Teams Philadelphia Eagles - The Gold Standard

Remove this Banner Ad

So aside from that round 2 pick I think it was a solid draft without being spectacular. There seems to be plenty of value in the day 3 picks so as always you hope a couple of them come through.

Their offence plan seems to be :
Ertz/Goddert as your meat and potatoes accumulators
Sanders/Scott to run and both can catch well out of the backfield
Now lets copy KC (and address an obvious issue) by adding Reagor and Hightower
Then lets copy NO by drafting Hurts to play the Taysom Hill role

If the above works and Dillard can hold down left tackle and Kelce returns, F me this offence will be insanse fun each week.

* Having said that drafting Hurts was a waste of a pick
 
A11dAtP0w3R said:
Well, logic says if you take a QB in the second round you consider him more than just a backup. I wouldn't move Wentz, but I believe there is much more to this than what we are just hearing, Philly wanting to become the QB factory of the universe.
Click to expand...

Logic absolutely says you don't draft him. But that's the criticism- that it's illogical to have done this.

It's one thing to search for rationality amongst irrational behaviour, it's another to use it try to suggest that something even more irrational must therefore be rational.

The most likely thing is that they simply had the highest grade on him, and decided that the value was too high to pass up.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Trading Wentz would cost 43m in dead cap. It's not even far fetched. It's downright ******* stupid to even think that
 
says it all

Every excuse the Eagles have given for drafting Jalen Hurts is stupid


The Eagles are trying every excuse they can think of to justify using their 2nd round pick on a quarterback. They’re all stupid.

First let’s take a look at how unusual this situation is. Over the past 20 years, 21 QBs have been drafted in the 2nd round. Teams that have drafted them have usually fit one of two profiles: they have a starter in their mid to late 30s, or their QB depth chart is awful. There’s a third category of drafting an insurance policy behind a QB in his early 30s with injury concerns, but 75% of the time that starting QB was the same person. Nearly a third of the time, the team has had a new coach putting his own mark on the team.

2nd Round QBs 2000-2019
YearQBTeamQB#Other QB(s)CategoryNew coach?Notes
2019Drew LockDEN4th34 year old Joe FlaccoAging vetYes
2017DeShone KizerCLE4thKevin Hogan and Cody KesslerBad starterNo3 QBs started the year before
2016Christian HackenbergNYJ4th34 year old Ryan FitzpatrickAging vetNo
2014Derek CarrOAK4th33 year old Matt SchaubAging vetNo3 QBs started the year before
2014Jimmy GaroppoloNE5th37 year old Tom BradyAging vetNo
2013Geno SmithNYJ2nd35 year old David Garrard, Matt SimsEverythingNoGarrard retired a month later
2012Brock OsweilerDEN5th36 year old Peyton ManningAging vetNoManning had missed previous season
2011Andy DaltonCIN5thBruce GradkowskiBad starterNoPrevious seasons's starter retired in offseason
2011Colin KaepernickSF6thAlex SmithBad starterYesSmith's career passer rating was 76.4
2010Jimmy ClausenCAR3rdMatt MooreBad starterNoPrevious season's starter was cut
2009Pat WhiteMIA4th33 year old Chad PenningtonInsuranceNoDrafted as a wildcat QB
2008Brian BrohmGB3rdAaron RodgersInsuranceNoRodgers had yet to start a game
2008Chad HenneMIA4th32 year old Chad PenningtonInsuranceYesPennington had missed 8 games in 2007
2007Kevin KolbPHI3rd31 year old Donovan McNabbInsuranceNoMcNabb missed 13 games previous two seasons
2007John BeckMIA4th37 year old Trent GreenAging vetYes3 QBs started the year before
2007Drew StantonDET5th35 year old Jon KitnaAging vetNo
2006Kellen ClemensNYJ4thChad PenningtonInsuranceYesPennington had never started 16 games
2006Tarvaris JacksonMIN5th38 year old Brad JohnsonAging vetYesPrevious season's starter was traded
2001Drew BreesSD2nd39 year old Doug FlutieAging vetNo3 QBs started the year before
2001Quincy CarterDAL3rdRyan Leaf, Clint StoernerBad starterNoPrevious seasons's starter retired in offseason
2001Marques TuiasosopoOAK4th36 year old Rich GannonAging vetNo
The Eagles fit none of these profiles. The only situations that are remotely close here are the 2007 Eagles and 2008 Packers, but those comparisons are thin. Both were controversial picks, but you could at least sort of see where they were coming from.

