News Ollie Greaves possible NGA 2025 - AFL secret formula says no

[extractasam]

It won't be literally nothing, it may well cost us Carlton's first pick in the end.

That would be Essendon levels bad if we failed to trade out and get some currency for it though.

 

[bigbuddyboy]

Too much to ask for Carlton to have an almighty season blowup so their pick lands before a bid for this kid

 

[tommyk72]

Its an interesting question about how you define your genetic heritage. In America for instance they have rules around blood requirements to be part of a specific Native American tribe.

Most of the tribes (Navajo, etc) require either a 25 percent (one grandparent) or 12.5 percent (one great grandparent) to be considered part of their tribe.

Some tribes even require as high as 50 percent (one parent).

The blood percentage is not the only requirement though, they also need to be part of the community / live on the land with the tribe, etc (similar to your 3rd point above).

Also the US Federal government requires that you meet a certain minimum genetic requirement before granting specific Native American federal benefits (25 percent).

There's also citizenship more broadly which changes from country to country. Some citizenship is bestowed by blood, and others by birthplace. For example, my kids can get US/Canadian/Australian citizenship after being born in the US to Canadian/Australian parents. Can get really complex!

 

[extractasam]

I thought you had to be apart of the first academy intake to qualify for the second?

Could we get denied on those grounds possibly? I thought that was why we couldn’t take Tauru

 

[Simon Crawshay]

I don't see the AFL blocking his eligibility as being the issue but rather their tendency to change this system on a whim mid year. We could easily end up only being able to bid from pick 20 if they choose to go down that path.

This will be the path they take.

 

[kazzooka]

Is it any of the three points or all three?

I’d assume you couldn’t just identify as indigenous without having any indigenous ancestry.

Its an interesting question about how you define your genetic heritage. In America for instance they have rules around blood requirements to be part of a specific Native American tribe.

Most of the tribes (Navajo, etc) require either a 25 percent (one grandparent) or 12.5 percent (one great grandparent) to be considered part of their tribe.

Some tribes even require as high as 50 percent (one parent).

The blood percentage is not the only requirement though, they also need to be part of the community / live on the land with the tribe, etc (similar to your 3rd point above).

Also the US Federal government requires that you meet a certain minimum genetic requirement before granting specific Native American federal benefits (25 percent).

It's all 3 points. The heritage thing if you can prove it doesn't matter the small nature.

For me it was very easy to prove as one of my ancestors is a historical figure and her children and the father share my surname and clear in the family tree to my branch that also includes many other indigenous people.

Last point "Being accepted as such by the community in which you live, or formerly lived" only a real prick would fail this. So in my case you can't quantity a percentage of indigenous as so many ancestors of different backgrounds, stolen generation etc. I personally don't claim any kind of benefits due to it but have been encouraged to always tick the "are you aboriginal or Torres strait Islander" box for statistical reasons.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

It won't be literally nothing, it may well cost us Carlton's first pick in the end.

Could be some interesting trade pick horse trading by the Hawks this year to somehow keep that Carlton first pick but at the same time get plenty of mid/late picks for the Greaves pick bid.

Possibly trading out some of our fringe players to get the draft capital we need?

Its definitely doable to keep the Blues first pick and yet get Ollie as well with some creative accounting I would think.

 

[I wanna pash Nash]

It's all 3 points. The heritage thing if you can prove it doesn't matter the small nature.

For me it was very easy to prove as one of my ancestors is a historical figure and her children and the father share my surname and clear in the family tree to my branch that also includes many other indigenous people.

Last point "Being accepted as such by the community in which you live, or formerly lived" only a real prick would fail this. So in my case you can't quantity a percentage of indigenous as so many ancestors of different backgrounds, stolen generation etc. I personally don't claim any kind of benefits due to it but have been encouraged to always tick the "are you aboriginal or Torres strait Islander" box for statistical reasons.

Also important from a health perspective to let your GP know as genetically you'll be predisposed to certain conditions.

My grandma was born and raised on the Torres Strait. I was born in NSW and regrettably never met her, and my Dad wasn't really around so never had any connection to community. But I keloid scar like crazy because of my ancesstory.

 

[kazzooka]

It’s completely cooked.

We have done sweet FA to help this kid, it’s just pure luck that he’s in our zone and we will get him for (essentially) nothing (the point system is easily manipulated by loading up on rubbish late picks that no one uses/wants anyway).

The under 18s footy environment is already there and functioning, there is literally no need for a NGA/Academy.

NGA exists because it's not fair that northern clubs get special draft academies so we want them too.

It's all a massive compromise on the competition. Scrap them all and stick with everyone in normal draft, keep father son but remove the discount and make it that you just get dibs on them. If you don't pick them at 4 you cannot match with 5 as you gave up dibs for 10 picks. Your first matching pick must be within 10 picks of the bid, or your next original pick. So if you have pick 15 you can match pick 1 with later picks making up points. But if you traded your pick 15 away and a bid comes at 10, you need to have a pick under 20, not just your 2nd rounder of 33.

