Player Watch Nick Daicos - Can he be the GOAT?

[PieLebo87]

Get it right it’s 3 Times Premiership captain, Brownlow Medalist, AFLCA Player of the year, 3 time club bnf, AFLPA Best captain, all Australian, state of origin captain and best hair in the comp for his entire career Trent Cotchin

It’s a resume that just rolls off the tongue and one young Nick should be looking to emulate

Some players just luck out I guess.

 

[BF Tiger]

All good - we'll just settle for 'Best performed player in the competition in 2023 after finals are taken into consideration'.

Do that two more times and he'll have matched Dusty.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Do that two more times and he'll have matched Dusty.

& since Dusty is definitely not the goat Nick will still need to do better in order to be in goat contention

 

[Fadge]

Bontempelli had the better year and lead Nicki in every award in the end. Beat him out in nearly every stat that matters too.

Just happened to be that Nicki boys team was far better than Bonts last season.

Bont:

Was 4 votes behind in the Brownlow when Daicos got injured, and beat him by a vote after polling 5 votes in the final two rounds against West Coast and a Geelong team that had put the cue in the rack when not able to make finals.

Coaches award - same deal, was 12 votes behind when Daicos got injured, to beat him by 3 votes.

Reasonable to assume many players would have flipped Daicos and Bont for the MVP due to Daicos' incomplete season and Bont finishing strong. But Daicos still finished second in the MVP.

Then Daicos played one very good and one great finals game, resulting in a premiership.

So Bont? Yeah, nah...

 

[Arr0w]

Jack Graham

34

Jack Graham

Age

26

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.8

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

6.3

5star

G

0.4

3star

D

11.8

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

6.5

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

4.2

5star

G

0.0

1star

D

14.0

4star

K

6.0

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

7.0

5star

G

1.0

4star

won 2 flags, one at 19

Better than jelly Nicki?

 

[Muddiemoose]

Haha, now the comparisons are against players that haven't won a flag

Wondering how many have won 2 or more, are they better than Nicki

M Pickett 1 game, 1flag, 3rd in norm smith voting all the week after winning the afl flag!

Arguably the greatest afl debut season of all time, if not definitely the best afl debut of all time

 

[Arr0w]

Fyfe won a brownlow playing less games and polled more votes than Nicki

 

[Fadge]

Do that two more times and he'll have matched Dusty.

Martin was the best performed player once across the course of a season - 2017.

2019 and 2020 - he was nowhere near it after home and away, and his strong finals series catapulted him into 2nd in 2020 (behind Neale) and the top half dozen in 2019 (which is being generous given he was 6th in his own club's best and fairest and didn't make All-Australian).

 

[Sector 7G]

All good - we'll just settle for 'Best performed player in the competition in 2023 after finals are taken into consideration'.

According to your good self ND hasn’t polled a Brownlow vote in the last 9 regular season games.
I understand he missed 3 games and was the equal 4th best player in the prelim and 3rd best player in the gf(according to the GA medal voting).
1 vote in 8 games raises the question has he been worked out. Over these 8 games he has had 2 of his worst 5

 

[Muddiemoose]

Martin was the best performed player once across the course of a season - 2017.

2019 and 2020 - he was nowhere near it after home and away, and his strong finals series catapulted him into 2nd in 2020 (behind Neale) and the top half dozen in 2019 (which is being generous given he was 6th in his own club's best and fairest and didn't make All-Australian).

So how exactly is Daicos the best performed during the season incl finals when he was nowhere near the Gary Ayres medal?
He didn’t even poll top 5

 

[Arr0w]

As 19 year olds, Sheezel averaging 8 more touches a game

Facts, not #whataboutisms

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Bont:

Was 4 votes behind in the Brownlow when Daicos got injured, and beat him by a vote after polling 5 votes in the final two rounds against West Coast and a Geelong team that had put the cue in the rack when not able to make finals.

Coaches award - same deal, was 12 votes behind when Daicos got injured, to beat him by 3 votes.

Reasonable to assume many players would have flipped Daicos and Bont for the MVP due to Daicos' incomplete season and Bont finishing strong. But Daicos still finished second in the MVP.

Then Daicos played one very good and one great finals game, resulting in a premiership.

So Bont? Yeah, nah...

So he got injured and Bont ended up having a better year, thanks for confirming.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

That he's not willing to put himself in harms way to help the team when he needs to

 

[Muddiemoose]

I’m assuming Fadge is taking the highest polled Brownlow player and highest polled finals player (Gary Ayres) and using that as the criteria for his award

But with apply that to 2019 Dustin Martin meets that same criteria!

I did the same for 2020 and it’s Dusty again!

So unless you are using a different metric for your judgement Fadge surely you must concede that Dusty has been the best player across home and away including finals no less than 3 times!!

 

[Fadge]

I’m assuming Fadge is taking the highest polled Brownlow player and highest polled finals player (Gary Ayres) and using that as the criteria for his award

No, I'm not.