McNabb had missed 6 and 7 games in each of the previous two seasons, and was coming off an ACL tear. There was deserved controversy when Kolb was selected, but a 31 year old coming off a major injury is a reason to consider drafting a backup.

Advertisement
Rodgers was handed the starting job due to Brett Favre finally leaving, but he had just 59 career attempts. This pick was also controversial and led to Packers GM Ted Thompson having to immediately say that they are fully confident in Rodgers, just like the Eagles did with Wentz. With an unknown as your starter, you can understand the idea of adding an insurance policy. Green Bay then doubled up and took Matt Flynn in the 7th round. It’s worth pointing out that Mike McCarthy, Rodgers’ head coach in 2008 and the 49ers offensive coordinator in 2005, was a reason why the 49ers passed on Rodgers in the 2005 draft.

Value Pick
What is good value for a 2nd round pick? What is good value for a backup quarterback? Your mileage may vary on the exact answers, but there are four outcomes to this selection.

The first is that Jalen Hurts succeeds Carson Wentz as the starting QB, and is good. If that’s the case the Eagles will look kind of brilliant, but also like morons for giving 26 year old Carson Wentz a contract extension and then turning on him a year later. It is not a scenario that fills you with confidence about the organization. This would be great value, but for all the wrong reasons.

The second is that the Eagles get quality backup play of Hurts but without Wentz suffering serious injury, then flip Hurts for draft capital/players. We’ll come back to this.

The third is that Hurts plays enough and well enough for a team to want him, but not enough for a team to trade for him. We’ve seen this before with Tyrod Taylor, but he was a 6th round pick and gave the Ravens no on field value, he had 63 touches in four years. For a 6th rounder that’s great value, for a 2nd not so much. In this scenario the Eagles would get at best a 3rd round comp pick in 2024. While not the worst outcome, as having a quality backup and getting a 3rd round comp pick are both valuable, having your 2nd round pick walk in free agency would be embarrassing.

The fourth is that Jalen Hurts stinks and he is either released or walks in free agency and doesn’t register as a comp pick, and the Eagles get nothing. The worst possible outcome, and considering the bust rate of quarterbacks, also the most likely.

So let’s assume a the second option, which is a best case scenario: nothing serious goes wrong with Carson Wentz, but Hurts has trade value in two or three years. It is unrealistic to expect the Eagles acquire a better pick than they gave up.

Over the past 10 years, quarterbacks have been traded for draft capital 42 times. 32 times they were traded for a 4th round pick or later.

