AFL Grand Final Grand Final, 2021: Melbourne v Western Bulldogs

Who will be premiers?

  • Melbourne

    Votes: 15 65.2%

  • Western Bulldogs

    Votes: 8 34.8%
  • Total voters
    23

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lewdogs said:
Mate it was the concensus at the time that it was a shocking decision, 95% of us agreed. Some of us are just tired of going over it again and again.
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I wanted Petracca over McCartin, look at me, look at me, I made a correct call nearly a decade ago.
I am a genius.
 
Yep, we missed Petracca & Bontempelli. Bont was a bit of a flier though, never in the conversation.

Melbourne missed on Nic Nat, then Dusty twice. They took Lucas Cook two picks before the Crows got Brodie Smith.

They took Jimmy Toumpas in 2012. The next 3 picks were Stringer, Macrae & Wines.

2013 they gave up pick #2 for Dom Tyson & pick #9. Pick #2 was Josh Kelly. They nailed the Salem pick but it took a while for him to develop. If they picked Nathan Freeman or Ben Lennon it might have been another disaster.

2015 they get Sam Weiderman the pick before Harry McKay.

Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw & Salem are the early picks they "nailed" but all four of them had question marks at stages and had to be DEVELOPED!

Pickett has been a good small forward from day 1. Jackson is a special talent, who is also learning from the best ruck in the comp. These two picks were spot on.

That's 2 picks from 13 that have walked in with immediate impact. 4 more picks have been developed over a number of years. 6 picks from 13. Less than half.

So yeah, we missed on Petracca & Bontempelli.

Get the * over it & let's focus on the DEVELOPMENT of the guys we do have!

Coff, Clark, King, Marshall, Higgins, Sinclair, Sharman, Gresham, Wilkie, Highmore, Paton, Byrnes, Bytel... All with another level to get to.

Steele is elite. Hill looks to have found his groove.

Jack Billings is staying. People might hate it but if his peak is 'Gus Brayshaw wingman' well then that's what we work with towards a flag. No point whinging that he's not Toby Greene.

Same with Seb Ross. If he's our 'James Harmes' then that's what he is. Again, no point complaining that he's not running at 75% kicking efficiency.

Work within the limitations, accentuate the positives and focus on DEVELOPMENT rather than "nailing the pick".
 

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Sarcoidevo said:
No surprise that the team with the least amount of injuries to their core group wins the Premiership
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It's hardly been mentioned here but it's such an absolutely crucial part of the mix if your a good to very good side.
 
pebblesofsand said:
I think I'm part of Georges 95% but I do know two things about the AFL competition in 2020's.

The difference between 1st and last is not as great as people think and

most of the difference is above the shoulders.
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There is definitely some of that mental stuff but the list is important. Too many Saints went backwards or injured and we probably over achieved in the end. Carlton, St Kilda, Essendon, Sydney, WCE and Freo are all around the same level this year. The two best teams this year made the GF and the best side won it. Probably the most straight forward outcome for ages to be honest. Geelong, Brisbane and Port aren't heaps ahead of our group and with luck we could definitely swap places with one.

The trick is to be so good that you guarantee your place and don't rely on luck. We are still paying for the past but there are no mistakes, only lessons. Burning your hands teaches you not to lift a hot pot. You don't stop eating. People mistake criticism for negativity. It's just moving forward not repeating history.

Our improvement long term needs players to step up a level. We don't want to just artificially jump up to top 4 and go straight out. We want to build a strategically structured list that has us challenging for 5 years. That's the best chance of winning our second flag.
 
L_W_P said:
Yep, we missed Petracca & Bontempelli. Bont was a bit of a flier though, never in the conversation.

Melbourne missed on Nic Nat, then Dusty twice. They took Lucas Cook two picks before the Crows got Brodie Smith.

They took Jimmy Toumpas in 2012. The next 3 picks were Stringer, Macrae & Wines.

2013 they gave up pick #2 for Dom Tyson & pick #9. Pick #2 was Josh Kelly. They nailed the Salem pick but it took a while for him to develop. If they picked Nathan Freeman or Ben Lennon it might have been another disaster.

2015 they get Sam Weiderman the pick before Harry McKay.

Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw & Salem are the early picks they "nailed" but all four of them had question marks at stages and had to be DEVELOPED!

Pickett has been a good small forward from day 1. Jackson is a special talent, who is also learning from the best ruck in the comp. These two picks were spot on.

That's 2 picks from 13 that have walked in with immediate impact. 4 more picks have been developed over a number of years. 6 picks from 13. Less than half.

So yeah, we missed on Petracca & Bontempelli.

Get the fu** over it & let's focus on the DEVELOPMENT of the guys we do have!

