Our best rolling 22

[CJMB]

Where a player is drafted and or what we paid via a trade makes no difference to output or selection

Plowman Weitering Newman
Doc Jones Saad

Walsh Cripps Newnes
TDK Williams Setterfield

Martin Levi SPS
Fisher McKay, Fogarty

Gibbons Ed Willo Jack

The Rest: Kemp, Betts, LOB Dow Cuners, Marchbank, Gov, Honey, Ramsay, Philp, Stocker, Cottrell, Kennedy, Pittonet, Murphy, Owies

Injured: Charlie

Kids need to work hard and show consistent output to push out the likes of Gibbons, Newnes, etc

If SPS plays back, you'd think he takes Newman's spot who from the injury report sounded like he won't be right come round 1, then who's your 'next in' to fill the vacant spot?

 

[Macca43]

Fogerty before Gibbons seems very optimistic at this stage.

Not really, they both average about the same number of disposals and score involvements, Fogarty uses the ball better, lays more tackles, get more contested ball and has more clearances.

If Fogarty comes out I would have Cuningham in before Gibbons.

 

[Arr0w]

If SPS plays back, you'd think he takes Newman's spot who from the injury report sounded like he won't be right come round 1, then who's your 'next in' to fill the vacant spot?

If SPS plays back, you still need a 7th rotation, whether that is SPS or Willo (who I prefer on a wing), time will tell. If Newman isn't ready round one, then a number of players could play there and or players shifting back a line to bring in another mid/forward

 

[Metalcrusher]

If SPS plays back, you still need a 7th rotation, whether that is SPS or Willo (who I prefer on a wing), time will tell. If Newman isn't ready round one, then a number of players could play there and or players shifting back a line to bring in another mid/forward

Be the perfect time to slot Stocker in to get some game time up.

 

[Arr0w]

Gibbons criminally underrated last year/preseason and not much has changed

 

[Macca43]

Where a player is drafted and or what we paid via a trade makes no difference to output or selection

Plowman Weitering Newman
Doc Jones Saad

Walsh Cripps Newnes
TDK Williams Setterfield

Martin Levi SPS
Fisher McKay, Fogarty

Gibbons Ed Willo Jack

The Rest: Kemp, Betts, LOB Dow Cuners, Marchbank, Gov, Honey, Ramsay, Philp, Stocker, Cottrell, Kennedy, Pittonet, Murphy, Owies

Injured: Charlie

Kids need to work hard and show consistent output to push out the likes of Gibbons, Newnes, etc

And yet the 3 differences we have are that I have Murphy, Betts and Marchbank in, you have Newman (injured), Newnes and Gibbons.

I agree where a player is taken has no bearing on selection but if 6 of our recent first round picks aren't getting senior games this year we have to start questioning the wisdom of them being drafted.

My money is on at least 2 of those 6 having break out years and pushing Murphy and Betts out (or Gibbons and Newnes in your case).

 

[Metalcrusher]

Gibbons criminally underrated last year/preseason and not much has changed

Yeah i don't get it either, bloke leaves nothing out there. He should mentor Gov ...

 

[Macca43]

Gibbons criminally underrated last year/preseason and not much has changed

I don't think it is criminal to have Murphy ahead of him

Marc Murphy and Michael Gibbons AFL Stats Comparison

Marc Murphy and Michael Gibbons AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[Arr0w]

I don't think it is criminal to have Murphy ahead of him

Marc Murphy and Michael Gibbons AFL Stats Comparison

Marc Murphy and Michael Gibbons AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Not sure why you are comparing Gibbons to Murphy, when you want both to be overtaken

You didn't rate Newnes or Gibbons best 25 last year, yet when fit, played every game.

So before this continue any further, let's dissect end of the year

 

[Macca43]

Not sure why you are comparing Gibbons to Murphy, when you want both to be overtaken

You didn't rate Newnes or Gibbons best 25 last year, yet when fit, played every game.

