Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 6

[The Cryptkeeper]

Why don't you answer my questions? You have avoided them twice. How many people attended the protests on Saturday and what % were extremists?

Andrews didn't denounce the CFMEU rioters on the day. But he came out next day spoke for 15 seconds saying "it wasn't on" and then said he was busy and couldn't take any questions. Very weak leadership.

And yes, it does seem the Police work for Dan. There ought to be separation between government and the Police force, but seemingly Police could be told by the Andrews government not to interview ministers and investigate potential wrongdoings of ministers in relation to the red shirt scandal.

Scomo is not my mate, but he has denounced violence and extremists. He also respects the rights of ordinary citizens jacked off with authoritarian governments like the Andrews government

Are you thick or are you being deliberately obtuse?

You claimed that 98% of the protestors were peaceful despite all evidence to the contrary. It is up to you to provide your numbers. Not me.

You made the claim. I simply rebutted it with a live example of what happened to myself and my wife.

(Nice strawman with the other stuff BTW, par for the course from you)

 

[sherb]

He's already denounced use of gallows and threats, as anyone would/should. But that does not mean everyone at protests should be tainted by the same brush as the extremists, does it?

I don't think so, no. Except at BLM protests (see my further post).........

I think a lot of protestors in Melbourne are not too bright, but that doesn't make them extremists.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

He's already denounced use of gallows and threats, as anyone would/should. But that does not mean everyone at protests should be tainted by the same brush as the extremists, does it?

He denounced nothing.

His wording was pretty much "those carrying gallows and making threats are naughty but I can see where they are coming from."

Like being belted around with a limp lettuce leaf.

Why are you defending it? What does that say about you?

 

[Romeoh1]

I read that article and found what Dan said to be offensive. Gaslight Dan is basically saying anyone who attended the protest is an extremist. 98% of attendees are ordinary families who are thoroughly disillusioned with his government.

‘Pandering to extremists’: Daniel Andrews blasts Scott Morrison

Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews has blasted the Prime Minister, accusing him of “pandering to extremists” following his comments on the protests in Melbourne.

www.news.com.au

So Dan is quick to kick Scomo in the head for the 2021 lockdowns blaming the slow vaccine roll-out. The 2020 Lockdown No.2 in Victoria is 100% on you Dan, even though he can't remember anything, and Victorians won't let him forget that

How can you say that 98% of the protesters are ordinary families? On what do you base that? The pictures from the rally certainly don’t indicate that. Were you there, and if so, did you take a survey?

 

[Not Important]

my side?.... youre not a very good reader, are you.

when you offer a post that is clearly right leaning adding i'm not a rightist losses its impact m8

you're entitled to express a view about the outcome of an election 12 months hence but when it's based on a hunch and personal dislike - it's hard to take it seriously.

andrews has won all the polls over the last 2 years - no matter which one - to a grater or lesser % but all clearly showing he'll win in 2022 unless something alters in a big way. and if things covid-wise continue to improve he'll have a range of major successful sporting events that will run up to the election. boxing day test> aus open > footy returns leading to an m.c.g gf >formulal 1 is back>as is moto gp. to mention some that come to mind. and against a dysfunctional opposition full of front bench clutz's and loose cannons like finn and smith.

i'll back all that against your personal dislike and a hunch

 

[Sttew]

He denounced nothing.

His wording was pretty much "those carrying gallows and making threats are naughty but I can see where they are coming from."

Like being belted around with a limp lettuce leaf.

Why are you defending it? What does that say about you?

Defending extremists? Don’t gaslight. I don’t condone the actions of fascist right wing extremists, and I don’t condone violence

 

[sherb]

If I was aware if such a level of injustice, I would hope I wouldn’t be spending all day on BigFooty taunting people. Then if I had a family snd was working I probably would have more worthwhile activities to pursue.

As with refugees, the criminal justice system is deliberately cruel - to act as a deterrent. Similarly, police when confronting rioters.

It's a perfect example of the effects of dehumanizing people.

Regardless if someone is in jail, or a refugee, or a welfare recipient, or of another faith, or whatever they still deserve to be treated with basic decency.

Once you dehumanize them, it justifies mistreatment in the minds of many.

Imagine if this tragic story made the press - to Bruce the victim was a family member, a human being, someone worthy of caring about. To many though, he would just be a piece of **** who deserved to be in jail for his crimes and equally deserved what happened to him because of those crimes.

(If people don't believe me, you've just got to look at the comments sections of FB pages like the DT, Sunrise, etc for how inhuman and uncaring many people have become).

That's how dehumanizing works. We've got to be better than that.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Defending extremists? Don’t gaslight. I don’t condone the actions of fascist right wing extremists, and I don’t condone violence

Ok, fair enough. I did not mean to insinuate that you are defending extremists.

However, it still doesn't explain why you are defending Morrison on this. Do you think his disclaimer is in any way appropriate after death threats were made against his opponents?

Morrison can "understand" where they are coming from.

That is disgusting. That is straight from the Donald Trump playbook.

 

[Sttew]

I don't think so, no. Except at BLM protests (see my further post).........

