Recommitted Jack Graham [Signs until 2023]

[PrinceCharles]

Sometimes a team needs these 'nothing' types.
One can argue that ECurnow is a nothing type, yet he adds a lot of value to the whole.

I'd still sooner Viney than Graham, if given the choice.

Agreed, just don't think we need any more low possession mids.

 

[HARKER]

Agreed, just don't think we need any more low possession mids.

I think we're covered with Setterfield and all being well, Stocker coming on, but I understand why this club may be looking at a grunt or two.

They're always important components in the make-up of a good team

 

[owen87]

Kennedy honestly probably not in our best 22 moving forward.

Correct me if i'm wrong but my take on Graham is he's a good inside mid, but he also has speed and so can be damaging on the outside so he's more of a 'balanced' mid? Maybe can also spend some time as a high half forward?

Big difference for me is his pace and running ability over Kennedy who is a bit slow and doesn't have the best endurance. Kennedy/Cripps/Setterfield didn't work as it was too slow with not enough running power, but I don't think we'd have this problem with Graham.

Not sure Graham is that guy really, strikes me as a guy who needs to play inside to offer much value to a team.

A list like Essendon where we lack inside players, and guys willing to do the team stuff would suit him, teams with a strong inside brigade looking for more polish (for example, Melbourne) wouldn't be a good fit.

I can see where Williams fits well for Carlton, his exposed form on the HBF along with some glimpses as a good balanced midfielder is a great match for Carlton's midfield group.

I'd have thought if Kennedy is a marginal player than Graham probably has similar issues finding a slot in the best-22 long term?

 

[Tiger71]

Sometimes a team needs these 'nothing' types.
One can argue that ECurnow is a nothing type, yet he adds a lot of value to the whole and hasn't a lot of time left in the game.

I'd still sooner Viney than Graham though, if given the choice.

Just on this, how lethal is Viney at goals, does he hurt the opposition ? Graham when played close to goal, always either kicks goals himself or makes goals happen for his team mate, also his field kicking is seriously streets a head of viney. Has a better tank too and actually runs both ways 100% of the time. I hope your club has the same view as yourself mate, that graham is a nothing player. The kicker, he is only 22 years of age, not even close to his prime years. So at this stage of performance is the worse you will see from graham.

 

[fargothegreat]

Agreed, just don't think we need any more low possession mids.

I'm not sure Graham would be a low possession mid in a different system.

If you look at the way Richmond's midfield operates, no one gets big numbers. Rarely does a Richmond mid hit 30 touches.

 

[Cactus_]

I'm not here to be deliberately combative, but these threads basically happen every year. The clubs are far more realistic than the fans and the evidence is far more weighted to agreeing with what I'm saying. Here are all the trades from last year alone, for best 22 players who switched clubs. I have excluded the 'stars' like Tim Kelly, Brad Hill etc. because I am assuming we can agree that Graham isn't in that category yeah?

Ed Langdon (best 22 easily, 22 games in 2019) - Melbourne swapped a 2nd round pick for a 4th round pick and upgraded Freo 4 spots in the 2nd round also. I'd say that's essentially the value of a late 30s pick? I think Richmond could get a deal like this at best, not a bad comparison.

Zak Jones (best 22 easily, 18 games in 2019) - Trickier, but St. Kilda gave up pick 32 and a future 3rd round, for a future 4th and got an upgrade to their 5th rounder by 20 spots. I dunno, puts the value in the back end of the 2nd round?? Far more runs on the board than JG.

Sam Frost (best 22 easily, 22 games in 2019) - Hawthorn swapped their 2nd round pick for Melbourne's 4th round, as well as upgrading their 4th round pick 8 spots and receiving a 5th round. Probably paid the value of a late 30s/early 40s pick.

Jack Steven (undeniably best 22) - I get there were some mitigating circumstances, but St. Kilda received pick 58 for their multiple time BnF winner. Probably not that relevant to JG as a player comparison, but shows how realistic clubs can be.

