Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 6

Status
Not open for further replies.
Feb 2, 2001
21,004
5,228
Valhalla
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
VFL Magpies
Mate, Gralin has made fair comment though.

I agree with everything that The Punter said above.

There is too much fear on the left by way of conservatism with respect to the health side of things to the point of mollycoddling, just as there is too much fear on the right with respect to economic change.

It's important to have a balanced view and I think all of the eastern seaboard states has done it with courage. I credit ol' "Bueller? Bueller?" Foley for not bowing to Sutton's leaked over the top recommended heightened restrictions.
 

adogsfan5

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 12, 2020
14,957
20,027
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Not concerned with the prolonged period of stress* medical staff are being placed under? Or are they collateral damage, provided my share portfolio increases in value? Maybe the trickle down effect will allow their families to pay off their headstones, somewhere down the track?

*The long-term ongoing stress which can increase the risk for hypertension and inflammation in the circulatory system, particularly in the coronary arteries, leading to strokes and heart attacks.

Staying/being optimistic doesn’t mean people don’t care about HCWs or that they deserve to be left in the wilderness. This is why people get annoyed on here, why would you try and turn around his post in that way?
 
You seem like the sort of person who could be locked in a room full of supermodels and still complain!
sounds pretty boring TBH
 
Feb 2, 2001
21,004
5,228
Valhalla
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
VFL Magpies
Not concerned with the prolonged period of stress* medical staff are being placed under? Or are they collateral damage, provided my share portfolio increases in value? Maybe the trickle down effect will allow their families to pay off their headstones, somewhere down the track?
Straw man much??

I mentioned earlier in this thread that it will be a tough time for them and we've presumably all got friends who are doctors, nurses, ambos etc..

There's a lot of focus on those in medicine, but there's actually plenty of stress dished out in other essential areas of life too. Medical folk don't have a mortgage on long hours, stress, under-staffing etc. We're all eating a s**t sandwich here!
 
There's regular garden variety pessimism, and there's the "things are never, ever going to get better, ever" pessimism that passes for comment and analysis around here.

I think most people aren't that optimistic, they just possess a normal human impulse to see light at the end of the tunnel.

Also, most of the pessimism and criticism never comes with any proposal or strategy for how we get back to normal, which should be the entire end objective for any strategy.

"Numbers are down" - people aren't getting tested
"We're seeing a peak" - wait until hospitalisation numbers peak
"Perhaps this is where is becomes endemic" - define words to my satisfaction

IMO Omicron changed the game insofar as the measures that certainly worked at ending the second wave, and probably had a downward effect on the Delta wave, were never, ever going to do any good against this variant. Governments across Australia (except WA, which will have do "choose" what is happening in other states eventually) have held their nerve to a large extent. The start of the school year presents new challenges, especially for those who believe socialisation and education are mutually inclusive (one can't happen with remote learning). But responses since vaccination rates hit certain thresholds have been refreshing compared to those that took place between March 2020 and October 2021.
Things that are looking good
Positive rate going down

Things that are a question
Test rate dropping massively



We don't know if the testing is down because of capacity/availability, less people with symptoms etc

If we were still processing as many tests as two weeks ago and the other numbers were dropping that would give me more confidence, but the drop in positive rate is certainly something to be happy about
 
Sep 17, 2019
21,988
34,988
AFL Club
Richmond
I agree with everything that The Punter said above.

There is too much fear on the left by way of conservatism with respect to the health side of things to the point of mollycoddling, just as there is too much fear on the right with respect to economic change.

It's important to have a balanced view and I think all of the eastern seaboard states has done it with courage. I credit ol' "Bueller? Bueller?" Foley for not bowing to Sutton's leaked over the top recommended heightened restrictions.

You forgot to mention, the right are scared of pronouns, clean air etc.
 
Mate, Gralin has made fair comment though.

There is simply not yet enough data to say whether we are past the Omicron peak. I know people who have tested positive but are not processing their RAT result online. The numbers are not reliable. That is a fact.

I am not overly bothered from a personal point of view, I am triple-vaxxed and getting about my life relatively normally. But given the parameters of how this data is recorded/reported have changed significantly in the past two weeks anybody who thinks that we have enough information to make a call one way or the other is a fool.

I hope we are past this wave and we may very well be. But the numbers that we are using to make this assessment are as flimsy as tissue paper.
To be fair, and I enjoy reading Gralin's posts mostly, he is a glass half empty poster. When the early indicators were that Omicron was nowhere near as virulent as Delta, he was dismissing that, claiming anecdotal evidence had no place in the discussion.
 
May 12, 2006
13,344
21,795
Lal Lal
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Elsternwick AFC
Also, let's not downplay the effect the transparency changes have had on the behaviour of the government this thread is intended to deal with. An elected MP who is a Minister, who can be held accountable by the electorate, is making these decisions. As Waleed Aly so eloquently put it earlier this year, governments are elected to make decisions. Those who make decisions should be held accountable. This is what is happening now. Public servants can advise governments, governments can act on that advice, seek other advice, or choose do to something different. This is how a Westminister democratic government is meant to operate.
 

