NBL League Owner wants AFL club investment

[Upgrayedd]

Interesting Upgray, maybe you want players paid too much, more than a successful business would pay - the Wildcats & Bendat have the score on the board. Pls don't take it as a criticism of you personally, its an observation & you are the basketball fan, I follow it but only incidentally.
I've followed Mr Bendat from the late 60s when he was involved with Subi footballer Kevin Merifield who at the time was in partnership with Kerry Stokes (now of Channel 7/Westrac) fame.

Yeah didn't channel 7 own the wildcats for a period of time as well? In terms of Australian players, Wildcats are known to absolutely lowball people, not the only club. But it does work for them

TL / DR, The most sucessful NBL club in a huge market, with fantastic facilities made 1.5m in a championship year with shrewd management, I dont think an expansion is in order just yet

Crazy to think back in the early/Mid 90's the wildcats consistently out-rated the eagles in tv ratings as well

 

[thegreig]

2 x NBL clubs in Melbourne have a history demonstrating its not sustainable in any of the cities - footy should have nothing to do with it IMHO.

Two teams in Melbourne could easily work especially if the second team is based in the South East, Magic and Titans had great support all the problems came from the muppets running the club(s) and there are still a lot of bitter fans out here. Melbourne United rebranding has helped get some old fans back but others still do and always will see them as the Tigers aka: archenemy

 

[Kwality]

Two teams in Melbourne could easily work especially if the second team is based in the South East, Magic and Titans had great support all the problems came from the muppets running the club(s) and there are still a lot of bitter fans out here. Melbourne United rebranding has helped get some old fans back but others still do and always will see them as the Tigers aka: archenemy

There have been regular attempts at a 2nd team in Melbourne, ALL have failed. As for the supposed muppets, most were funding unsustainable ($s) franchises out of their own pocket. Hobby owners is how Kestelman described them (http://www.espn.com.au/espn/story/_/id/18689040/q-australian-nbl-executive-director-larry-kestelman )

Kestelman took out the Tigers because he saw it as part of the problem & not a part of the solution.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Two teams in Melbourne could easily work especially if the second team is based in the South East, Magic and Titans had great support all the problems came from the muppets running the club(s) and there are still a lot of bitter fans out here. Melbourne United rebranding has helped get some old fans back but others still do and always will see them as the Tigers aka: archenemy

Every melbourne team apart from the tigers has gone bankrupt. Muppets or not turns out playing in a 2000 seat stadium and being unable to fill that at points doesnt scream great support

 

[Heardy_101]

South Dragons weren't bankrupt. They left the League debt free.

Problem was they didn't want to fork out $1m just to rejoin again.

 

[madmug]

South Dragons weren't bankrupt. They left the League debt free.

Problem was they didn't want to fork out $1m just to rejoin again.

Thats what happened with original Hobart Devils team. They saw the financial writing on the wall trying to compete with salary cap cheats. The owners pulled up stumps before they went broke or so uncompetitive it wouldn't be worth the effort. Teams like Geelong went the same way.

Once the league settled down & Hobart reapplied, the NDL wanted a $Million. Again making the whole thing an economic stupidity.

The current league at least seem to understand all that now. I think.

 

[Kwality]

South Dragons weren't bankrupt. They left the League debt free.

Problem was they didn't want to fork out $1m just to rejoin again.

The hobby owner was no longer prepared to fund it clearly. Net effect the same.

Thats what happened with original Hobart Devils team. They saw the financial writing on the wall trying to compete with salary cap cheats. The owners pulled up stumps before they went broke or so uncompetitive it wouldn't be worth the effort. Teams like Geelong went the same way.

Once the league settled down & Hobart reapplied, the NDL wanted a $Million. Again making the whole thing an economic stupidity.

The current league at least seem to understand all that now. I think.

Net effect another team gone.

Happy to concede neither went broke (without checking).

 

[Heardy_101]

Trivia: one of the local SA Liberal MPs, Dan van Holst Pellekaan is a former Devils player

 

[Upgrayedd]

South Dragons weren't bankrupt. They left the League debt free.

Problem was they didn't want to fork out $1m just to rejoin again.

We're circling the drain and Cowan/Pratt dumped so much money to pay back the creditors, huge sticking point was the NBL asked the Dragons to have at least 1 million dollars in the bank as well as the licence. Which is 1m over 3 years and has been since 2005.

Which did suck because the 08/09 dragons was a great team with quite a few young talent in Gibson/Ingles

 

[Kwality]

We're circling the drain and Cowan/Pratt dumped so much money to pay back the creditors, huge sticking point was the NBL asked the Dragons to have at least 1 million dollars in the bank as well as the licence. Which is 1m over 3 years and has been since 2005.

Which did suck because the 08/09 dragons was a great team with quite a few young talent in Gibson/Ingles

Pratt no, Raffy Geminder is married to one of Dicks daughter.

 

[jatz14]

Only pays imports. A few SBL SEABL players i know who have had contract negotiations have been ridiculously lowballed. With a "well you want to play for us or not? " not a dig. Clearly works also was one of the issues which was a sticking point for the nbl/nba pre season matches as well.