I've said many times award votes are a guide - some players attract them more than others.

Martin wouldn't have been in the top 20 players across the home and away season in 2019, as indicated by his omission from the AA team.

A great finals series, and he leapfrog a heap of players, but there was far to much of a gap between him and the top few - Cripps, Kelly, Fyfe and Neale.

 

[BF Tiger]

Martin was the best performed player once across the course of a season - 2017.

2019 and 2020 - he was nowhere near it after home and away, and his strong finals series catapulted him into 2nd in 2020 (behind Neale) and the top half dozen in 2019 (which is being generous given he was 6th in his own club's best and fairest and didn't make All-Australian).

Finals weighting gets him over the line in both the '19 and '20 seasons. Gary Ayres Medals in both seasons are testament to that. Sorry salty caramel Fadge.

Neale racking up cheap early season dominance but going to water when the heat was on diminishes his 2020.

Similar in 2019. No need to be AA for H&A, when Dusty was always playing a long game looking to dominate the end of season when the heat is on. Which he did. Unequivocally.

 

[Aphrodite]

Jason Castagna 3 time premiership small forward, we became competitive when he became best 22 and his retirement last year signalled the official end of our dominance

Billy ‘2 touches’ Frampton

 

[Muddiemoose]

No, I'm not.

I've said many times award votes are a guide - some players attract them more than others.

Martin wouldn't have been in the top 20 players across the home and away season in 2019, as indicated by his omission from the AA team.

A great finals series, and he leapfrog a heap of players, but there was far too much of a gap between him and the top few - Cripps, Kelly, Fyfe and Neale.

Geeze this award of yours has some very particular criteria
Sure you aren’t including and excluding certain criteria to rule other players out?

If that’s the case it would be pretty disingenuous

So could I kindly request all criteria that goes into your award and the weight that a win in each criteria gets in terms of determining the winner?

 

[BF Tiger]

No, I'm not.

I've said many times award votes are a guide - some players attract them more than others.

Martin wouldn't have been in the top 20 players across the home and away season in 2019, as indicated by his omission from the AA team.

A great finals series, and he leapfrog a heap of players, but there was far to much of a gap between him and the top few - Cripps, Kelly, Fyfe and Neale.

So Nicki leading the Brownlow until injured is only a guide. Excellent.

 

[Fadge]

Finals weighting gets him over the line in both the '19 and '20 seasons. Gary Ayres Medals in both seasons are testament to that. Sorry salty caramel Fadge.

Neale racking up cheap early season dominance but going to water when the heat was on diminishes his 2020.

Similar in 2019. No need to be AA for H&A, when Dusty was always playing a long game looking to dominate the end of season when the heat is on. Which he did. Unequivocally.

Yep, Martin the best finals player in both seasons. Agree.

But you need to put in a full season to be judged the best player across a full season. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp.

 

[Fadge]

So could I kindly request all criteria that goes into your award and the weight that a win in each criteria gets in terms of determining the winner?

I explained why Daicos was rated higher than Bont, as an example.

I've said a thousand times, players don't get a tick for winning an award and a cross for not winning am award.

If you use that criteria, you'd have Bont, Butters and Neale the equal best players in 2023, with all three infinitely better than every other player in the competition.

Unless you wanted to throw in Curnow, Walsh and Hill, to have 6 equal best, who are all infinitely better than the other 800 odd players in the comp...

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

No, I'm not.

I've said many times award votes are a guide - some players attract them more than others.

Martin wouldn't have been in the top 20 players across the home and away season in 2019, as indicated by his omission from the AA team.

A great finals series, and he leapfrog a heap of players, but there was far to much of a gap between him and the top few - Cripps, Kelly, Fyfe and Neale.

So with votes merely being a guide... How could you possibly argue Bontempelli wasn't better in 2023 then? On just about every key statistic he was better than Daicos, despite being in a lesser team.

 

[Muddiemoose]

I explained why Daicos was rated higher than Bont, as an example.

I've said a thousand times, players don't get a tick for winning an award and a cross for not winning am award.

If you use that criteria, you'd have Bont, Butters and Neale the equal best players in 2023, with all three infinitely better than every other player in the competition.

Unless you wanted to throw in Curnow, Walsh and Hill, to have 6 equal best, who are all infinitely better than the other 800 odd players in the comp...

So you alone decide who is the winner?

We have no real measurement or criteria?

 

[BF Tiger]

Yep, Martin the best finals player in both seasons. Agree.

But you need to put in a full season to be judged the best player across a full season. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp.

Applying the bolded to last season and we don't come out with Nicki on top.

Wasn't the best across H&A. Wasn't the best across finals. Wasn't the best across the two combined.

Poor Nicki, failing to be the best even when the criteria is set by Fadge with his Fadgorithm.

 

[Muddiemoose]

I’m still trying to work out could possibly be the winner of the Fadge award in 2019

No players meet all 3 criteria
But Dusty is the only one to lead in two but he isn’t the winner