How do we beat Collingwood?

[ablett09]

ok, so unless there is a huge issue between now and the collingwood game, we should win against north melbourne, and you will assume both us and collingwood will go into the game unbeaten

they are currently the better team, not many will dispute that, i think that was clearly established in last years preliminary final, they took superiority over us

but alot can change in months, and to be honest, i think the standard of the competition has significantly dropped this season, i can only really see collingwood as our biggest hurdle towards the premiership

so the question is, how do we beat them tactically?

 

[PoidaCat]

Our all out play on attack with quick movement only works if we execute it with precision.

If not Collingwood absolutely love it and will tear us apart.

So we may need to just settle a bit before kicking blindly.

Also, replace Mackie with the **** on a bull.

 

[ablett09]

the really big concern i have is that against collingwood we lack too much in speed, they are able to move the ball wide down the wing too quickly for us to pressurize and stop, this was a real concern the last time we played them

 

[ablett09]

for me, ling cannot play in the midfield against collingwood, he is simply just too slow to match up against their running midfielders, we need to perminantly play him up forward, i think it would be a good match up to place him on maxwell, to really lock down on him and also make him mindful and accountable more

watching the essendon game on the weekend, essendon seemed to be able to get to the boundary and cut their movement off alot, but i cant see us being able to do this as effectively given our leg speed

 

[winty]

the really big concern i have is that against collingwood we lack too much in speed, they are able to move the ball wide down the wing too quickly for us to pressurize and stop, this was a real concern the last time we played them

In the Round 19 game against them last year, we looked at our best when we kicked long and direct from the backline. Once we got it over their forward press, we tended to score goals easily (even if one of them wasn't counted). It was when we were stuffing around with a chain of handballs across half back where we got into trouble.

Richmond showed a fortnight ago that that type of ball movement is what can bring the Pies down, and Essendon did that at times yesterday too.

It's quick and direct ball movement that will bring the Pies undone, not foot speed.

 

[Gladbaqs]

Mitchell Brown needs to kick seven goals.

 

[ablett09]

In the Round 19 game against them last year, we looked at our best when we kicked long and direct from the backline. Once we got it over their forward press, we tended to score goals easily (even if one of them wasn't counted). It was when we were stuffing around with a chain of handballs across half back where we got into trouble.

Richmond showed a fortnight ago that that type of ball movement is what can bring the Pies down, and Essendon did that at times yesterday too.

It's quick and direct ball movement that will bring the Pies undone, not foot speed.

i think your spot on with that, i remember when we played them in rnd 8 or 9? when we won by 6 goals

we seemed to get a lot of easy goals kicked over the top running into a open forward fifty, which did not happen the following two times we played them

in that first game, we looked the much better side, between then and the next time we met, things changed drastically

from 2009 preliminary to 2010 prelim, it was pretty much a 100 plus point turn around, when you consider the margins the game blew out to at their peaks

hopefully we can turn around the same like they did in 10 and take back the reigns

 

[_Me_]

mitch brown could be a wildcard

as we need a leading forward who can extend them and kick goals

 

[ablett09]

In the Round 19 game against them last year, we looked at our best when we kicked long and direct from the backline. Once we got it over their forward press, we tended to score goals easily (even if one of them wasn't counted). It was when we were stuffing around with a chain of handballs across half back where we got into trouble.

Richmond showed a fortnight ago that that type of ball movement is what can bring the Pies down, and Essendon did that at times yesterday too.

It's quick and direct ball movement that will bring the Pies undone, not foot speed.

im not disputing what ur saying, i think ur right, but the concern regarding our speed is still their for me

its not when we have the ball, its when we dont have the ball im worried, they move the ball very wide and quick, im concerned we might be a little lagging in leg speed to apply enough pressure to shut this down or cause it to be innefective at its best

if the coaching staff can come up for a way to nullify this ball movement, very similar to the way our revolutionary game style was disected and figured out, if we can come up with something between now and september, i would be quite confident we can get them

 

[ablett09]

mitch brown could be a wildcard

as we need a leading forward who can extend them and kick goals

i cant see a young inexperienced player having any impact against a top side, especially with the intensity the games played at now, the difference between playing vfl to playing against collingwood at the MCG is immense

as sad as it is, you know what your going to get from podsiadly/hawkins on a big stage, both will kick their 1 or 2 at most, where up the other end you have cloke and dawes a much bigger prescence

its a bit of a kick in the guts, when you think about hawkins and his development, you would have assumed by now, he would be a dominant force of the competition, now in his 5th season, which hasnt happened

for me the wildcard would be menzel and duncan and maybe varcoe down forward

 

[_Me_]

crazy is that you

 

[winty]

im not disputing what ur saying, i think ur right, but the concern regarding our speed is still their for me

its not when we have the ball, its when we dont have the ball im worried, they move the ball very wide and quick, im concerned we might be a little lagging in leg speed to apply enough pressure to shut this down or cause it to be innefective at its best

if the coaching staff can come up for a way to nullify this ball movement, very similar to the way our revolutionary game style was disected and figured out, if we can come up with something between now and september, i would be quite confident we can get them

I see what you're getting at. The simple fact of the matter is the team without the ball always looks slower than the team with it.