Didn't he make the Lynx the first fully professional women's team? At least the starting 5. Pretty sure his tightness only extends to bench players the club does not actually need. Local starters are getting some coin.

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[Upgrayedd]

Didn't he make the Lynx the first fully professional women's team? At least the starting 5. Pretty sure his tightness only extends to bench players the club does not actually need. Local starters are getting some coin.

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Yeah he purchased them and brought them to alignment eith the wildcats. Which right now looks like a sucessful move because they have been pretty averagr for a long time. And had some sucess recently in making finals

 

[BringBackTorps]

No doubt in mymind that our clubs enthusiasm for AFLW and Netball in to inbed ourselves in our district and fits the target audience. Netball is a huge particpant sport, with juniors and their families our target for supporters.
Fair to say it's too early to judge results, doubt we'll retreat anytime soon though.
NBL not so much and it's a competing sport in a way the former aren't

As GWS & Coll. have their own professional netball teams, & as GR netball is directly affiliated (or at least unofficially connected) to many GR AF Clubs/Leagues in Vic. WA, SA, & Tas., would there be significant resistance/conflict of interest if some AFL Clubs introduced new NBL TEAMS? Women's netball & women's basketball are DIRECT competitors!

At GR jnr. AF level with Clubs that also have direct links to jnr. girls' netball, there is sometimes "friction" with the jnr. netball players' parents/ coaches at the jnr AF Club trying to "poach" these girls over to also play female AF. I assume many of these parents etc. would not be enamoured with the AFL promoting basketball.

To ensure harmony & the future strong growth of female AF, the AFL must ensure it remains "sweet"(at least, as much as possible) with GR Netball & Super Netball. There are c.700,000+ regd. netballers: let's invite them to the dance, no two-timing!
The AFL should keep away from direct links to basketball.

Is it correct, as poster Upgrayedd has stated above, that:-
.Perth Wildcats now attract sell-out crowds of c.14,000 to nearly every game? For how many years? If so, very impressive for basketball.
.And is it also correct that Perth Wildcats TV ratings were usually higher than WC in the 90's (& were the Wildcats games during Primetime, whilst WC played in afternoons -"dead-ratings" time)?

 

[Admiral Byng]

Is it correct, as poster Upgrayedd has stated above, that:-
.Perth Wildcats now attract sell-out crowds of c.14,000 to nearly every game? For how many years? If so, very impressive for basketball.
.And is it also correct that Perth Wildcats TV ratings were usually higher than WC in the 90's (& were the Wildcats games during Primetime, whilst WC played in afternoons -"dead-ratings" time)?

A year or two ago the Wildcats played on the same Sunday as the Aussies were playing a ODI at the WACA. The Wildcats drew the larger crowd.

 

[jatz14]

As GWS & Coll. have their own professional netball teams, & as GR netball is directly affiliated (or at least unofficially connected) to many GR AF Clubs/Leagues in Vic. WA, SA, & Tas., would there be significant resistance/conflict of interest if some AFL Clubs introduced new NBL TEAMS? Women's netball & women's basketball are DIRECT competitors!

At GR jnr. AF level with Clubs that also have direct links to jnr. girls' netball, there is sometimes "friction" with the jnr. netball players' parents/ coaches at the jnr AF Club trying to "poach" these girls over to also play female AF. I assume many of these parents etc. would not be enamoured with the AFL promoting basketball.

To ensure harmony & the future strong growth of female AF, the AFL must ensure it remains "sweet"(at least, as much as possible) with GR Netball & Super Netball. There are c.700,000+ regd. netballers: let's invite them to the dance, no two-timing!
The AFL should keep away from direct links to basketball.

Is it correct, as poster Upgrayedd has stated above, that:-
.Perth Wildcats now attract sell-out crowds of c.14,000 to nearly every game? For how many years? If so, very impressive for basketball.
.And is it also correct that Perth Wildcats TV ratings were usually higher than WC in the 90's (& were the Wildcats games during Primetime, whilst WC played in afternoons -"dead-ratings" time)?

For some to see AF clubs as 'poaching' girls from netball, nothing other than providing an option of sport need occur. To pander to these people by not poaching, or in other words, not allowing an option, is a big mistake.

To suggest AF restrict access to football out of some deference to netball is bizarre.

The most successful women's club team, Darebin, play in a club that provides multiple option of sport for women. Despite a high profile, successful and expanding footy program, they manage to provide teams in multiple other sports as well, and if someone decides to switch from soccer to footy, it's their right to choose the sport they want to play.

I also do not see a connection between community football/netball clubs, and AFL teams with men's teams in the NBL. Concern would be being massively oversensitive. Do you think a girl switches from netball to basketball because an AFL team gets an NBL team?

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[Rob]

.And is it also correct that Perth Wildcats TV ratings were usually higher than WC in the 90's (& were the Wildcats games during Primetime, whilst WC played in afternoons -"dead-ratings" time)?

