be elite
Wilkie - Not served well by the match up choice. Plenty of credits in the bank however.
Caminiti - Would have woken up Saturday morning thinking he was having a day at the footy then finds out he's playing a final. He gets a pass.

About Caminiti, I just get this vibe that he is going to be better suited at CHB. He has the wreckitralph attitude to the contests and that stuffed up about 4 marks inside 50.
Our fwd 50 leading patterns are shocking but that is to be expected as we have half a fwd line with less than 100 games combined experience.
Last qtr 2 on 1 and we both lead to the same spot marked spilled GWS goal going the other way.

Sharman is a pure forward and a starting fwd next year.

King got his hands to plenty but could not make them stick....that's the shoulder issue I reckon...he holds half of them and we are right in it especially if Caminiti is not cannoning into him about 3 or 4 times.

Butler I like, but he is a smart footballer and does some smart things but would like him to do more of it...even if it is more vanilla....we need more production from that position and the same with Higgins, he has too many games where there is little to no contribution. They either improve or others will go past them...just who that is a guess. Hotton will have to getva go next year likely in that spot.

The comment about Wilkie and Selwood, Selwood would have played 5 games against him enough to know his capabilities as a leader.

GWS won because Kelly showed his class the goal on the run in the second was sublime look at Battle's (great game) reaction...if was like oh ffs.

Their second stringers Idun and Callum Browne killed us with their size and speed....that was the difference.

Thought the sad but funny thing I saw was Owens in the ruck bouncing off Flynn... boys and men came to mind.

Would have liked to see Stocker have ago at minding Toby Greene. He has some mung in him to get under Toby's skin. Wilkie was trying to do two things in the back line and did neither of them particularly well....lesson learned.

Whilst Gresh played well not sure he is the right fit anymore in our team.

Get Dow in if he is good enough he plays and will add a POD to the onballers...Henry will add more speed with the ball in hand which is a good thing.

One year older and another pre season to our Bairns will only improve us next year.

Go Saints







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