QB For Draft Pick Trades 2010-2020
YearQBPick(s) ReceivedOriginally AcquiredNote
2020Nick Foles4thFA
2020Kyle Allen5thUDFA
2019Ryan Tannehill4th & 7th1stAlso sent a 6th
2019Case Keenum6th & 7thFA
2019Josh Rosen2nd & 5th1st
2019Josh Dobbs5th4th
2019Joe Flacco4th1st
2018Alex Smith3rd2ndAlso recieved Kendall Fuller
2018Teddy Bridgewater3rdFAAlso sent a 6th
2018Trevor Siemian5th7thAlso sent a 7th
2018DeShone Kizer4th & 5th2ndAlso sent a 4th & 5th, received Damarious Randall
2018AJ McCarron5th5th
2018Brett Hundley6th5th
2018Kevin Hogan6th5thAlso sent a 6th
2018Cody Kessler7th3rd
2017Jimmy Garoppolo2nd2ndIn season
2017Tyrod Taylor3rdFA
2017Brock Osweiler4thFAAlso sent a 2nd and 6th
2017Cardale Jones7th4th
2016Sam Bradford1st, 4th2nd & 4thIn season
2016Matt Cassel5thFAAlso sent a 7th
2015Sam Bradford2nd & 4th1stAlso sent a 5th, received Nick Foles
2015Nick Foles5th3rdAlso sent a 2nd & 4th, received Sam Bradford
2015Ryan Fitzpatrick6thFA
2015Case Keenum7thFA
2015Matt Cassel6th & 7thFA
2015Matt Barkley7th4th
2014Carson Palmer6th & 7th1st & 2ndAlso sent a 7th
2014Ryan Mallet7th3rd
2014Matt Schaub6thTwo 2nds, swap of 1sts
2014Blaine Gabbert6th1st
2014Terrelle Pryor7th3rd
2013Alex Smith2nd1st
2013Matt Flynn5thFA
2013Colt McCoy5th & 7th3rdAlso sent a 6th
2012Tarvaris Jackson7thFA
2012Tim Tebow4th & 6th1stAlso sent a 7th
2012Brady Quinn6th1stAlso recieved Peyton Hillis
2012Drew Stanton6thFAAlso sent a 7th
2011Carson Palmer1st & 2nd1stIn season
2011Kevin Kolb2nd2ndAlso recieved Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
2011Donovan McNabb6th2nd & 4th
Let’s focus on the ten that were dealt for at least a 3rd round pick. Seven of the ten trades were for experienced QBs: Carson Palmer, Alex Smith twice, Sam Bradford twice, Teddy Bridgewater, and Tyrod Taylor. All were starters for at least two years.

In just three of 42 trades over the past decade was a QB with fewer than two years of starting experience traded for better than a 4th round pick: Josh Rosen, Jimmy Garoppolo, and Kevin Kolb. Rosen was traded for less value than the pick he was taken for. Garoppolo and Kolb were traded for a pick in the same round they were drafted in, though the Eagles also received DRC for Kolb.

Advertisement
So the best case scenario that doesn’t involve Carson Wentz missing significant time is the Eagles getting a high 2nd round pick, or a later 2nd round and a starter in three or four years. Is that the best use of the 53rd overall pick? Was that the best use of the 53rd overall pick for the 2020 Eagles? Is that reward worth the risk for this team?

The QB Factory
Howie Roseman was deservedly mocked for his “QB factory” comment. It’s the new “gold standard” line that should haunt them for years. This is of course absurd, as the Eagles under Doug Pederson have truly developed one QB: Carson Wentz. Nick Foles was a finished product that they fixed up and they deserve credit for both of those. But Chase Daniel, McLeod-Bethel Thompson, Matt McGloin, Aaron Murray, Joe Callahan, Christian Hackenberg, Louis Perez, Cody Kessler and Clayton Thorson have come and gone for nothing, and it is hard to see them getting anything for Nate Sudfeld.

If you want to add a quality backup QB with the hope of getting draft capital out of him, you don’t have to use draft capital to get him. The Eagles should know this since it’s what they did with Nick Foles. The Eagles gave up nothing nor canceled out a comp pick for signing Foles, then gained a 3rd round comp pick for him. They got the benefit of having a veteran QB rather than a developmental one, got good play out of him (well, great play out of him, but let’s not raise the bar too high), and they got a valuable pick in return. That’s manufacturing, or more accurately refurbishing. There are several QBs available in free agency right now that would be quality backups. (You will see this material again.) You’d have a much higher floor of play if Wentz were to miss time, and potentially essentially buy draft picks.