I don't really know, and I doubt anyone around here does. But I do recall that when there was a clash, the Eagles got priority on Channel 7. I remember they used to run it as a double header with the footy at 6:30 or so and the basketball afterwards.

 

[BringBackTorps]

For some to see AF clubs as 'poaching' girls from netball, nothing other than providing an option of sport need occur. To pander to these people by not poaching, or in other words, not allowing an option, is a big mistake.

To suggest AF restrict access to football out of some deference to netball is bizarre. I NEVER SUGGESTED THIS.

The most successful women's club team, Darebin, play in a club that provides multiple option of sport for women. Despite a high profile, successful and expanding footy program, they manage to provide teams in multiple other sports as well, and if someone decides to switch from soccer to footy, it's their right to choose the sport they want to play.

I also do not see a connection between community football/netball clubs, and AFL teams with men's teams in the NBL. Concern would be being massively oversensitive. Do you think a girl switches from netball to basketball because an AFL team gets an NBL team?

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I prefer that for ALL jnr. girls wishing to play jnr female AF, every opportunity should be provided for them to play.

There are sometimes problems when the parents of female netballers strongly prefer (their parental prerogative) that their daughter NOT play AF -nor be encouraged to do so. This can be a sensitive issue for AF Clubs with netball affiliations. I have not suggested an AF Club turn any netball females away, nor be inactive re female AF recruitment.
AF should retain & "cultivate" its strong, traditional connection to netball -promoting NBL basketball would be a mistake. And why antagonise Super Netball?

AF is also in competition with basketball for male & female players.
Ben Simmons, Melb. born & NBA no. 1 Draft Pick (ditto A. Bogut & K. Irving) was a B & F AF player in the Yarra JFL (Team mate C. Petracca called him an AF "freak"). Magic Johnson has said Simmons is the best all-rounder since LeBron James. The AFL has, probably, paid a significant "opportunity cost" in losing him.
By creating/promoting/"glamourising" NBL teams, the AFL could lose others.

www.smh.com.au/sport/basketball/ben-simmons-could-have-been-an-afl-superstar-says-friend-christian-petracca20160618-gpmaut.html

 

[The_Wookie]

NBL owner Larry Kestelman believes Victoria could support three NBL sides and he plans to have at least one more in the league within two years.

Melbourne United has sold out several games at Hisense Arena this season but Kestelman wants them to have a rival and one strong enough to compete.

This has seen the league have early discussions with some AFL clubs about their interest in entering NBL sides, a notion that has been discussed before and now has more hope of success as football clubs are fielding AFLW, Super Netball and VFLW sides.

The league has not ruled out entering a new Melbourne team for next season but won't be rushed, some reports last week said Collingwood and Fremantle had interest in an NBL side while Richmond investigated entering a south-eastern side in 2015.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Kestelman has looked at big Euro soccer clubs who have many other sporting clubs associated with the football club. But he forgets most of those sides play in a 1 or 2 team city and most of those 2 city teams, the population of the metro city area is well over 3 million so if you do get 2 teams in their national soccer league there is a big enough fan base for both teams to have a basketball team. There isn't the population and money for teams to be financially independent of each other in the Oz sports market.

The MCC has many different sporting teams and with over 100,000 members it hasn't gone past the amateur level for basically all of those teams. I assume players of the cricket team get paid a small amount but its not a living wage stuff.

 

[Heardy_101]

Hopefully he let's the Tigers come back.... Or the Magic

 

[thegreig]

Hopefully he let's the Tigers come back.... Or the Magic

The Tigers will only work if united change back and another new team enters the comp, it can't be a new team named tigers because Melbourne United have all their history and records.
Magic on the other hand could definitely work it would be great to have them back in the NBL

 

[The_Reaper]

Kestelman has looked at big Euro soccer clubs who have many other sporting clubs associated with the football club. But he forgets most of those sides play in a 1 or 2 team city and most of those 2 city teams, the population of the metro city area is well over 3 million so if you do get 2 teams in their national soccer league there is a big enough fan base for both teams to have a basketball team. There isn't the population and money for teams to be financially independent of each other in the Oz sports market.

The MCC has many different sporting teams and with over 100,000 members it hasn't gone past the amateur level for basically all of those teams. I assume players of the cricket team get paid a small amount but its not a living wage stuff.

Well thats also because high level cricket in Australia is at provincial level.

 

[Rob]

The Tigers will only work if united change back and another new team enters the comp, it can't be a new team named tigers because Melbourne United have all their history and records.
Magic on the other hand could definitely work it would be great to have them back in the NBL

Eastside Melbourne Spectres FTW!

What was with the side thing anyway? There was a Westside Melbourne as well IIRC.

 

[Prince Imperial]

Eastside Melbourne Spectres FTW!

What was with the side thing anyway? There was a Westside Melbourne as well IIRC.

 

[Heardy_101]

Eastside Melbourne Spectres FTW!

What was with the side thing anyway? There was a Westside Melbourne as well IIRC.

South East Melbourne Magic were made up of the Nunawading (spelling??) / Eastside Melbourne Spectres and the Southern Melbourne / Westside Saints - who originally were called St Kilda!