Preview JLT 2018 - Gold Coast v Geelong, 4:35pm Sunday, Townsville

[Cataholic]

my biggest issue with judging too harshly yet, is that I would suggest we have the most adaptable/fluid game plan around.. week to week we change what we do and play differently influenced by the opposition... and mind you that is probably to the detriment of the side, as we can look in no mans land as well without our own set style compared to some.

When it doesn't work it looks bad, but that is the same for every sport in the world.... you very rarely look good getting beat.

I think the over use of handball is only a criticism if it doesn't work... and what I mean by that is, when the dogs won the flag they were ridiculous by hand. (probably threw the ball a lot to be fair)

There is no right or wrong necessarily and every game plan is a team by team basis depending on what your strengths and weaknesses are, I wonder if the aim is to get the ball to outside receivers who are good by foot, we have beasts inside who can win it, but when you are doing that you normally can't kick it all that cleanly just due to the traffic and pressure around you. So we try get it to someone clean and out who can kick, as opposed to someone scrubbing a kick under pressure that is turned over immediately. The whole thing is impacted by the pressure around us and how we handle it... we could play the same way but with vastly more experience/better personnel and look a completely different more effective side as well.

if we play the guns next week, and look as panicked and don't handle it then it's going to be a long year.
but if we pull it off the other team may not be able to get a hand on us as well

Fair, balanced response Willo.......as always.

I agree with the points you’ve made, and yes, it’s very early to be going too hard.

I have no issue with handball per se, but remain very worried by what appears to be an on-going inability to execute the skill itself. This is particularly troubling when it seems to be a core component of our game plan.

Now, as you say, our composure may / should change for the better with the injection of some notable experince come R1, but I’d still dearly love to see us kick more, and depend less on handball, and hope the kicking of Ablett, Duncan, and even Kelly encourages others to do just that.

 

[Willo_]

Fair, balanced response Willo.......as always.

I agree with the points you’ve made, and yes, it’s very early to be going too hard.

I have no issue with handball per se, but remain very worried by what appears to be an on-going inability to execute the skill itself. This is particularly troubling when it seems to be a core component of our game plan.

Now, as you say, our composure may / should change for the better with the injection of some notable experince come R1, but I’d still dearly love to see us kick more, and depend less on handball, and hope the kicking of Ablett, Duncan, and even Kelly encourages others to do just that.

Don't get me wrong, the inability to hit a handball is probably my greatest frustration... there is simply no excuse for it and IMO it is the easiest skill to execute.
There was one yesterday where HS was in space, gathers the ball and has JJ or someone clear 15m up the field, he picked the right option to handball to him as it releases a quicker player into space up the field... but he overcooks the handball and puts it over JJ's head.. that crap is inexcusable and instant turnover... that is worse IMO than the hot potato handball under pressure.

JK at one point hit a target by hand, but his low intensity to get to the ball to begin with meant that he gave it back to Stewart when the pressure had started to close in, Stewart as he does went hard at it, tried to break through and ended up turning the ball over by foot - now JK sprints to the ball and makes the decision quicker, Stewart can then make the exact same play without having players close in on him and greatly increases his chance of hitting the target.

I guess what I am saying is there is much more to it than simply over use of the ball, the sum of all parts impacts the game and yesterday most of the parts were pretty average.. but it is the first week of March as well, these are no doubt all things that are being worked on.

 

[Cataholic]

Don't get me wrong, the inability to hit a handball is probably my greatest frustration... there is simply no excuse for it and IMO it is the easiest skill to execute.
There was one yesterday where HS was in space, gathers the ball and has JJ or someone clear 15m up the field, he picked the right option to handball to him as it releases a quicker player into space up the field... but he overcooks the handball and puts it over JJ's head.. that crap is inexcusable and instant turnover... that is worse IMO than the hot potato handball under pressure.

JK at one point hit a target by hand, but his low intensity to get to the ball to begin with meant that he gave it back to Stewart when the pressure had started to close in, Stewart as he does went hard at it, tried to break through and ended up turning the ball over by foot - now JK sprints to the ball and makes the decision quicker, Stewart can then make the exact same play without having players close in on him and greatly increases his chance of hitting the target.