Cheap contract to spend elsewhere
It’s true that the Eagles save cap space by going with a rookie QB. But they haven’t operated this way for most of the Doug Pederson era, they paid high salaries to their backups while Carson Wentz was on his cheap rookie contract. Chase Daniel got $12M for one year of work, they ate $11M of Sam Bradford’s contract, and paid Nick Foles $15M for two years. Josh McCown’s $2M was actually a fair market value. Now that Wentz is highly paid they apparently want to save money on his backups to invest elsewhere. That would be fine but they haven’t really invested that money. The addition of Marquise Goodwin will count for $4M in 2020, but it is next to impossible to see them keeping him in 2021 when he’s scheduled to make $7M. He is the only veteran they have acquired on offense.

Great Teammate
In a not so subtle shot at the anonymous sources who have said mean things about Carson Wentz—who they are trying to protect by using a 2nd rounder on his backup and creating a media focal point—the Eagles went out of their way to talk about what a great guy Jalen Hurts is. I’m sure he is. I have no ill will towards Hurts, this isn’t about him as a person or player. I’m glad the Eagles drafted a high character guy instead of someone who might assault a cabana boy. It feels nice to root for good guys. But “we wanted to get him a friend” is something you say about adopting another pet, not drafting a player.

COVID-19
This one is just pathetic. It’s sad really. In an incredible display of not having a bullshit filter, Adam Schefter actually went on national TV and said this:

Now in this day and age, I’ve had teams tell me it’s more important than ever to have a backup quarterback in this pandemic. We’re going to be playing next year, coronavirus is out there, COVID-19, what if your quarterback gets the virus? It’s an interesting situation here. I think there are more problems than ever before. And so I think teams are looking up to sure up the most important position in the sport. And that’s why the Eagles did it.
Click to expand...
“What if your quarterback gets the virus?” What if your quarterback gets the virus.

I can not imagine the stupidity it takes to come up with a scenario in your galaxy brain that Carson Wentz gets Coronavirus but nobody else on the team does. The entire reason you can’t eat in a restaurant right now is that simply being in a room while having the virus puts everyone in the room at high risk of contracting the virus. If Carson Wentz has it then there’s a really good chance that Jalen Hurts has it too. That QB room ain’t in open air.

And it ignores that the NBA came to a screeching halt when one player tested positive, and then we found out that several players he either played with or against also got it. The NFL would have to be Brian Kemp level of tone deaf to keep playing if this happened, and the NFLPA would have to be injecting bleach into their bodies level of dumb to allow it to happen. We’re not even confident that there will be a season, or when it will start.

Speaking of Coronavirus, I wrote this in a piece about why the Eagles would be wasting a day three pick on a QB, but it applies to a second rounder as well:

The COVID-19 pandemic adds another layer to this. This is not an ideal offseason to draft a developmental QB. These QBs need hands on coaching, a ton of practice reps, hours and hours of film study with coaches, and other things that aren’t going to happen this summer. We can not even be sure at this time when the season will begin. It’s a bad environment to bring a late round QB into.
Click to expand...
If you’re truly weighing how the pandemic will or could affect your QB situation, wouldn’t you be better off signing a guy with experience to take over if necessary?

Taysom Hill
If not for Adam Schefter’s pandemic concerns, this would be the most pathetic reason. Taysom Hill was an undrafted free agent who wasn’t even originally signed by the Saints, he started with the Packers so the Saints were able to let another team spend time and effort figuring out if Hill was worth even a practice squad roster spot. The Saints stashed him on the roster for a year before using him as a utility player of questionable value. Every time he throws the ball is a time when Drew freaking Brees doesn’t. Because of that they’ve only let him throw 13 times, he has a 46.6 passer rating. Last season he averaged 15 snaps a game, and his playing time decreased when Brees was injured, he played 17 snaps per game when Brees was healthy, 12 per game when he was hurt. The guy at the top of Taysom Hill’s positional depth chart missed nearly six games and he ended the season 17th in offensive snaps. The Saints third string center played more than Taysom Hill did. Hill was the Saints #3 QB last season and the Saints are so confident in his abilities as a backup quarterback that they just signed Jameis Winston to be the #2. Hey look at that, a team trying to win a Super Bowl and with an injury concern at QB signed a veteran to be the backup. Apparently that’s an option.