So before this continue any further, let's dissect end of the year

I am comparing them because I have Murphy in and Gibbons out and you have Murphy out and Gibbons in.

And I didn't have either in our best 25 and they did play every game but with long term injuries to JSOS, Charlie, Marchbank, Fisher, Dow, Stocker etc and lack of reserves games it is still quite possible they weren't in our "best 25".

But once again we largely agree, only 3 differences in our best 22 (1 of which is largely due to injury).

 

[CJMB]

If SPS plays back, you still need a 7th rotation, whether that is SPS or Willo (who I prefer on a wing), time will tell. If Newman isn't ready round one, then a number of players could play there and or players shifting back a line to bring in another mid/forward

I was looking at Willo on the bench as the 7th defender, so SPS back (in place of an unfit Newman) means we've got 7 defenders in the 22. I like Willo on a wing too, but not if it means someone else not suited has to go back (square peg, round hole, etc).

Looking at the possible names and removing those ruled out or in doubt for round 1 (Charlie, Newman, Marchbank?) I keep coming back to a 'most likely to be selected by the coaches against richmond' 22 that looks something like this:

FB: SPS Jones Plow
HB: Doc Weiters Saad
C: Walsh Cripps Martin
HF: Newnes Levi McGovern
FF: Betts McKay Fisher
FOL: TDK Williams Ed
INT: Williamson (def), Setterfield (inside), Murphy (outside), Gibbons/Jack (fwd)
EMG: Pitto, Gibbons/Jack, and two of Cuningham/Dow/Fogarty (then the wildcards of Stocker, Kemp, Honey, Carroll, Durdin, etc)

Obviously some positional interchangeability, could swap Newnes and Martin, but that's kind of as close to a team of incumbents or regulars while selecting the players we know the MC will call out on match day, even if some supporters don't think they should be there (Murph, Gov, Betts, etc).

That's a classic 7d+7m+7f+1r team, so we've effectively got Jack (recently injured) & Gibbo (incumbent) fighting it out for the last spot. I'm not sure I see both of them getting in up forward ahead of Fish, Betts or Gov, but others may disagree.

 

[Macca43]

I was looking at Willo on the bench as the 7th defender, so SPS back (in place of an unfit Newman) means we've got 7 defenders in the 22. I like Willo on a wing too, but not if it means someone else not suited has to go back (square peg, round hole, etc).

Looking at the possible names and removing those ruled out or in doubt for round 1 (Charlie, Newman, Marchbank?) I keep coming back to a 'most likely to be selected by the coaches against richmond' 22 that looks something like this:

FB: SPS Jones Plow
HB: Doc Weiters Saad
C: Walsh Cripps Martin
HF: Newnes Levi McGovern
FF: Betts McKay Fisher
FOL: TDK Williams Ed
INT: Williamson (def), Setterfield (inside), Murphy (outside), Gibbons/Jack (fwd)
EMG: Pitto, Gibbons/Jack, and two of Cuningham/Dow/Fogarty (then the wildcards of Stocker, Kemp, Honey, Carroll, Durdin, etc)

Obviously some positional interchangeability, could swap Newnes and Martin, but that's kind of as close to a team of incumbents or regulars while selecting the players we know the MC will call out on match day, even if some supporters don't think they should be there (Murph, Gov, Betts, etc).

That's a classic 7d+7m+7f+1r team, so we've effectively got Jack (recently injured) & Gibbo (incumbent) fighting it out for the last spot. I'm not sure I see both of them getting in up forward ahead of Fish, Betts or Gov, but others may disagree.

I would have Jack fighting more with McGovern and Gibbons fighting with Fogarty, Cuningham and possibly Durdin.

Really not a fan of Newnes at half forward, if he plays it would be on a wing. No love for Marchbank - not even as an emergency?

 

[Arr0w]

I am comparing them because I have Murphy in and Gibbons out and you have Murphy out and Gibbons in.