Mick F

Mighty Snr
Dec 26, 2013
5,935
9,951
AFL Club
Collingwood
Straw man much??

I mentioned earlier in this thread that it will be a tough time for them and we've presumably all got friends who are doctors, nurses, ambos etc..

There's a lot of focus on those in medicine, but there's actually plenty of stress dished out in other essential areas of life too. Medical folk don't have a mortgage on long hours, stress, under-staffing etc. We're all eating a sh*t sandwich here!
At least you know where the ‘milk sops’ are coming from.

Major difference being - if you take time off for the School Sports Day, reduce your hours or take leave no one dies.
 
Feb 2, 2001
21,004
5,228
Valhalla
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
VFL Magpies
Major difference being - if you take time off for the School Sports Day, reduce your hours or take leave no one dies.

Yep and the health workers have been protected first and foremost in the minds of our governments and by the actions of the overwhelming majority of citizens through repeated lockdowns.

But ya can't lock down forever and some balls have been shown by the eastern seaboard states, both libs and labor. It's tough, but it's critically important to do so.
 
Nov 28, 2011
19,312
33,376
Melbourne
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
LIVFC
my work is currently getting smashed (like many places) with close contacts and positive cases having to isolate and not enough staff

was talk of setting up so that close contacts could still come to work if;

- they were not showing symptoms
- given RAT when arrive at work and it's negative
- made to wear a full on high level mask
- to be isolated from everyone else (ie not allowed to eat in lunch room etc)


all sounds great but not sure where they are gonna get the RATs from
 
To be fair, and I enjoy reading Gralin's posts mostly, he is a glass half empty poster. When the early indicators were that Omicron was nowhere near as virulent as Delta, he was dismissing that, claiming anecdotal evidence had no place in the discussion.
We still don't know what the long term impacts of a covid infection are

The antivaxxers look at all the potential side effects of the vaccine and think not having that, ignoring that they are all potential side effects of covid but with much higher instances

blood clots, heart and lung damage, brain inflammation

long covid is still not talked about in the media much, we don't have data on how many people are still dealing with covid symptoms long term but we do know from overseas that a % will be and while people going to hospital are more likely to end up with longer issues, anyone at all can

My issue with people saying its mild nothing to worry about is that they are just dismissing risks other than death as non existent

I'm not some hermit who has just sat at home and not socialised or gone out at all over the last two years, which is probably why I got covid two weeks ago

I've not had any symptoms for over a week as far as feeling sick but I'm still recovering as far as energy levels and ability to focus for extended periods, and I'd had my booster

I think the biggest mistake made was framing Omicron as milder, because mild in medical terms does not mean the same thing as mild to you or me

We think, oh just a runny nose and a cough for a couple of days and that's it

Bit like early on the people that were its just like the flu, most of who probably had never had the flu which is a complete bitch

I'm glad Omicron with vaccines has not been like Delta was 6 months ago because it would have been an absolute disaster but we still don't know the full impact of Omicron
 

adogsfan5

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 12, 2020
14,957
20,027
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
We still don't know what the long term impacts of a covid infection are

The antivaxxers look at all the potential side effects of the vaccine and think not having that, ignoring that they are all potential side effects of covid but with much higher instances

blood clots, heart and lung damage, brain inflammation

long covid is still not talked about in the media much, we don't have data on how many people are still dealing with covid symptoms long term but we do know from overseas that a % will be and while people going to hospital are more likely to end up with longer issues, anyone at all can

My issue with people saying its mild nothing to worry about is that they are just dismissing risks other than death as non existent

I'm not some hermit who has just sat at home and not socialised or gone out at all over the last two years, which is probably why I got covid two weeks ago

I've not had any symptoms for over a week as far as feeling sick but I'm still recovering as far as energy levels and ability to focus for extended periods, and I'd had my booster

I think the biggest mistake made was framing Omicron as milder, because mild in medical terms does not mean the same thing as mild to you or me

We think, oh just a runny nose and a cough for a couple of days and that's it

Bit like early on the people that were its just like the flu, most of who probably had never had the flu which is a complete b*tch

I'm glad Omicron with vaccines has not been like Delta was 6 months ago because it would have been an absolute disaster but we still don't know the full impact of Omicron

Agreed on all of your points but how do we achieve that? The result would be constantly needing to try drop cases, reducing transmission or aim for covid zero. How do we do that? A full Lockdown. Closing dance floors, closing hospitality or bringing density limits back in isn’t going to do much if your concern is preventing long covid. People are still going to visit others.

Preventing long covid = preventing any transmission = state lockdown.
 
Agreed on all of your points but how do we achieved that? The result would be constantly needing to try dropping cases, reducing transmission or aim for covid zero. How do we do that? A full Lockdown. Closing dance floors and bringing density limits back in isn’t going to do much if your concern is preventing long covid.
I think a lot of the problems go back to Government inaction and poor communication and playing politics
Feds and States both

There is not reason we are in 2022 still with no decent quarantine options outside of Howard Springs other than politics

Same for the continued aversion to really pumping money into Health, testing, welfare etc

Ideology at all levels of Government has continued to trump what would actually be best.