These excuses that the Eagles have either peddled out themselves or got water carrying media members to repeat aren’t just weak, they’re insultingly stupid.
Click to expand...


But it's done & thankfully there's a few other additions to get a bit excited about.
 
Southerntakeover said:
That is so stupid.

You spend a second round pick on someone for a few little trick plays here and there, rather than someone who can actually contribute to a position of need as a low salary starter for years?

Our front office doesnt just drink its own bath water right now, when its time to piss it out they bottle it and drink it again later. Have any of our 'outsmarting the league' picks ever actually worked out ever?

Just pick football players to play.
Click to expand...
Isn’t this what you wanted with Michael Vick and Vince Young all those years ago?
 
A11dAtP0w3R said:
Well, logic says if you take a QB in the second round you consider him more than just a backup. I wouldn't move Wentz, but I believe there is much more to this than what we are just hearing, Philly wanting to become the QB factory of the universe.
Click to expand...
rumply said:
Click to expand...


Ahhh yes, "the QB Factory".
What complete, utter garbage that line was from Howie.

As noted in the article quoted above:

"Chase Daniel, McLeod-Bethel Thompson, Matt McGloin, Aaron Murray, Joe Callahan, Christian Hackenberg, Louis Perez, Cody Kessler and Clayton Thorson have come and gone for nothing, and it is hard to see them getting anything for Nate Sudfeld."​

I would add Kevin Kolb (2nd rounder), Mike Kafka (4th rounder) and Matt Barkley (4th rounder) to that list, to say nothing of the factory of free agency awesomeness that includes Sam Bradford, Vince Young, Mark Sanchez and Trent Edwards. If you want to be cruel and include the Chupa Chup Kelly years, that list expands to include Tim freakin' Tebow.

Quite the QB production line.
Even my neighbour's second cousin's 69 year old great uncle gets better production and reliability out of his 1952 vintage Lada factory in the dark cold Siberian tundra.
 
Last edited:
Eagles GM Howie Roseman confirmed the team wants to feature more of a down-field passing attack in 2020.
"We want to throw the ball down the field," Roseman said matter of factly. "We don’t want to be station-to-station football — that’s not what coach (Doug) Pederson wants.” The Eagles have been hunting for more of a down-field element for several years but keep getting sidelined by injuries, including DeSean Jackson's in 2019. D-Jax is returning for 2020, but Roseman took matters into his own hands during the draft, selecting three speed-demon wideouts, highlighted by first-rounder Jalen Reagor. After years of an efficiency-at-all-costs mindset, NFL offenses are slowly beginning to open up again. Coming off a white-hot finish with an enfeebled supporting cast, Carson Wentz will be a highly-intriguing re-draft option this season.
SOURCE: Ian Rapoport on Twitter
Apr 28, 2020, 1:23 PM ET
 
rumply said:
Sounds like JP will be back as starting LT, doesn't say much for Dillard if so.
Click to expand...
back maybe (hopefully), but no guarantee he will start, or at least start the whole season. He thought someone else would pay him another 6mil to be a starter, the eagles played the FA game and possibly won.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Carson Wentz confirmed he suffered a concussion in the team's Wild Card playoff loss to the Seahawks.
Wentz exited the game following a hit by Jadeveon Clowney after just four passing attempts, with Josh McCown ultimately leading Philadelphia to a 17-9 defeat. "It was scary stuff," Wentz said of the concussion-like symptoms. "You only get one of these brains and you have to protect it." Wentz has not finished the season healthy in each of the last three years. Much of the Eagles' offseason has been geared towards helping their quarterback - drafting two speed receivers in Jalen Reagor and John Hightower, and trading for another in Marquise Goodwin. And to protect their side, GM Howie Roseman spent a second-round pick on backup quarterback Jalen Hurts.
SOURCE: Mike Garafolo on Twitter
May 4, 2020, 1:28 PM ET
 