Hugh Greenwood (best 22 probably, 14 games in 2019, 22 in '18) - He is older than Graham, but the Crows at best will get a pick in the mid-late 40s and one in the mid-50s for him. Adelaide are a dumpster fire, but again shows what best 22ish players can go for.

Josh Bruce (undeniably best 22, key piece for St. Kilda) - Traded for pick 32 and one in the 50s. Was a proven KPP.

Alex Keath (undeniably best 22, key piece for Adelaide) - Traded for pick 45 and upgrading Adelaide's 3rd rounder to a 2nd this year. Was a proven KPP.

James Aish (best 22/fringe, 14 games in 2019) - Freo traded their second round pick and had their 4th upgraded to a 3rd rounder. Probably puts the value around pick 40ish?

Happy to revisit, but reckon if a trade for JG goes down, it will be me who is closer to the mark that most of the Richmond posters in here...

I don’t disagree with you all that much.

If a trade happens it will be because he decides he wants out (more money, or return home, or both) and if he’s un-contracted and wants out then there is no way we get fair value for him.

But he is worth plenty to us (worth more to us than we’d get for him) and I don’t think we’d be moving him if he’s not really keen to go.

I liked some of those other players but the fact was they weren’t getting a regular senior game, so we did the right thing in helping them get to new homes. I don’t think we should do that with JG because I think we should keep him (while acknowledging if he’s not happy and wants out it would be counter-productive to keep him against his will).

 

[fargothegreat]

I think unless Richmond can come to the party contract wise (unlikely) or Graham is desperate to stay for success on sh*t money (slightly more likely) these types usually get done pretty cheaply. Teams will probably offer someone like Graham 3 or 4 years on double or more than what the Tiges can.

Dan Butler would be a fairly decent precedent, pick in the 40s or 50s probably will get it done.

Butler was close to being delisted. He was bottom of a big pile of small forwards.

Graham is in our best midfield.

 

[TheKITC]

Butler was close to being delisted. He was bottom of a big pile of small forwards.

Graham is in our best midfield.

See my most recent post going over the trade period from last season, it shows what all clubs paid for best 22 players that wanted to move for various reasons...

 

[Rich01]

I can see why Blues fans want him.

He would be a significant upgrade of Matt Kennedy and a best 22 player.

Wouldn’t be surprised to see Kennedy shipped off if Graham arrived.

 

[PrinceCharles]

I'm not sure Graham would be a low possession mid in a different system.

If you look at the way Richmond's midfield operates, no one gets big numbers. Rarely does a Richmond mid hit 30 touches.

If he's low possession in your system then he'll be even worse in ours.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

Not sure the Graham/Kennedy comparison is ideal. Graham is more a true midfielder, while Kennedy is a medium fwd who we play as a midfielder.

 

[tiger_tough]

Kennedy honestly probably not in our best 22 moving forward.

Correct me if i'm wrong but my take on Graham is he's a good inside mid, but he also has speed and so can be damaging on the outside so he's more of a 'balanced' mid? Maybe can also spend some time as a high half forward?

Big difference for me is his pace and running ability over Kennedy who is a bit slow and doesn't have the best endurance. Kennedy/Cripps/Setterfield didn't work as it was too slow with not enough running power, but I don't think we'd have this problem with Graham.

You're wrong

Biggest knock on him would be his pace. He's an inside mid first and foremost and has shown he is a capable forward when given the chance, which isn't very often in our system.

 

[fargothegreat]

Dow for Graham would be an interesting trade. High ceiling, low floor player in Dow vs Graham who is very much the opposite.

Not sure I'd want to do the trade, but probably a pretty even swap.

 

[HARKER]

Not sure the Graham/Kennedy comparison is ideal. Graham is more a true midfielder, while Kennedy is a medium fwd who we play as a midfielder.

Isn't that one of the same?