And I didn't have either in our best 25 and they did play every game but with long term injuries to JSOS, Charlie, Marchbank, Fisher, Dow, Stocker etc and lack of reserves games it is still quite possible they weren't in our "best 25".

But once again we largely agree, only 3 differences in our best 22 (1 of which is largely due to injury).

So you have Murphy in over Gibbons based on stats, yet Marchbank over Newman, while Newman is better statistically in recent history?

 

[Macca43]

So you have Murphy in over Gibbons based on stats, yet Marchbank over Newman, while Newman is better statistically in recent history?

I have Marchabnk over Newman because Newman is injured and I can't see him playing round 1, which is why I said "3 differences we have are that I have Murphy, Betts and Marchbank in, you have Newman (injured), Newnes and Gibbons." and "But once again we largely agree, only 3 differences in our best 22 (1 of which is largely due to injury)."

And Murphy over Gibbons isn't based on stats, Murphy is clearly the superior player, the stats are simply the quickest way of demonstrating that.

 

[Arr0w]

I have Marchabnk over Newman because Newman is injured and I can't see him playing round 1, which is why I said "3 differences we have are that I have Murphy, Betts and Marchbank in, you have Newman (injured), Newnes and Gibbons." and "But once again we largely agree, only 3 differences in our best 22 (1 of which is largely due to injury)."

And Murphy over Gibbons isn't based on stats, Murphy is clearly the superior player, the stats are simply the quickest way of demonstrating that.

More than 2 months before the first game, all bar Charlie have time to come up.

Stats don't demonstrate missed tackles, missed contested possessions

You also have Fogarty, who has a history of injuries over Gibbons, even though statistically there is little between them

I prefer you just say your bias prefers a number of players in the side, while omitting the ones that your are not a fan of, as that seems the only criteria of consistency in the side you selected

Anyway, this has once again developed into a circular debate, happy to assess it at the end of year, just as we did last year

 

[Macca43]

More than 2 months before the first game, all bar Charlie have time to come up.

Stats don't demonstrate missed tackles, missed contested possessions

You also have Fogarty, who has a history of injuries over Gibbons, even though statistically there is little between them

I prefer you just say your bias prefers a number of players in the side, while omitting the ones that your are not a fan of, as that seems the only criteria of consistency in the side you selected

Anyway, this has once again developed into a circular debate, happy to assess it at the end of year, just as we did last year

Of course you favouring Newnes and Gibbons over Murphy and Betts has no bias in it at all. Everyone has bias, only the impotent are truly pure.

If Newman is fit I would have no trouble putting him in ahead of Marchbank, I simply don't think he will come up based on the time between doing the injury and the start of the season.

Fogarty might "have a history of injury" but isn't injured right now and I really like the look of him and at his age an extra pre-season will have a significant impact plus the opportunity for a bigger role which he was denied at Geelong is a big upside.

But again - we both have Fogarty in the side the difference is Newnes & Gibbons V Murphy & Betts. I am comfortable my 2 are the better players but as I said I am hoping the likes of Kemp, Dow, Stocker & Cuningham emerge and put all 4 out of the side.

And this has only devolved into a circular debate because you aren't reading what I am saying but instead looking for an argument where in fact once again ofur difference are minor - 2 players out of 22 and we both hope all 4 players in dispute are overtaken by our wealth of young talent.

Edit - FWIW if this was truly just a side of players I like Cuningham & Kemp would be shoe ins.

 

[CJMB]

I would have Jack fighting more with McGovern and Gibbons fighting with Fogarty, Cuningham and possibly Durdin.

Really not a fan of Newnes at half forward, if he plays it would be on a wing. No love for Marchbank - not even as an emergency?

I mentioned Marchbank beforehand alongside Newman and Curnow, there still appears to be some uncertainty around him at the moment so didn’t include him.

