- May 15, 2006
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- The Cobblers who do the Cobbling
Richmond eating their own is so Richmondy
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You can really only judge these things retrospectively, if Dimma was to win a final then he deserves a crack at the next step, if by the end of his career all he did was finish second or third or whatever then he and any coach including Lyon would be considered a failure, not necessarily a s**t coach though, still chance for both of them to turn things around but at this stage neither have achieved the purpose they were hired for.According to your mate Rich01 making finals doesn't matter, it's whether you win a grand final or not. Otherwise you are a s**t coach
So winning a final just doesn't cut it
You dont write the rules the AFL count those flags thats all that matters.1. Firstly I dont count provincial comp premierships like VFL, SANFL, WAFL
2. Even if you did count provincial comp flags - how old are you? What good are premierships won in the 70s to anyone under the age of 60?
You dont write the rules the AFL count those flags thats all that matters.
Like, I said all that matters is winning premierships, and both our clubs have not won one yet in the AFL era, stop acting like you follow a club that has.1. Firstly I dont count provincial comp premierships like VFL, SANFL, WAFL
2. Even if you did count provincial comp flags - how old are you? What good are premierships won in the 70s to anyone under the age of 60?
The topic is whether Hardwick can coach.Like, I said all that matters is winning premierships, and both our clubs have not won one yet in the AFL era, stop acting like you follow a club that has.
Old enough to be able to confidently say that I have seen more success than you, your understanding of what occurred in 1997 is incorrect, the competition never changed, it was just renamed, expansion and contraction of the competition began in 1908 and ha occured at various times since, it was already a national competition prior to the rename from VFL to AFL.1. The 'rule' on that is meaningless. Absolutely meaningless. It is the people's game and is now a national comp.
Some token gesture to appease old VFL clubs is merely that. A token gesture.
2. Nice deflection though. So you think Hardwick is going ok then? That is the topic here. 166* games without a finals win - which is a VFL and AFL all-time record. Seeing you want to count VFL records and all - I guess you need to count that record right?
3. How old are you?
Neither club has, but I know I'd much rather have seen stkilda last 35 years than richmondsLike, I said all that matters is winning premierships, and both our clubs have not won one yet in the AFL era, stop acting like you follow a club that has.
Does arguing over the AFL historical composition make you feel better? Is it relevant in any way as to whether or not Hardwick can coach?Old enough to be able to confidently say that I have seen more success than you, your understanding of what occurred in 1997 is incorrect, the competition never changed, it was just renamed, expansion and contraction of the competition began in 1908 and ha occured at various times since, it was already a national competition prior to the rename from VFL to AFL.
You can really only judge these things retrospectively, if Dimma was to win a final then he deserves a crack at the next step, if by the end of his career all he did was finish second or third or whatever then he and any coach including Lyon would be considered a failure, not necessarily a s**t coach though, still chance for both of them to turn things around but at this stage neither have achieved the purpose they were hired for.
Would you trade their last 50 years for ours, its easy to be selective in this area, the thing you dont seem to get is the history of our clubs in this competition goes back over 100 years and all of it counts.N
Neither club has, but I know I'd much rather have seen stkilda last 35 years than richmonds
Old enough to be able to confidently say that I have seen more success than you, your understanding of what occurred in 1997 is incorrect, the competition never changed, it was just renamed, expansion and contraction of the competition began in 1908 and ha occured at various times since, it was already a national competition prior to the rename from VFL to AFL.
Mate. Seriously!Would you trade their last 50 years for ours, its easy to be selective in this area, the thing you dont seem to get is the history of our clubs in this competition goes back over 100 years and all of it counts.
But Richmond didn't take these opportunities and blew them under pressure and that's what matters.. This is surely due a lot to poor coaching and poor leadership out on the field.We have been in winning positions in the dying minutes of the last three matches, and should of won all three, lost those three by a total of 10 points. We should be sitting on top of the ladder at 8-1, but no everyone is calling for Hardwicks head(my self included yesterday).
Everyone needs to settle down, we will still make the eight, and Hardwick will be judged on wheather we win a final or not.