Coff, Clark, King, Marshall, Higgins, Sinclair, Sharman, Gresham, Wilkie, Highmore, Paton, Byrnes, Bytel... All with another level to get to.

Steele is elite. Hill looks to have found his groove.

Jack Billings is staying. People might hate it but if his peak is 'Gus Brayshaw wingman' well then that's what we work with towards a flag. No point whinging that he's not Toby Greene.

Same with Seb Ross. If he's our 'James Harmes' then that's what he is. Again, no point complaining that he's not running at 75% kicking efficiency.

Work within the limitations, accentuate the positives and focus on DEVELOPMENT rather than "nailing the pick".
Click to expand...
Really good objective post.
 
George said:
I don't see how it's out of the question that we can be one of those sides next year.
Click to expand...

I think the list at its' best is a contender. When looking to next year I find that many supporters predict on the basis that player X and player y are going to be better next year and so will the team. What they rarely factor is that every other club is talking the same way. So we don't have to find 5%...in reality we probably need 10% to leap frog other challengers. I am pretty OK with the list. I am not sure the footy department has the talent to find that 10%.

On the plus side, there does not seem to be any scary stand out teams at the moment. Lots of good teams but you feel that on our day we can match it and beat anyone.

Can the footy department - with game plan, injury management and peak performance coaching get us there?
 
Ricmel said:
I think the list at its' best is a contender. When looking to next year I find that many supporters predict on the basis that player X and player y are going to be better next year and so will the team. What they rarely factor is that every other club is talking the same way. So we don't have to find 5%...in reality we probably need 10% to leap frog other challengers. I am pretty OK with the list. I am not sure the footy department has the talent to find that 10%.

On the plus side, there does not seem to be and scary stand out teams at the moment. Lots of good teams but you feel that on our day we can match it and beat anyone.

Can the footy department - with game plan, injury management and peak performance coaching get us there?
Click to expand...
But some sides up the top will plummet aswell. Geelong look primed for it and put a 10er on the Dogs to miss the 8 next year. I listened to an interview from an ex player a little while ago and he said the thrashing his side copped in a GF psychologically ruined the group. I think it was a Melbourne player after the 2000 GF. I think getting thrashed in big finals can mess with a side. Port are in that boat too.

I said before I hope Melbourne's win spurs us on. That might not be consciously, but I reckon the club knowing that they are now in last place might do something to the psyche of the club / players.

I don't know what to expect next year. All these examples of sides coming from nowhere gives me hope. And we have finals experience which is invaluable.
 
Ricmel said:
I think the list at its' best is a contender. When looking to next year I find that many supporters predict on the basis that player X and player y are going to be better next year and so will the team. What they rarely factor is that every other club is talking the same way. So we don't have to find 5%...in reality we probably need 10% to leap frog other challengers. I am pretty OK with the list. I am not sure the footy department has the talent to find that 10%.

On the plus side, there does not seem to be and scary stand out teams at the moment. Lots of good teams but you feel that on our day we can match it and beat anyone.

Can the footy department - with game plan, injury management and peak performance coaching get us there?
Click to expand...


Dees and Dogs look like dynasty teams coming through. Geelong look old and tired, Richmond is hard to read, they had injury and had to rely on youth, WC look old and cooked, Brisbane are still going to be good, Port look a top 8 side but just off the top sides. Essendon, Carlton, Saints, GWS are all waiting to move up.

Sides below them in GC, North, Adelaide and Hawks all look like they could step up into that middle pool too.

It's hard to know where the next 5 year will go. GWS have good player and look like they should be achieving much more than they are. Saints could stay fit and develop, Carlton could finally click etc.
 
Ricmel said:
Yes - and the club needs to be reminded of it all the time because our history is littered with unbelievably stupid decisions starting with swapping Ian Stewart for Billy Barrot. In reality our last 60 years has not been a lack of talent on the park it has been a lack of talent off-field. A failure of club administrators and football department to put the time in to research and strategise a long term tilt at a flag.
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Dunno about that, I thought the road to 2018 was very well thought out.
 
Joffaboy said:
I wanted Petracca over McCartin, look at me, look at me, I made a correct call nearly a decade ago.
I am a genius.
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to boast about it, I'm saying that everyone agreed it wasn't the correct call. I'm just sick of talking about it, Trout is long gone along with Richo there's really not much more we can do but everyone seems to want to go over it again and again because it gives them some kind of sick joy to wallow in misery.

Everyone makes mistakes at the draft, as pointed out the Dees have made plenty.
 
Ricmel said:
I get it and I am not trying to re-hash the "why, why, why" conversation. It is just the easiest example of the clubs inept decision making to illustrate the clubs inept decision making. Maybe moving to Seaford is a less inflammatory example!!!
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Well we left Seaford and Trout is gone. There's not much more we can do than learn from mistakes.
 