Essentially it means that you will always get the father son if you want them, but you cannot overlook them or trade your picks away. You must have a pick close to their pick worth AND make up the difference with later picks.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

NGA exists because it's not fair that northern clubs get special draft academies so we want them too.

It's all a massive compromise on the competition. Scrap them all and stick with everyone in normal draft, keep father son but remove the discount and make it that you just get dibs on them. If you don't pick them at 4 you cannot match with 5 as you gave up dibs for 10 picks. Your first matching pick must be within 10 picks of the bid, or your next original pick. So if you have pick 15 you can match pick 1 with later picks making up points. But if you traded your pick 15 away and a bid comes at 10, you need to have a pick under 20, not just your 2nd rounder of 33.

Essentially it means that you will always get the father son if you want them, but you cannot overlook them or trade your picks away. You must have a pick close to their pick worth AND make up the difference with later picks.

Totally agree.

Keep the father / son picks but all the rest of the academy / NGA picks get rid of it completely.

 

[mustang]

That would be such a ****ing coup!!!

Looks solid also.

 

[Mojo]

Tbf, we've generally been so unlucky with acquiring father-sons and NGA prospects in the past.

We're OVERDUE at least one top prospect.

 

[Mojo]

Totally agree.

Keep the father / son picks but all the rest of the academy / NGA picks get rid of it completely.

I've always liked the romanticism of father-sons, but in a competition striving for equalisation, the rule creates inequality.

Only 3 months ago the 2024 Premiers picked up one of the best players in the National Draft.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

I've always liked the romanticism of father-sons, but in a competition striving for equalisation, the rule creates inequality.

Only 3 months ago the 2024 Premiers picked up one of the best players in the National Draft.

Personally I am willing to make the trade off on fairness for the father son. Most people would feel the same I think (still room for a little bit of sentiment in the world).

We've just been unlucky as a club with that particular rule but it will turn for us one day soon.

The academies and NGA picks are just flat out rorts though.

 

[RoughysMullet]

I don't see the AFL blocking his eligibility as being the issue but rather their tendency to change this system on a whim mid year. We could easily end up only being able to bid from pick 20 if they choose to go down that path.

This could definitely be the out clause they’ll use to block it from happening

 

[Red4]

Totally agree.

Keep the father / son picks but all the rest of the academy / NGA picks get rid of it completely.

I know this will be unpopular but I do kind of get the academies, if im in a rugby state with massive turnover of vic / sa / wa talent due to homesickness then it makes sense they should get access to homegrown kids to even the game. That said the points matching is an absolute joke, and needs to be reworked to make it far more expensive (in draft capital) to do. Having to have a pick within 5 picks or something for first rounders seems necessary.

 

[South of the Yarra]

The frustrating thing for many of us Aboriginals is that we do have to ‘qualify’ as Aboriginals and we do have to continuously prove who we are. Not many people have to continuously prove their identity of where they come from. Asking an Aboriginal what percentage Aboriginal you are or are whether you are half or quarter Aboriginal can be highly offensive especially to us of the Stolen Generation. Many of our mobs have lost our traditional Aboriginal look for reasons you really don’t want to know about. An Aboriginal is an Aboriginal, that’s the way I see it. You know if you are or not. It is what is inside that counts, not the look on the outside.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Tbf, we've generally been so unlucky with acquiring father-sons and NGA prospects in the past.

We're OVERDUE at least one top prospect.

Even when we was on the bottom of the ladder deserving of pick 3 or 4, our pick got pushed out to 7 or 8.

It’s our turn for a lick of the ice cream, make it happen Hawks, Welcome Ollie G

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

The frustrating thing for many of us Aboriginals is that we do have to ‘qualify’ as Aboriginals and we do have to continuously prove who we are. Not many people have to continuously prove their identity of where they come from. Asking an Aboriginal what percentage Aboriginal you are or are whether you are half or quarter Aboriginal can be highly offensive especially to us of the Stolen Generation. Many of our mobs have lost our traditional Aboriginal look for reasons you really don’t want to know about. An Aboriginal is an Aboriginal, that’s the way I see it. You know if you are or not. It is what is inside that counts, not the look on the outside.

Sadly it’s the odd few who try to scam the system, that makes it hard for the genuine.

 

[cryptor]

AFL would look silly changing the draft position matching limit again so soon. Would make them look indecisive.

Will be interesting to see if the Gowers/Dillon relationship helps here…

 

[kazzooka]

The frustrating thing for many of us Aboriginals is that we do have to ‘qualify’ as Aboriginals and we do have to continuously prove who we are. Not many people have to continuously prove their identity of where they come from. Asking an Aboriginal what percentage Aboriginal you are or are whether you are half or quarter Aboriginal can be highly offensive especially to us of the Stolen Generation. Many of our mobs have lost our traditional Aboriginal look for reasons you really don’t want to know about. An Aboriginal is an Aboriginal, that’s the way I see it. You know if you are or not. It is what is inside that counts, not the look on the outside.