I think a lot of protestors in Melbourne are not too bright, but that doesn't make them extremists.

Ok. If the % of extremist protestors wasn’t 2% what is it? I’ve asked the question and nobody will newer it

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Ok. If the % of extremist protestors wasn’t 2% what is it? I’ve asked the question and nobody will newer it

We don't have to mate.

YOU made the claim that 98% were peaceful. All evidence says you are wrong.

 

[sherb]

Ok. If the % of extremist protestors wasn’t 2% what is it? I’ve asked the question and nobody will newer it

I'm not arguing percentages here, you may have quoted the wrong poster.

But I'm basically agreeing with you. As with my US example, I'm not going to judge peaceful protestors because of the actions of idiots/extremists/violent types.

 

[Gralin]

Why should they leave if they're there for a legitimate purpose? You'd just look at it, say, that's a bit OTT, and walk on. As most people would have. It is a beat up, come on, the media love it.

So where's the line for you if it isn't gallows and speakers calling for Andrews to hang? Or the guy with the bow and arrow? or the Nazi's?

Or the antivaxxers spitting on nurses and trying to shut down vax clinics

So then the left part of my comment (which you did also ask and state) is the political leanings of the non first nations people who support/ sympathise with those objectives. At least to my perception. It might not be correct.

yeah but reducing it to thats just lefty culture wars completely removes the whole point of the issue as oh that just something lefties cry about

 

[Sttew]

Ok, fair enough. I did not mean to insinuate that you are defending extremists.

However, it still doesn't explain why you are defending Morrison on this. Do you think his disclaimer is in any way appropriate after death threats were made against his opponents?

Morrison can "understand" where they are coming from.

That is disgusting. That is straight from the Donald Trump playbook.

I am not defending Scomo. Was Morrison talking about ordinary folk or fascist extremists?

This all came about because I said it was offensive for Andrews to exploit the situation as he has done.

After all, the reason Melbourne is such a divided and ugly city at the moment is because of Dan’s divisive, provocative and arrogant politics.

Not a week after we finally came out of lockdowns and restrictions he announces that the new Pandemic Bill has to be urgently passed. Despite the Bill being labelled as a “disaster”, and despite the Bill being widely condemned in its current form, Dan rushed it through the Lower House and negotiated with 3 cross benchers only to get it through the Upper House. Is it any wonder weary Victorians had had enough? This legislation should have been planned months ago.

The Pandemic Bill is the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back, and Dan couldn’t see that or, more likely, didn’t give a toss

 

[Brad Goodman]

CFMEU tried to blame the entire high vis rallies on fascists, conveniently ignoring the fascsists within their own ranks and also the fact that not everyone at those rallies was a fascist

the issue now is its pretty widely known that the fascists are organising these rallies

My BIL got a promotion at work because of those protests - working on a site, not far from CFMEU HQ, the foreman went to see what was going on, got caught up in it all and said/did a few naughty things which lead to CFMEU demanding he be sacked.

 

[Gralin]

Andrews commenting on protest = bad, politicking, offensive
Morrison commenting on protests = good, not politicking, just talking about ordinary folk

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I am not defending Scomo. Was Morrison talking about ordinary folk or fascist extremists?

This all came about because I said it was offensive for Andrews to exploit the situation as he has done.

After all, the reason Melbourne is such a divided and ugly city at the moment is because of Dan’s divisive, provocative and arrogant politics.

Not a week after we finally came out of lockdowns and restrictions he announces that the new Pandemic Bill has to be urgently passed. Despite the Bill being labelled as a “disaster”, and despite the Bill being widely condemned in its current form, Dan rushed it through the Lower House and negotiated with 3 cross benchers only to get it through the Upper House. Is it any wonder weary Victorians had had enough? This legislation should have been planned months ago.

The Pandemic Bill is the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back, and Dan couldn’t see that or, more likely, didn’t give a toss

It's not offensive at all. At no point have direct threats been made against politicians. Until now.

The PM should have come out in the strongest terms and denounced it. He didn't. He gave the extremists an out when he said "but I understand."

Andrews had every right to call him out on it.

And, BTW Melbourne is not as divided as you think it is. Andrews approval rating tells you that the overwhelming majority would vote him in for another term. What we have is a very vocal minority of whackjobs and bottomfeeders who refuse to be a part of society and they are getting angry because they can't have what they want. Dan refuses to pander to them and they have piffed their toys out of the cot. Like children.

 

[Sttew]

Andrews commenting on protest = bad, politicking, offensive
Morrison commenting on protests = good, not politicking, just talking about ordinary folk

Government leader in the Senate, Simon Birmingham, claimed that the “conga line of Labor premiers” attacking Morrison was “no doubt” coordinated in “a WhatsApp group with Anthony Albanese” to get Albo voted into the Lodge. We've had Dan, McGowan and The QLD premiers all come out and attack Morrison.

 

[jhong]

Where is flag boy ? Someone decides to replace the Union Jack in our flag with the USA flag and there is silence . Nothing to say flag boy ? . We are suffering the USA crap here and no one says anything ? . **** America and **** the campaigners that support this shit .