I guess what I am saying is there is much more to it than simply over use of the ball, the sum of all parts impacts the game and yesterday most of the parts were pretty average.. but it is the first week of March as well, these are no doubt all things that are being worked on.

We share the same frustrations, and are largely on the same page.

You’re right that it’s not simply overuse, but I still struggle to understand A) why we continue to be so hapless with a basic skill, even after so many years, and B) why we’ve built a gameplan around a skill we don’t appear to have.

 

[Willo_]

We share the same frustrations, and are largely on the same page.

You’re right that it’s not simply overuse, but I still struggle to understand A) why we continue to be so hapless with a basic skill, even after so many years, and B) why we’ve built a gameplan around a skill we don’t appear to have.

maybe our footskills are worse and it's to try hide that?

 

[Cataholic]

maybe our footskills are worse and it's to try hide that?

You could be onto something there........

 

[David the Cat]

Megarolas 21 don't look so s**t hot Kitty Cat if you put up his DE.

The DE% across the board was low...Menegola had a similar DE to Mitch Duncan.

 

[Willo_]

You could be onto something there........

or it may be a lack of confidence in the foot skills, we have several great kicks, we have several mediocre to ok kicks.. I have no doubt we are trying to get the ball in the hands of the good kicks.
That and the game is forever evolving, and we are trying to adapt and work with and around that as well.. the dogs and Hawks were allowed to throw the ball for a couple of seasons and it was very effective at releasing the good ball users, and teams always imitate what others have done

 

[Willo_]

The DE% across the board was low...Menegola had a similar DE to Mitch Duncan.

DE% is also often nonsense and not always a true reflection of how well the ball is actually being used IMO

 

[David the Cat]

DE% is also often nonsense and not always a true reflection of how well the ball is actually being used IMO

agree 100%....The comparison to Mitch Duncan was to illustrate how Menegola is an easy target, and its not always warranted.

 

[Cataholic]

or it may be a lack of confidence in the foot skills, we have several great kicks, we have several mediocre to ok kicks.. I have no doubt we are trying to get the ball in the hands of the good kicks.
That and the game is forever evolving, and we are trying to adapt and work with and around that as well.. the dogs and Hawks were allowed to throw the ball for a couple of seasons and it was very effective at releasing the good ball users, and teams always imitate what others have done

There were a few horrible floaters yesterday........

Trouble with imitation is you have to be as adept, at least, to pull it off, and it never gets you ahead of the curve

 

[Spazz Cat]

It's concerning.

I'll be watching Guthrie, Kolodjashnij and Thurlow closely to see whether they've become urgent enough to want to play for the jumper.

Kolo and Guthrie will play every game (if fit ) regardless of form or urgency. You can understand why they dont give a s**t.
Thurlow was a bit strange though. Playing for his career I would of thought, but really put in some half hearted efforts.

 

[GEEitLONG]

OK i'll say it 1st... SACK THE COACH!

Beaten by GCS...
Players still stuck in a handball match plan rut.
Basic skills eroded during the preseason.
Coaches brother cant win a game at NMFC either.
Parts his hair on the wrong side.
Talks to Robbo like he CAN stand him.
Did I say beaten by the GCS?

 

[Reg Hickey]

Reg Hickey not coaching too well today though.

Hey!

I will not take responsibility for the drivel dished up yesterday tyvm. My coaching is beyond reproach.

 

[Hello Kitty]

Let us know how that goes, I’m sure he’ll be rolling his eyes internally lol

Well, firstly, I'm not sure I'd summon the nerve + secondly, to approach him on the subject, at a Season Launch, wouldn't be proper. So he's safe lol

 

[you pick one]

DE% is also often nonsense and not always a true reflection of how well the ball is actually being used IMO

So to are possessions if you keep giving it back.

agree 100%....The comparison to Mitch Duncan was to illustrate how Menegola is an easy target, and its not always warranted.