If Kennedy was taken on by Richmond and Carlton drafted Graham, the difference may not be as wide as it seems to be right now.
Kennedy projected as a quality player but things didn't go his way and he just seems to have lost confidence and will.

 

[Stubbie Holder]

Dow for Graham would be an interesting trade. High ceiling, low floor player in Dow vs Graham who is very much the opposite.

Not sure I'd want to do the trade, but probably a pretty even swap.

Richmond would be losing big time with that trade.

 

[fargothegreat]

Richmond would be losing big time with that trade.

Haha yeah probably. I haven't watched much of Dow to be honest.

 

[Spacedog]

Kennedy honestly probably not in our best 22 moving forward.

Correct me if i'm wrong but my take on Graham is he's a good inside mid, but he also has speed and so can be damaging on the outside so he's more of a 'balanced' mid? Maybe can also spend some time as a high half forward?

Big difference for me is his pace and running ability over Kennedy who is a bit slow and doesn't have the best endurance. Kennedy/Cripps/Setterfield didn't work as it was too slow with not enough running power, but I don't think we'd have this problem with Graham.

He has played half forward and wing at times and hasn’t been good. He needs to be inside mid or else there’s no point playing him. Graham is also slow

 

[telsor]

I can see why Blues fans want him.

He would be a significant upgrade of Matt Kennedy and a best 22 player.

Wouldn’t be surprised to see Kennedy shipped off if Graham arrived.

Blues fans want him because, long term, he's a good chance to end up in Adelaide and they like trading with them, getting good picks, and them wasting them.

 

[Rich01]

Isn't that one of the same?

If Kennedy was taken on by Richmond and Carlton drafted Graham, the difference may not be as wide as it seems to be right now.
Kennedy projected as a quality player but things didn't go his way and he just seems to have lost confidence and will.

You’ve seen more of him than I have, but the only time I’ve seen Kennedy impact games is as a forward. And I don’t think he’s a forward.

 

[Charlie Pannam]

Dow for Graham would be an interesting trade. High ceiling, low floor player in Dow vs Graham who is very much the opposite.

Not sure I'd want to do the trade, but probably a pretty even swap.

Naaah , Graham has proven himself on the big stage, Dow’s claim to fame is being an early pick.

 

[THE_GUN]

Personally with no disrespect i wouldnt be filled with joy about a straight swap Dow/Graham

Both very young but Graham has alot more runs on the board and projects like a leader where as Dow has shown glimpses but not sure he would be infront of
Ross , RCD , Martyn ,Dow (thomson), Ralph-Smith , Turner. all of which the club has been putting up glowing reports about their development.

But i suppose our recruiters will know what they see him as becoming

 

[LordLucifer]

Not sure the Graham/Kennedy comparison is ideal. Graham is more a true midfielder, while Kennedy is a medium fwd who we play as a midfielder.

 

[The Edukator]

Personally with no disrespect i wouldnt be filled with joy about a straight swap Dow/Graham

Both very young but Graham has alot more runs on the board and projects like a leader where as Dow has shown glimpses but not sure he would be infront of
Ross , RCD , Martyn ,Dow (thomson), Ralph-Smith , Turner. all of which the club has been putting up glowing reports about their development.

But i suppose our recruiters will know what they see him as becoming

Dow is higher risk higher reward. If anyone can take the risk it's Richmond.

That said I find it very unlikely Carlton would part ways with him. They stand to gain more by keeping him than they would lose by trading him.

 

[THE_GUN]

Dow is higher risk higher reward. If anyone can take the risk it's Richmond.

That said I find it very unlikely Carlton would part ways with him. They stand to gain more by keeping him than they would lose by trading him.

They shouldnt and wouldnt trade him i think , I was just really replying to the posts that mentioned him
If Graham leaves will most likely be a trade for picks you would think

 

[Warhorse]

Graham is fringe. Richmond tend to look after their fringe players well and let them go cheap. Its part of the reason they are able to attract such good players as they look after all there players. Even the ones that leave.

Don't think Richmond will want Dow. Absolute bust