Of course Hardwick can coach, whether he can coach well enough to win a flag I dont know, that will be judged at the end of his career, can Richo coach as yet we dont know, my first response was to this post of yours, no mention of Hardwick.Q: Can Hardwick coach?
Your Answer: We won a flag in the 1970s!
Not really much of a conversation is it?
Can you see why it is a bit frustrating talking to you?
Being 29 it wouldn't bother me at all.Would you trade their last 50 years for ours, its easy to be selective in this area, the thing you dont seem to get is the history of our clubs in this competition goes back over 100 years and all of it counts.
Believe me if you were old enough to know the pain of losing a GF you might have a different view, there is nothing worse in this game.
That's the issue with Richmond under Hardwick though. His coaching record isn't bad it's just there hasn't been any major success (outside of finishing 5th in 2013) and currently losing matches in such a manner doesn't give a lot of confidence that if Richmond hold a top 8 spot and play finals they would win one under him in what would be his fourth attempt.
Hardwick would be a great assistant coach at any club but as a senior coach if he doesn't get a finals win under his belt this year after eight years as the senior coach that surely has to be it. There is nothing wrong in giving someone else a chance, Bulldogs seemed a long way off when Beveridge was named coach and that worked out very well.
So your 60+ then. Good for you.
I'm 29, a bit over a third of my expected lifespan. We last won a flag 37 years ago. Taking into account that you don't fully experience or appreciate things when your young, someone has to be around 45 to have experienced that, or even just experience having made a grand final. That's over half a person's expected lifespan.
Logically, over half of the population has never seen Richmond do anything of note. Take into account the amount of people who die before 85 and the number of people who have Alzheimer's, and the number of people who have seen Richmond be even an acceptable afl club is quickly diminishing.
And in 20 years time, it will still show Ross Lyon has won the same amount of flags as Hardwick, zero.Hang on a second, you're saying that Ross Lyon has ruined Fremantle? The same Ross Lyon that room them to their first GF and to 4 finals series in a row? The same guy who has dragged them up the ladder this year?
Must be another person you're talking about then....
Yeah because winning the same amount if finals as Fitzroy over the last 30 years, microwaving memberships, spitting on your own players and celebrating high membership totals is much better.
Not even mentioning celebrating the big signings of Caddy and Prestia and having the longest EVER serving vfl/afl coach to have not won a final.
But thats ok because your team won premierships way before you were probably born
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Ross has been there 3 times. It isn't his fault the players couldn't get over the line. Especially st kilda in 09-10.And in 20 years time, it will still show Ross Lyon has won the same amount of flags as Hardwick, zero.
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History doesn't care about who came in second or third place, he's coaches as many premierships right now as Hardwick, and thats 0.Ross has been there 3 times. It isn't his fault the players couldn't get over the line. Especially st kilda in 09-10.
Mate, you're the one who brought up our past 30 years in your posts earlier, don't sook when you start getting called out on it.Q: Can Hardwick coach?
Your Answer: We won a flag in the 1970s!
Not really much of a conversation is it?
Can you see why it is a bit frustrating talking to you?
Hardwick needs to earn another contract unlike his last extension, Lyon gets some breathing space owing to past performances but as you know at the end of the day only the coaches that win flags get remembered.You should know that making finals is the name of the game, do that and you give yourselves a chance of winning 1 or 2, do that and you are a chance of making the big show, do that etc etc
Comparing Hardwick to Lyon is pure deflection on his part (Rich01), Lyon has given himself and his teams every opportunity to win a flag
If you slam Lyon as a coach because he hasn't won a Grand Final, then simply saying Hardwick should get another contract if he wins a final is rather hypocritical, especially after 8 years of no return.
Then the same can be said for Hardwick to an extent, he got us to finals we were leading in two of them, was it the coach or the players that lost it at the end of the day, Im no massive fan of Hardwicks last few years but still he did take us back to the finals, something many couldn't do.Ross has been there 3 times. It isn't his fault the players couldn't get over the line. Especially st kilda in 09-10.