I don't remember comparing him to Duncan in fact I don't think I mentioned him at all,but yes his disposal was s**t as well but we all know his will improve.Sam on the other hand may not.

 

[Hello Kitty]

my biggest issue with judging too harshly yet, is that I would suggest we have the most adaptable/fluid game plan around.. week to week we change what we do and play differently influenced by the opposition... and mind you that is probably to the detriment of the side, as we can look in no mans land as well without our own set style compared to some.

When it doesn't work it looks bad, but that is the same for every sport in the world.... you very rarely look good getting beat.

I think the over use of handball is only a criticism if it doesn't work... and what I mean by that is, when the dogs won the flag they were ridiculous by hand. (probably threw the ball a lot to be fair)

There is no right or wrong necessarily and every game plan is a team by team basis depending on what your strengths and weaknesses are, I wonder if the aim is to get the ball to outside receivers who are good by foot, we have beasts inside who can win it, but when you are doing that you normally can't kick it all that cleanly just due to the traffic and pressure around you. So we try get it to someone clean and out who can kick, as opposed to someone scrubbing a kick under pressure that is turned over immediately. The whole thing is impacted by the pressure around us and how we handle it... we could play the same way but with vastly more experience/better personnel and look a completely different more effective side as well.

if we play the guns next week, and look as panicked and don't handle it then it's going to be a long year.
but if we pull it off the other team may not be able to get a hand on us as well

That's a great explanation Willo, a rational + calm approach.

I'm interested to hear more of your explanation (which you touched on) regarding the handballs, as in the discussion I'm having with Cataholic, who I reckon has also identified the frustrating aspects of our game.

Another poor start yesterday, down by 22 points at Q2. Knights acknowledged the poor start, therefore, if they're aware, why does it continue?

The first centre bounce, winning the clearance - Stanley tapping straight to Kelly was, I hoped, a sign of brilliance to come + I liked Kelly's kick to bring Tomahawk out, on the lead. Tomahawk missed the mark. So here we are I50 with five Cats to four Suns. Gregson, Jones + Miers pounce to grab the ball, which pops too quickly into the hands of Sexton. Four Cats -v- two Suns. Sexton shook off the Kittens, kicked with composure, towards Harbrow, although it failed to mark. Just in that first 16 seconds of play, Suns' players managed to: position themselves to advantage; create space + avoid defensive pressure from Geelong; kicked the ball, not one handball by the Suns; after Kelly's kick, it was all Suns' possession.

When Suns were kicking to their players, often our guys were too loose, no where near their oppo player.

The sloppiness of basic skills, even though it's only JLT, is annoying. In the first minute of Q1 yesterday, Tuohy kicked from our backline into space, Cuthrie ambled over + was tackled. I reckon Tuohy placed the ball, expecting Cuthrie to sprint across + mark. Cuthrie's lack of pace allowed a huge tackle by Lemmens.

Here in is a great example of contested pressure - one of the Kittens, (Cunico ?) manages to kick the ball, instead of handballing it, to Miers, who goals -
View attachment 466187
BTW, an aside: was it Derr-Wayne who advised that Lonergan wasn't playing today, but would be back in the next three weeks. Ummm Derr-Wayne, #13 played + his name is Fogarty. Is it unreasonable to expect a former Geelong player to know that Lonergan retired last year?

Next, Gregson's shank:
Is the position of Gregson's body indicating that his kick will go too far to the right? Result, OOB.
View attachment 466188

After Menzel's brilliant left foot goal, there's a passage of play which typifies the handballing issue. This inept handballing isn't specific to Menzel, many players do it - handball wildly when under pressure. In Menzel's defence, at least the ball was handballed up + over, but a turnover was still the result.

Menzel gets the ball away before being tackled, yet the wild kick missed the target of Thurlow. Four Cats players -v- three Suns players, only Murda chases the loose ball, attempts to tackle, but too late, Lynch kicks to Macpherson to Sexton, who goals. This is a situation where there was plenty of space + while Menzel was superb to keep the ball to his advantage, if he'd taken a second to kick to Thurlow, who was alone, the result could be different. Anyway, it's a bit, could have, should have, would have.