 

[Evolved1]

Oh bullshit.

People were showing up with nooses.

Peaceful protest, my arse. 98% ordinary peaceful family people, my arse. I got off a train at Parliament on Saturday afternoon and the flag wavers hanging around that part of the city are nothing short of human garbage. My wife and I got harassed for the crime of wearing a mask whilst coming out of Parliament Station.

Stop defending them.

Mate, that sounds like the crowd at a Hawthorn home game.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Government leader in the Senate, Simon Birmingham, claimed that the “conga line of Labor premiers” attacking Morrison was “no doubt” coordinated in “a WhatsApp group with Anthony Albanese” to get Albo voted into the Lodge. We've had Dan, McGowan and The QLD premiers all come out and attack Morrison.

Because the Federal Government hasn't attacked Andrews (as well as the leaders in WA and QLD) relentlessly for the past 18 months?

Josh Frydenberg for one, has devoted every waking moment to crapping on Victoria and Victorians.

So I would suggest that Birmingham has something of a glass jaw.

Once there are threats of violence against either side the denounciation should be bi-partisan (and without caveat). Yet Morrison again showed that he will stop at nothing to pander to the lunatic fringe in order to win votes.

 

[hawkman]

Mate, that sounds like the crowd at a Hawthorn home game.

If you are wearing an Essendon scarf you deserve all the abuse you get

 

[Crankyhawk]

It's a perfect example of the effects of dehumanizing people.

Regardless if someone is in jail, or a refugee, or a welfare recipient, or of another faith, or whatever they still deserve to be treated with basic decency.

Once you dehumanize them, it justifies mistreatment in the minds of many.

Imagine if this tragic story made the press - to Bruce the victim was a family member, a human being, someone worthy of caring about. To many though, he would just be a piece of **** who deserved to be in jail for his crimes and equally deserved what happened to him because of those crimes.

(If people don't believe me, you've just got to look at the comments sections of FB pages like the DT, Sunrise, etc for how inhuman and uncaring many people have become).

That's how dehumanizing works. We've got to be better than that.

It is difficult (avoiding dehumanising). We see it with the response to the unvaccinated/ those who oppose vaccine mandates, because they aren't doing their share, they are leaning on the hard work of others. And I am 100% doing this myself as well. I justify it to myself as these people are making a choice to act in this way and therefore accepting of consequences of no job, social exclusion, but its tricky.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Government leader in the Senate, Simon Birmingham, claimed that the “conga line of Labor premiers” attacking Morrison was “no doubt” coordinated in “a WhatsApp group with Anthony Albanese” to get Albo voted into the Lodge. We've had Dan, McGowan and The QLD premiers all come out and attack Morrison.

Every day, I scour the papers for the latest words of wisdom from Senator Birmingham, Australia's doppelganger for Upper Class Twit of the Year:



And every day, his words match his looks.

 

[hawkman]

Not a week after we finally came out of lockdowns and restrictions he announces that the new Pandemic Bill has to be urgently passed. Despite the Bill being labelled as a “disaster”, and despite the Bill being widely condemned in its current form, Dan rushed it through the Lower House and negotiated with 3 cross benchers only to get it through the Upper House. Is it any wonder weary Victorians had had enough? This legislation should have been planned months ago.

It has been worked on with the 3 crossbenchers since March. Like every government does, it was attempted to be rushed through at the last minute to prevent proper scrutiny.

 

[Mick F]

It's a perfect example of the effects of dehumanizing people.

Regardless if someone is in jail, or a refugee, or a welfare recipient, or of another faith, or whatever they still deserve to be treated with basic decency.

Once you dehumanize them, it justifies mistreatment in the minds of many.

Imagine if this tragic story made the press - to Bruce the victim was a family member, a human being, someone worthy of caring about. To many though, he would just be a piece of **** who deserved to be in jail for his crimes and equally deserved what happened to him because of those crimes.

(If people don't believe me, you've just got to look at the comments sections of FB pages like the DT, Sunrise, etc for how inhuman and uncaring many people have become).

That's how dehumanizing works. We've got to be better than that.

We clearly from from the school that believes in fairness and equity. Healthy communities are the ones that see people who are treated fairly, and compassionately, responding in kind.

You are teaching through your actions, and modeling the behavior of ‘fairness’. If you believe people have a natural propensity to co-operate, and work in harmony - believe that compassion is deeply rooted in human nature, expect big things - you're more likely to lead people along their path to ‘be the best they can’, and therefore experience less antisocial behaviour within your community.

This is totally at odds with posters that believe “everyone cheats, everyone is corrupt, what is the point of working hard and being honest”. It is a pitiful existence that relies on putting others down, albeit complete and utter strangers, to feel superior in that they can assert their dominance over another person or ‘tribe’. They aren’t sharing ideas, and seeking to enlighten fellow posters, to help make us more empathic. This isn’t a RWNJ versus lefty thing, it’s the decent folk standing up to the ****holes looking to blame the ‘system’ for how their lives suck.