We 100% had to move from statewide lockdowns at some point but they did nothing to plan for how to live moving forward when still in a global pandemic

The answer was just go back to normal from their side and leave us to deal with the mess

Perrottet and Morrison might have led the way in the * people because businesses want customers push but Andrews jumped on board pretty ******* quick once someone else started it in November


We opened up too much too fast before Christmas with nothing in place to help deal with the completely predictable increase in cases and exposures, they then threw their hands up said, we couldn't have seen this coming, shrugged and did nothing

As soon as they got the option to downplay the risks of Omicron they took it, then when it blew up in their face it was someone not their fault.

The only thing you can do at the moment to prevent long covid is not have people catch it. Clearly we didn't have that luxury of covid zero but the oh you'll all get it anyway so whats the big deal is a bit eugenics for my liking
 

adogsfan5

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 12, 2020
14,957
20,027
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I think a lot of the problems go back to Government inaction and poor communication and playing politics
Feds and States both

There is not reason we are in 2022 still with no decent quarantine options outside of Howard Springs other than politics

Same for the continued aversion to really pumping money into Health, testing, welfare etc

Ideology at all levels of Government has continued to trump what would actually be best.

We 100% had to move from statewide lockdowns at some point but they did nothing to plan for how to live moving forward when still in a global pandemic

The answer was just go back to normal from their side and leave us to deal with the mess

Perrottet and Morrison might have led the way in the fu** people because businesses want customers push but Andrews jumped on board pretty ******* quick once someone else started it in November


We opened up too much too fast before Christmas with nothing in place to help deal with the completely predictable increase in cases and exposures, they then threw their hands up said, we couldn't have seen this coming, shrugged and did nothing

As soon as they got the option to downplay the risks of Omicron they took it, then when it blew up in their face it was someone not their fault.

The only thing you can do at the moment to prevent long covid is not have people catch it. Clearly we didn't have that luxury of covid zero but the oh you'll all get it anyway so whats the big deal is a bit eugenics for my liking

Funnily enough, when some people say to pump money into the healthcare system, I have heard and seen some replies of “what’s the point if it’s not going to be needed after the pandemic?”. Strange times.

Hindsight is a good thing. Hospitality probably could have closed for a few weeks around Christmas. But in saying that, home visits would still have been huge and I think the home compliance is dead.
 
Feb 15, 2015
31,552
70,822
South Yarra
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Mt Buller Demons
In the video I posted from that 'crackpot' Dr John Campbell he made the point that endemic doesn't mean OK.
He made the comparison to a bad UK flu season where between 200-300 people die everyday. There was also the point that the people who do die from flu will be the same type of people who die from covid so during a bad winter they would get back to that type of number.
Not saying that your views are wrong, but you might want to look into Dr John Campbell a bit further in order to glean whether he is a reliable source. Firstly he’s no epidemiologist, so why he is out there spruiking his views on a subject not within his field I don’t know. Secondly he has more than once got himself into hot water through spreading misinformation about COVID. He is however a bit of an anti-vac hero.

 
Funnily enough, when some people say to pump money into the healthcare system, I have heard and seen some replies of “what’s the point if it’s not going to be needed after the pandemic?”. Strange times.

Hindsight is a good thing. Hospitality probably could have closed for a few weeks around Christmas. But in saying that, home visits would still have been huge and I think the home compliance is dead.
Yeah it was needed before
We need to stop the cycle of governments funding their mates with the money thatd meant to cover public services

Cutting spend on health with an increasing population doesn't make sense but we've been doing it for over a decade across the board
 

adogsfan5

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 12, 2020
14,957
20,027
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Yeah it was needed before
We need to stop the cycle of governments funding their mates with the money thatd meant to cover public services

Cutting spend on health with an increasing population doesn't make sense but we've been doing it for over a decade across the board

Reckon we’ll ever learn?
 
Sep 27, 2005
9,029
7,506
Victoria
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
WILDCATS/STH.FREO/CELTICS
Reckon we’ll ever learn?


In a word no, poorly funded health has been an issue for a long time at all levels, even though it's the one thing people have complained about for a long time.

For me governments focus in order should be health & education and everything else considered after these two are in a healthy position.
 

adogsfan5

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 12, 2020
14,957
20,027
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
In a word no, poorly funded health has been an issue for a long time at all levels, even though it's the one thing people have complained about for a long time.

For me governments focus in order should be health & education and everything else considered after these two are in a healthy position.

WA in my opinion had the best possible scenario in terms of being able to prepare their health system for what’s to come. Imagine having months to prepare and still struggling. Mind boggling.

 
We opened up too much too fast before Christmas with nothing in place to help deal with the completely predictable increase in cases and exposures, they then threw their hands up said, we couldn't have seen this coming, shrugged and did nothing
Do you think Omicron was predictable?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back