I was watching the 2009 Prelim the other day and remember hearing a commentator say the five or so times before that game, the team who had won the contested possession count has gone on and won the game. If I recall correctly, the last two times we played them, they smashed us in that area. We need to get better at that aspect of the game against them, but at the moment we're a lot fitter now than we were on prelim final night, especially the likes of Corey and Ottens.

A big key when we play Collingwood next time too will be how Hawkins plays. He was as useless as a waterproof teabag the last few times we played, so we either need him to lift when playing in the ruck, or bring in a Vardy or a West to play as the second ruck. Big ask for a young kid, but Scott has backed in other youngsters to do the job, and so far they haven't let us down.

Basically, if we win the lions share of clearances and contested possession, we should be able to dictate play a lot more than what we have the last two times we played them. In that regard, I'd have at least two of Kelly, Corey, Bartel, Selwood and Chapman in the middle at the one time. They are our clearance specialists, so should spend as much time in the guts as possible.

 

[ablett09]

I see what you're getting at. The simple fact of the matter is the team without the ball always looks slower than the team with it.

I was watching the 2009 Prelim the other day and remember hearing a commentator say the five or so times before that game, the team who had won the contested possession count has gone on and won the game. If I recall correctly, the last two times we played them, they smashed us in that area. We need to get better at that aspect of the game against them, but at the moment we're a lot fitter now than we were on prelim final night, especially the likes of Corey and Ottens.

A big key when we play Collingwood next time too will be how Hawkins plays. He was as useless as a waterproof teabag the last few times we played, so we either need him to lift when playing in the ruck, or bring in a Vardy or a West to play as the second ruck. Big ask for a young kid, but Scott has backed in other youngsters to do the job, and so far they haven't let us down.

Basically, if we win the lions share of clearances and contested possession, we should be able to dictate play a lot more than what we have the last two times we played them. In that regard, I'd have at least two of Kelly, Corey, Bartel, Selwood and Chapman in the middle at the one time. They are our clearance specialists, so should spend as much time in the guts as possible.

i agree with this, also last season i think we where using a outdated game plan, we have a better game plan this season, which has seen us become a better side, our old game plan under thompson which was to play and run the ball by hand through the midfield became a turn over haven for collingwood and some of the other quality teams at pressuring

also scott to me looks as if he demands a lot of discipline from the playing group and draws respect to him, that might be a early call based on five games and given the nature of this team regardless, but this to me, will be a advantage come finals when things lift, to me he has the same demand and disciplinary styles of a malthouse, something i dont think thompson so much was

i see us having a big advantage still in contested play vs them, if you look at the two sides, we have bigger stronger bodies still, whether or not we will hit the packs with the same momentum and speed they will is another question thought

 

[God Mode]

The biggest difference between the Round 9 game last year and the following 2 against Collingwood, was that our older team was still fresh and hadn't faced the rigors of the entire season yet, not to mention injuries to players that followed. We had an easy-going pre-season last year as opposed to previous years and as the season progressed I feel that it caught up with the players.

When we played Collingwood in round 9, they threatened to take the game away from us with their run early in the 3rd quarter. They had also tried this in prior matches. The difference was we had the stamina and energy to turn the game back around in our favour.
By the time round 19/Prelim rolled around we no longer had that. Along with an unfit Ottens, Scarlett and Corey who would all be amongst our most important players, missing 10 games or so and clearly underdone.

Mid last year I distinctly remember the media saying we were the best team in the league by far. How quickly things can change, because we went backwards after the bye and Collingwood most certainly improved from our round 9 clash. Had a fully-fit Geelong team marched into the finals, the Prelim result may have been more favourable.

 

[ablett09]

in terms of contested football, a real big key factor with collingwood, is they seem to be able to hit the packs with a lot of momentum and break through, they always seem to be moving in contested situations with extreme momentum, they do this much better then any other side does.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

We've got to win the contested ball against them which we haven't done in our most recent meetings.

Ottens has to at least break even with Jolly and on present form he can.

Most of all, we cannot stuff around with the ball the way we did in the prelim. All sideways handballs in D50 should be banned period, and the players need to understand (and I'm sure Scott has been schooling them in it) that a long kick to a contested situation out of defence is far preferable to the run and gun we want to execute that will simply get us killed.