 

[Arr0w]

Of course you favouring Newnes and Gibbons over Murphy and Betts has no bias in it at all. Everyone has bias, only the impotent are truly pure.

If Newman is fit I would have no trouble putting him in ahead of Marchbank, I simply don't think he will come up based on the time between doing the injury and the start of the season.

Fogarty might "have a history of injury" but isn't injured right now and I really like the look of him and at his age an extra pre-season will have a significant impact plus the opportunity for a bigger role which he was denied at Geelong is a big upside.

But again - we both have Fogarty in the side the difference is Newnes & Gibbons V Murphy & Betts. I am comfortable my 2 are the better players but as I said I am hoping the likes of Kemp, Dow, Stocker & Cuningham emerge and put all 4 out of the side.

And this has only devolved into a circular debate because you aren't reading what I am saying but instead looking for an argument where in fact once again ofur difference are minor - 2 players out of 22 and we both hope all 4 players in dispute are overtaken by our wealth of young talent.

Macca, have tried hard to keep this on course despite you shifting.

I don't have any bias at all, I don't give a * who starts round 1 and my only "hope" is the kids continue to develop and push out the aging players and or those underperforming

This all started by your bizzare opinion that we won't play finals until the foot soldiers are replaced, even though every finals side has them.

If it isn't bias, then your assessment last year, after continual debate about the likes of Newnes, Gibbons and the likes was completely off the mark.

If that's the case, I don't value your assessment, so perhaps move on to another that could be swayed by your inconsistency, as I am satisfied by my assessment, one that at this stage mirrors the MC

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Round 1: Pressure and Run...
This is how I’d like us to line up if all goes well by preseasons end...

B- Saad Jones Plowman
B- Docherty Weitering SPS
C- Williams Cripps Williamson
F- Cunners Casboult Martin
F- McGovern McKay Fisher
R- DeKoning Setterfield Walsh
I- Curnow Dow Murphy Fogarty

E- Betts Silvagni Newnes Gibbons Pittonett Philp Stocker Pittonett...

Inj/Doubtful atm- Curnow... Newman Marchbank

 

[Macca43]

Macca, have tried hard to keep this on course despite you shifting.

I don't have any bias at all, I don't give a fu** who starts round 1 and my only "hope" is the kids continue to develop and push out the aging players and or those underperforming

This all started by your bizzare opinion that we won't play finals until the foot soldiers are replaced, even though every finals side has them.

If it isn't bias, then your assessment last year, after continual debate about the likes of Newnes, Gibbons and the likes was completely off the mark.

If that's the case, I don't value your assessment, so perhaps move on to another that could be swayed by your inconsistency, as I am satisfied by my assessment, one that at this stage mirrors the MC

It isn't bizarre at all, we get better by replacing foot soldiers with better players, it is that simple.You listed Robinson as a foot soldier at the lions the other day and he is, but he is a foot soldier that has won a club B&F.

When we make finals we will still have the likes of Casboult, Plowman and Ed who will be described as foot soldiers but we will have less foot soldiers and the ones we have will be better quality playing specific roles.

We also have to get better at a greater rate than the teams above us have improved.

And if you are the one person in the world without bias I apologise, but your selection of Newnes and Gibbons over the likes of Murphy suggests otherwise.

And FWIW, the only reason you think I am shifting and inconsistent is because you don't actually read what I say, you leap to oppose. As I have repeatedly said we are once again very close in opinion, I favour the aging quality of Betts and Murphy as player 21 & 22 while you like the limited journeymen of Newnes and Gibbons, we both hope the young players continue to develop and make all 4 redundant.

 

[Macca43]

Round 1: Pressure and Run...
This is how I’d like us to line up if all goes well by preseasons end...

B- Saad Jones Plowman
B- Docherty Weitering SPS
C- Williams Cripps Williamson
F- Cunners Casboult Martin
F- McGovern McKay Fisher
R- DeKoning Setterfield Walsh
I- Curnow Dow Murphy Fogarty

E- Betts Silvagni Newnes Gibbons Pittonett Philp Stocker Pittonett...