Even though we now have the longest premiership drought and Petracca rubbed it in by winning the Norm Smith I'm still glad that the Dees won.

The alternative of seeing those ducking and diving Bulldogs cheats win another flag was far worse.
 

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lewdogs said:
I'm not trying to boast about it, I'm saying that everyone agreed it wasn't the correct call. I'm just sick of talking about it, Trout is long gone along with Richo there's really not much more we can do but everyone seems to want to go over it again and again because it gives them some kind of sick joy to wallow in misery.

Everyone makes mistakes at the draft, as pointed out the Dees have made plenty.
Click to expand...


It will disappear if we get back to playing finals. It's not sick joy, it's pain from missing out. It's like selling you property and finding out the guy that bought it sold it to a developer for 100 times what you got for it without doing anything. I feel gutted thinking about it, coming on here and venting seems like something to do with that pain. I may take it all a bit too seriously.

Melbourne and Richmond fans have been exactly the same in the past. Funny enough as soon as you're not s**t all the pain and disappointment dissipates.

My Tiger mates are already back to full on pessimism and everything they've done in theist 4 years is under scrutiny. That's footy for you. My Hawks mate couldn't wait to shove Clarko out. Footy fans are ungracious campaigners, get over it.
 
gringo2011 said:
It will disappear if we get back to playing finals. It's not sick joy, it's pain from missing out. It's like selling you property and finding out the guy that bought it sold it to a developer for 100 times what you got for it without doing anything. I feel gutted thinking about it, coming on here and venting seems like something to do with that pain. I may take it all a bit too seriously.

Melbourne and Richmond fans have been exactly the same in the past. Funny enough as soon as you're not sh*t all the pain and disappointment dissipates.

My Tiger mates are already back to full on pessimism and everything they've done in theist 4 years is under scrutiny. That's footy for you. My Hawks mate couldn't wait to shove Clarko out. Footy fans are ungracious campaigners, get over it.
Click to expand...
You're spot on. It's what made last year so enjoyable.
 
L_W_P said:
Yep, we missed Petracca & Bontempelli. Bont was a bit of a flier though, never in the conversation.

Melbourne missed on Nic Nat, then Dusty twice. They took Lucas Cook two picks before the Crows got Brodie Smith.

They took Jimmy Toumpas in 2012. The next 3 picks were Stringer, Macrae & Wines.

2013 they gave up pick #2 for Dom Tyson & pick #9. Pick #2 was Josh Kelly. They nailed the Salem pick but it took a while for him to develop. If they picked Nathan Freeman or Ben Lennon it might have been another disaster.

2015 they get Sam Weiderman the pick before Harry McKay.

Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw & Salem are the early picks they "nailed" but all four of them had question marks at stages and had to be DEVELOPED!

Pickett has been a good small forward from day 1. Jackson is a special talent, who is also learning from the best ruck in the comp. These two picks were spot on.

That's 2 picks from 13 that have walked in with immediate impact. 4 more picks have been developed over a number of years. 6 picks from 13. Less than half.

So yeah, we missed on Petracca & Bontempelli.

Get the fu** over it & let's focus on the DEVELOPMENT of the guys we do have!

Coff, Clark, King, Marshall, Higgins, Sinclair, Sharman, Gresham, Wilkie, Highmore, Paton, Byrnes, Bytel... All with another level to get to.

Steele is elite. Hill looks to have found his groove.

Jack Billings is staying. People might hate it but if his peak is 'Gus Brayshaw wingman' well then that's what we work with towards a flag. No point whinging that he's not Toby Greene.

Same with Seb Ross. If he's our 'James Harmes' then that's what he is. Again, no point complaining that he's not running at 75% kicking efficiency.

Work within the limitations, accentuate the positives and focus on DEVELOPMENT rather than "nailing the pick".
Click to expand...
Good post.

On Billings, that exactly what he is - a Brayshaw. Some supporters need to acknowledge that he isn’t going to & never will be a Toby Greene.

To be fair, I’ve viewed Billings more as a David Zaharakis over the last couple of years. Angus Brayshaw at least will put his body on the line for the team, Jack has shown that he is prone to the occasional ‘pike out’, which for mine is a big reason we are where we are - we carry a few players that really struggle with body contact & ‘going’ when it’s their turn
 
t_94 said:
Bontempelli doesn’t really haunt me to be honest. That was a Dalrymple special so hats off the the dogs there. McCartin over Petracca is the really bad one.
Click to expand...
Exactly. No way was bont going at 3. He was rated about 8. Dogs just picked great. Petracca was a shocking decision not even in hindsight.
 
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