To this end we need the rucks and tall forwards to cover a lot of ground, they don't have to take heaps of marks, but they must present and bring the ball to ground so we can have the confidence to go long out of defence rather than reverting to last year's stuff. We need to work extremely hard to outnumber them at those contests. I do agree that quick and direct ball movement will be important but I think there will b phases of the game where we need to play elements of both styles and I'm sure we will adapt accordingly.

We need to be able to lock the ball inside our forward line once we get it there, I do have concerns about Collingwood on the spread (i.e. when they get the ball and we have to run to cover a man and/or space) because I do think legspeed is a weakness for us compared to them. To that end hopefully the insanity of Ling trying to tag Pendlebury that occurred in the PF does not repeat itself. He plays as a forward only.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

It will be won around the stoppages. I am confident that the Taylor/Lonergan/Scarlett troika can do the job on Dawes/Cloke, as long as they aren't getting lace-out delivery. Boris/Dasher/J.Hunt to Didak? Didak hasn't done much this year, he'd really want a big game next week against the Dogs. Ottens vs Jolly is critical. I'm still backing Ling to do the job on Swan, maybe not for the entire game, probably splitting his time up forward. I'd like to see Corey on Pendlebury. I'd be inclined to start Varcoe up forward to try to stop Heath Shaw's run out of defence, he's been a weapon for them this year. Bartel and Selwood must fire.

 

[The Casey Cat]

A decent start would be nice. The first quarter today brought back BAD memories of our prelim last year. Just can not comprehend how we can start so poorly. Don't get me wrong fantastic to come back and level it by quarter time but geez it makes it harder than it needs to be.

Give Collingwood 4 goals in the first 7 minutes before we score and the match is over without any shadow of a doubt.

 

[G0d_]

After today, I think our form is on par with the Pies. Mentally, I think we're the better team. Collingwood is a confidence side with the speed and skill to back it up. As we saw today, we can graft our way into a game, and have the skills to win it.
I think the rope-a-dope strategy will work on the Pies. Don't try and dominate, maximise opportunities for closing them down inside fifty for as long as the Pies go at it. Show them we're going to stick with them on the scoreboard, score hard and fast against them during the slightest lull in their momentum. Bang on another three or four goals at their first sign of doubt that they're going to win.

 

[thejester]

People need to listen to Chris Scott's interview on Grandstand. Addresses a lot of these points pretty well in the first few minutes. I'm loving this blokes work.

 

[SJ]

As has been stated earlier, the obvious is we must at least break even in clearances, contested possessions and tackles.

In terms of structure, one thing we must not be is predictable, particularly out of the back line. We must go long out of defence often. And sometimes short. Spread the zone wide because I assume there is nothing Collingwood prefer more than a predictable team.

 

[topic97]

I think one of our biggest keys that needs to fire is Varcoe - especially in the midfield.
Watching him yesterday he just doesnt seem to have the confidence he did last year and that nearly hurt us big time yesterday.

One panicked handball turnover even resulted in a hawks goal.

He needs to get his confidence back like he did last year because he is a bloody dangerous player when he backs himself and his decisions, and his run and carry through the midfield, coupled with his obvious talent around goal - he could be the deciding factor if the game really gets close and down to the wire......

 

[RegHickeyStand]

I'm talking first half here:

I got absolutely hammered here last year on my comments re Ablett on the Prelim disaster.

I agreed he dominated our play, but his play was a disaster for us. He was doing his job and trying to do Selwood's job as well. As well as that I don't think I saw him pass the ball forward once effectively. He seemed obssessed with the idea of gettting as many possessions as possible, and maybe he just assumed we would win. But he literally helped Collingwood keep the ball in their forward half.

He had a greater negative impact for us in that game than any Collingwood player. He was responsible for just about all our play, and yet not once did his playmaking result in a score. Wojo, and Scarlett had much more positive impact for us in the first half. Remember Wojo's run? And remember how many times Ablett passed the ball backwards, then stuck his hand out demanding it right back?

Our secret weapon against Collingwood this year was sending Ablett to the Gold Coast.

Our midfield this year is better. So is our backline. When Pods gets going, we will be unstoppable.

 

[cynical]

Firstly we need to win in the Ruck so I'd bring in Vardy to help Ottens.

Then you have to slow the game down, so I'd have a loose man or 2 in defense and play ultra defensive for a half.

Should be applying a lot of physical pressure to their runners. Hit them hard and tackle them hard especially the younger guys.

Once they slow down they are ripe for the picking, they aren't that good when they are forced to kick long to a contest.

But if you give them time and space we will get cut up like last year.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

When Pods gets going, we will be unstoppable.

It will be a massive test for Pods. Even if he has a day out in round 7, it's not really going to tell us that much (Roos at Skilled). Collingwood on Friday night is a different proposition. I wish he'd kicked four yesterday, I'd be much more confident going in to Round 8.