Week 1 - at Washington Redskins (Sept. 13, 1:00 PM ET, FOX)

Week 2 - vs. Los Angeles Rams (Sept. 20, 1:00 PM ET, FOX)

Week 3 - vs. Cincinnati Bengals (Sept. 27, 1:00 PM ET, CBS)

Week 4 - at San Francisco 49ers (Oct. 4, 8:20 PM ET, NBC) Sunday Night Football

Week 5 - at Pittsburgh Steelers (Oct. 11, 1:00 PM ET, FOX)

Week 6 - vs. Baltimore Ravens (Oct. 18, 1:00 PM ET, CBS)

Week 7 - vs. New York Giants (Oct. 22, 8:20 PM ET, FOX/NFL Network/Amazon) Thursday Night Football

Week 8 - vs. Dallas Cowboys (Nov. 1, 8:20 PM ET, NBC) Sunday Night Football

Week 9 - BYE

Week 10 - at New York Giants (Nov. 15, 1:00 PM ET, FOX)

Week 11 - at Cleveland Browns (Nov. 22, 1:00 PM ET, FOX)

Week 12 - vs. Seattle Seahawks (Nov. 30, 8:15 PM ET, ESPN) Monday Night Football

Week 13 - at Green Bay Packers (Dec. 6, 4:25 PM ET, CBS)

Week 14 - vs. New Orleans Saints (Dec. 13, 4:25 PM ET, FOX)

Week 15 - at Arizona Cardinals (Dec. 20, 4:05 PM ET, FOX)

Week 16 - at Dallas Cowboys (Dec. 27, 4:25 PM ET, FOX)

Week 17 - vs. Washington Redskins (Jan. 3, 1:00 PM ET, FOX)
 
rumply said:
Birds put in bid for Clowney apparently, guess that's one way to keep him away from Wentz.
Click to expand...
not sure it's the most pressing need but the birds certainly do like stocking the D-line as much as possible. Certainly protects the (complete lack of) linebackers
 
www.nbcsports.com

Brandon Brooks tears Achilles, out for season, sources say

Months away from the start of the 2020 season and the Eagles have already been dealt a devastating blow. Eagles right guard Brandon Brooks on Monday tore his left Achilles tendon while working out at the NovaCare Complex, according to sources. He will miss the entire 2020 season. I’m told...
www.nbcsports.com www.nbcsports.com
 
rumply said:
www.nbcsports.com

Brandon Brooks tears Achilles, out for season, sources say

Months away from the start of the 2020 season and the Eagles have already been dealt a devastating blow. Eagles right guard Brandon Brooks on Monday tore his left Achilles tendon while working out at the NovaCare Complex, according to sources. He will miss the entire 2020 season. I’m told...
www.nbcsports.com www.nbcsports.com
Click to expand...
Dammit. Wentz under even more pressure now, unless we can get Peters back?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

balmainforever
  • Poll
NFL 2022 NFC Championship Game - San Francisco at Philadelphia
31 32 33 34 35
Replies
874
Views
12K
Exe Gesis
Exe Gesis
balmainforever
  • Poll
NFL Super Bowl LVII - Kansas City vs Philadelphia - Mon @10:30AM AEDT
82 83 84 85 86
Replies
2K
Views
30K
Exe Gesis
Exe Gesis
FrontnCentrePod
MVP Watch in the Playoffs 🏆
Replies
0
Views
328
FrontnCentrePod
FrontnCentrePod
manureid
Fantasy The Terrible Fantasy Manager / Bad Beats Thread
3 4 5 6 7
Replies
174
Views
5K
Constantgin
Constantgin
The Cardtrader
Aussie Punters a hit in the Canadian Football League global draft
Replies
0
Views
440
The Cardtrader
The Cardtrader

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top