Inj/Doubtful atm- Curnow... Newman Marchbank

I would enjoy watching that 22 thats for sure, genuinely exciting players on every line, if the likes of Williamson, Cuningham, Fisher, Dow, Fogarty and McGovern can all make themselves best 22 players we will be playing finals for sure but it might be a bit too much to ask for all of them to pay off.

 

[Arr0w]

It isn't bizarre at all, we get better by replacing foot soldiers with better players, it is that simple.You listed Robinson as a foot soldier at the lions the other day and he is, but he is a foot soldier that has won a club B&F.

When we make finals we will still have the likes of Casboult, Plowman and Ed who will be described as foot soldiers but we will have less foot soldiers and the ones we have will be better quality playing specific roles.

We also have to get better at a greater rate than the teams above us have improved.

And if you are the one person in the world without bias I apologise, but your selection of Newnes and Gibbons over the likes of Murphy suggests otherwise.

And FWIW, the only reason you think I am shifting and inconsistent is because you don't actually read what I say, you leap to oppose. As I have repeatedly said we are once again very close in opinion, I favour the aging quality of Betts and Murphy as player 21 & 22 while you like the limited journeymen of Newnes and Gibbons, we both hope the young players continue to develop and make all 4 redundant.

More deflections and selective posting

Was Robinson not delisted after being shopped around and no one wanting him? He improves to win a BnF but you can't fathom other journeymen could do the same. But again you cherry pick one player in a list I posted

Your assessment last you was completely wrong, so once again gi attempt to sway other posters, I ain't buying

 

[Macca43]

More deflections and selective posting

Was Robinson not delisted after being shopped around and no one wanting him? He improves to win a BnF but you can't fathom other journeymen could do the same. But again you cherry pick one player in a list I posted

Your assessment last you was completely wrong, so once again gi attempt to sway other posters, I ain't buying

Delfections? They are explanations.

Robinson was delisted because of various off field issues and basically a Malthouse induced depression - I don't see Newnes and Gibbons having that sort of upside. Here is another player in that list - Hodge, he won a couple of awards didn't he? Stefan Martin was another player on it, he won a club B&F as well.

For someone who apparently doesn't care what the round 1 side is and has no bias you seem to get very upset when someone lists a side whose only differnce is it leaves Newnes and Gibbons out of the side for two aging elite players.

If you aren't buying it, let it go.

 

[thylacine60]

ffs

 

[Ash24]

This team is centred around midfield rotation.

FB - Plowman, Jones, Marchbank

HB - Saad, Weitering, Docherty

M - Williamson, Cripps, Walsh

HF - Martin, Casboult, Gibbons

FF - Fisher, McKay, Betts

FOL - De Koning, Setterfield, Williams

I/C - Murphy, Petrevski-Seton, E. Curnow, Silvagni

EMG - Kemp, Newnes, Cuningham, McGovern

INJ - C. Curnow, Newman


ROTATIONS
~ SPS and Willo between HB and wing
~ Walsh between on ball and wing
~ JSOS on ball to let Cripps rest forward
~ Williams and Martin between HF and wing/on ball
~ Murphy and Gibbons between HF and wing/on ball

JUSTIFICATION
~ Betts - Was our leading goal kicker for the first half of the year before the condensed fixture. Still think he has more to give, especially in front of crowds.
~ Murphy - Happy to leave him in the side for now, until Willo solidifies a permanent spot on the wing, or SPS to move full time into the middle. Same can be said about Dow, Stocker, Kemp, Philp etc.
~ Gibbons - It was either between him or Newnes. Gibbo is higher on tackles, score involvements and metres gained. Newnes higher on average goals (only by 0.1). Both have similar possession numbers and disposal efficiency. I chose Gibbons.