The things that get me with my appearance is people being blatantly racist to my face not knowing my heritage and assuming I'll jump in with a yeah "bloody slurs doing la blah blah".

Or the opposite people telling me "your ancestors stole this land, r*ped and murdered...."

And have to go yeah, my great great grandfather r*ped my great great grandmother and killed her brother. So what am I? Descendant of a rapist or a victim?

Many of us have backgrounds similar, i have the indigenous, convict, free settlers and recent immigrants. My kids too are half Chinese. Our stories aren't told from skin pigment.

 

[caseman2]

The accessibility of a player is based on the AFL playing politics with clubs.

Each club has had zones allocated to them since 2016. Ours includes the Eastern Ranges. These zones can change based on appeal but largely stay relatively similar.

If a player within this zone qualifies as possessing either an Indigenous background or specific multicultural background, they qualify as NGA.

For example, the Gippsland area is part of our NGA. We were able to select CJ through this. Recent top 10 draftee Alix Tauru played for Gippsland too. However, his father was Scandinavian so he didn't qualify.

We were recently denied Christian Moraes because his father was born in Brazil which didn't qualify as a specific multicultural background.

Ryley Sanders was approved to North Melbourne's NGA in 2023 because (for some reason) areas of Tasmania are in their NGA and he has Indigenous heritage. However, prior to last year, you couldn't select NGA's in the top 40. This was brought in because clubs were unhappy Jamarra was not accessible. It was changed last year because clubs complained that Gold Coast could just bring in 4-5 academy players and they were left disadvantaged. Rather than addressing the problem, the AFL just made things worse.

Essendon were the first beneficiary of this, signing Kako at 13. Cody Anderson played for the Eastern Ranges and qualified for our NGA due to his Indigenous heritage.

If Greeves has an Indigenous background, he would be in exactly the same position as Cody Anderson and (under the current rules) would qualify for our NGA. He is considered a top 5 prospect at the moment.

Excellent post - and specifically the clarification around Riley Sanders as I knew there was a similar situation recently.

 

[caseman2]

In that time North missed out on Sanders, Melbourne missed out on Mac Andrew and StKilda missed out on our Cam.

It's a shambles but the afl will do the bare minimum to satisfy 14 clubs while refusing to mess with the advantages for 4.

GC and Sydney have some good prospects this year, surely they can't change it back again because we might benefit.... surely

Unfortunately, the tribal nature of our game and the obssession with the right now, means that if the afl do screw us, not many other clubs will push back.

Sent from my SM-G990E using Tapatalk

We potentially missed out on CJ's brother as well as he was was drafted 37 by Collingwood. And I say potentially as there is no guarantee we were going to take him although the vibes were strong that we would if he fell outside of 40

 

[caseman2]

It won't be literally nothing, it may well cost us Carlton's first pick in the end.

If he was deemed eligible, I dare say we would would trade out our first rounder into the following years draft and acquire later picks for points to match. That would then give us 2 first rounders for when Harley is out of contract - remembering that first rounders now sign 3 year deals.

 

[caseman2]

Hawks seek to add talented midfield prospect to NGA

Hawthorn has put in a submission for Ollie Greeves to join the club's Next Generation Academy ahead of this year's draft

By Callum Twomey

HAWTHORN has applied to have draft prospect Ollie Greeves be a member of its Next Generation Academy.

The AFL has been assessing the Hawks' submission for Greeves, who has an Indigenous background, to be a part of their Academy, which would also give the club access to him at this year's Telstra AFL Draft. The Hawks have been working with Greeves over the past 12 months as part of their submission from last year.

The Eastern Ranges prospect is a tall midfielder and trained with the Hawks over summer as part of the Marsh AFL Academy program.

At 191cm, he has been a dominant midfielder at junior level, including at the under-16 championships in 2023, when he was named an All-Australian. Last season he played seven games for the Ranges.

The League is going through a wide-scale review of the NGA zones as well as criteria on eligibility for players to join clubs, having last year changed the rules to allow clubs to return being able to match bids from pick No.1 onwards.

That allowed Essendon to match a bid on NGA product Isaac Kako at pick No.13, with the small forward booting four goals on Tuesday night against Geelong in the AAMI Community Series.

Clubs will watch with interest over the AFL's decision on Greeves, with the 2025 crop already stacked with prospects tied to Academies.

Zeke Uwland, Dylan Patterson and Beau Addinsall (Gold Coast), Daniel Annable (Brisbane), Max King, Noah Chamberlain and Lachie Carmichael (Sydney) are among the Northern Academy talents, while Wes Walley is a West Coast Next Generation Academy player. Kalani White will have the choice between Gold Coast or Melbourne as a father-son and Tom McGuane is father-son eligible with Collingwood.