 

[Strange Cat]

I’m just putting it down to playing a lot of new kids and the lack of effort from the senior players at this stage. If they play like this in round 1 that’s when I’ll be concerned.

 

[Isii]

Add to what you are saying, this old handball clearance plan is now old hat and high risk,every coach knows what we do,every good or hard working hard checking side will force turnovers and turnovers are death in today's footy.We need to mix things up and have the opposition guessing at least.

Variety is definitely the spice of "upo".

 

[Hello Kitty]

Don't get me wrong, the inability to hit a handball is probably my greatest frustration... there is simply no excuse for it and IMO it is the easiest skill to execute.
There was one yesterday where HS was in space, gathers the ball and has JJ or someone clear 15m up the field, he picked the right option to handball to him as it releases a quicker player into space up the field... but he overcooks the handball and puts it over JJ's head.. that crap is inexcusable and instant turnover... that is worse IMO than the hot potato handball under pressure.

JK at one point hit a target by hand, but his low intensity to get to the ball to begin with meant that he gave it back to Stewart when the pressure had started to close in, Stewart as he does went hard at it, tried to break through and ended up turning the ball over by foot - now JK sprints to the ball and makes the decision quicker, Stewart can then make the exact same play without having players close in on him and greatly increases his chance of hitting the target.

I guess what I am saying is there is much more to it than simply over use of the ball, the sum of all parts impacts the game and yesterday most of the parts were pretty average.. but it is the first week of March as well, these are no doubt all things that are being worked on.

They're good examples Willo. Completely agree with you that the over-cooked handball, which goes over a player's head is inexcusable!

There was the good play - when Stewart, was grabbed by Lemmens, (who cramped or did a hammy, dropped the ball) then regathered it, hitting his target. Stewart's obvious awareness allowed him to remain composed + dispose the ball successfully. Think this is the play you mentioned.

The thing with the hot potato handball under pressure (chuffed you used my hot potato) is that there are other options, to try to go up + over the players surrounding you. While a turnover is still a possibility, there is still the chance of getting the ball out of congestion to another team mate, who can move the ball forward.

As you say, "there is much more to it than simply over use of the ball", sure some parts were poor, but the Stewart example of remaining composed, as pressure increased, shows there is the ability not resort to the short handball every time.

We have to consider the six debuting Kittens, who showed terrific signs; the humidity; + it was the first time players had played with that group. With the addition of our gun Fab Five, well the other three, it will strengthen our game. I'm thrilled with the Kittens, it's fantastic experience for them + Miers + Ratugolea were super! So proud of them kicking their first goals in the Hoops.

 

[Willo_]

So to are possessions if you keep giving it back.

I don't remember comparing him to Duncan in fact I don't think I mentioned him at all,but yes his disposal was s**t as well but we all know his will improve.Sam on the other hand may not.

I value effective disposals

I just don't agree with what Champion Data deem an effective disposal

 

[Hello Kitty]

I’m just putting it down to playing a lot of new kids and the lack of effort from the senior players at this stage. If they play like this in round 1 that’s when I’ll be concerned.

A good attitude to have SC

 

[AM]

The man for GC? Yes, he is that. Who would argue that with you?

We'll see whether that is the case. One swallow does not a summer make.

As I've put, my post was facetious. Take very little notice of praccies other than the final one.

 

[you pick one]

I value effective disposals

I just don't agree with what Champion Data deem an effective disposal

Is their criteria on the public record?

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

Is their criteria on the public record?

If you kick the ball 40+m to a 50/50 contest, it's considered effective. That's where alot of the conjecture would come from.

 

[Landgraft]

I’m just putting it down to playing a lot of new kids and the lack of effort from the senior players at this stage. If they play like this in round 1 that’s when I’ll be concerned.

I agree with you overall, but bitterly disappointed in lacklustre performances from some who should have known better. Even if it shouldn't matter it still feels like a letdown that they weren't working harder for it.

Is their criteria on the public record?

We got the full definitions of their stats only recently, I'll try and find them.