NFL Super Bowl LVII - Kansas City vs Philadelphia - Mon @10:30AM AEDT

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Super Bowl LVII - When is it on? How do I watch? - AFL News

The 2023 NFL Super Bowl, one of America’s largest and […]

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[My Tilly]

Ok guy who says Kelce and Hill are better than Gronk and Moss (literally the 2nd best TE and WR ever)

What the hell! I never said that at all.
I said Gronk is a better player than Kelce but Kelce is now bridging the gap. Do you watch the sport? Kelce is a beast. Literally one of the greatest of his position to ever do it.

I also said Moss was not the equal of Hill when he played with the Patriots (aged 30+).

Moss was a better player than Hill but Hill has been smack bang in his prime during the Chiefs era.

 

[J Shuttlesworth]

Cause a flag is missed in the first half does that mean the refs have to miss everything for the rest of the game now in order to be consistent or is it better to actually get the calls right and admit an earlier * up but lets not miss another.

It is a double edge sword depending on who you wanted to win and team alliances etc. Reverse the teams involved and Philly fans would be gloating saying it was 100% the correct call and celebrating etc and dont tell me you wouldnt be!

Sometimes it sucks to be on the wrong end of the stick and trust me a Cowboys fans knows this all to well.

It is just the way pro sports are and for every achievement and massive high it gives you the disappointment of the past seems to linger and hurt more for some reason.

I still to this day remember the Dez no catch in GB after which the rules were changed more clearly than seeing 3 SB wins in the 90s.

We don't like to apply the human factor to the refs.

But the stage and moment is just as big for them, which of course includes the pressure of potentially missing a game changing call after seeing an indiscretion, however slight.

I'm sure if you asked them they would rather not have to call anything at that stage either.

 

[Chism]

We don't like to apply the human factor to the refs.

But the stage and moment is just as big for them, which of course includes the pressure of potentially missing a game changing call after seeing an indiscretion, however slight.

I'm sure if you asked them they would rather not have to call anything at that stage either.

Exactly.

No matter if the Flag stays in their pocket or on the ground one certain bunch of people are never going to be happy no matter what they do.

 

[AJ_2000]

But at least by not asking them to factor in "the moment" is one less thing they can miss.

 

[J Shuttlesworth]

Exactly.

No matter if the Flag stays in their pocket or on the ground one certain bunch of people are never going to be happy no matter what they do.

Yeah, it soothes no wounds to say.

It's always interesting though that when it's spoken about after the fact, and we are all guilty of it at times, it's all so simple for the ref. As if just referring under normal circumstances isn't already hard enough

 

[J Shuttlesworth]

But at least by not asking them to factor in "the moment" is one less thing they can miss.

It's completely irrational and not possible, and for those conspiracy theorists among us would only serve to hand more control to the league and/or refs in relation to potentially determining the outcomes of games.

In that regard they would be creating an out for them to just say we didn't call it due to the 'moment'.

Also have fun getting everyone to agree upon the matrix that determines the severity of the transgression vs the moment and where the lines sit.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Do people really think that was the only defensive hold to occur during the entire game?

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

lol, and this is why I'm out.
Talk about a pack of sorry losers.
GG.exe is one of the few who actually knows his stuff in here.

Have a good night.

Go Chiefs!
Told you fools they'd win it in a classic.

No need to leave but going by your logic Eli is twice the player Brady was considering 2-0 in SBs

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The call was there, we just hate that the game finished that way.

I'm against "the theatre of the moment" argument, asking refs to judge the moment is yet another crazy judgement we're asking them to make. They are already stretching with the stupid way rules are returned already.

If you're going to make the call, just make sure you've been calling it that way all day. Don't swallow your whistle for "the moment". I'm pretty sure Saints fans aren't impressed with the botched PI call.

If it's soft, then that's up to the rule makers to fix. Not for the zebras to make it up as they go

Nah I disagree, there's something to be said for "put the whistle (flag) away" - it doesn't mean don't call anything but don't go making game/championship defining calls on something that doesn't impact the play. Umps/refs need to have a feel for the game, if that call wasn't made would Chiefs fans be shouting they'd been robbed? It would probably be the same type of argument "you might have been able to call it technically but you can understand the decision not to pay it".

 

[AJ_2000]

Nah I disagree, there's something to be said for "put the whistle (flag) away" - it doesn't mean don't call anything but don't go making game/championship defining calls on something that doesn't impact the play. Umps/refs need to have a feel for the game, if that call wasn't made would Chiefs fans be shouting they'd been robbed? It would probably be the same type of argument "you might have been able to call it technically but you can understand the decision not to pay it".

I get it. We want the players to sort it out on the field. In a perfect world it would be nice.

Unfortunately it's pretty much not possible in a game with that struggles to work out what a catch is (as the answer begins with "it depends") and pretty much every decision that they make is a judgement call.

He's called the hold at the line of scrimmage, before the pass is made, so how will the ref then know if it's going to impact what happens next? Was he going to get open? Did the grab stop him from getting to his spot on the route? Did the QB decide against the throw as he's going through his progression and sees the defender locking him up?

It's easy go back and question it because the ball sails over the receiver, and then assume that the hold didn't have an impact on the route, but that's not the rule.

 

[damochandler]

What was wrong with the surface the play on all year round at State Farm stadium. Are they going to experiment next year in Vegas, they have the same setup

 

[andana]

What was wrong with the surface the play on all year round at State Farm stadium. Are they going to experiment next year in Vegas, they have the same setup

That grass has only been down for two weeks. Guess it didn't work right. Maybe it was the 'paint'

Allegiant uses artificial grass for UNLV games and natural grass for The Raiders. It's not the same type of grass used at Arizona.

 

[Exe Gesis]

I get it. We want the players to sort it out on the field. In a perfect world it would be nice.

Unfortunately it's pretty much not possible in a game with that struggles to work out what a catch is (as the answer begins with "it depends") and pretty much every decision that they make is a judgement call.

He's called the hold at the line of scrimmage, before the pass is made, so how will the ref then know if it's going to impact what happens next? Was he going to get open? Did the grab stop him from getting to his spot on the route? Did the QB decide against the throw as he's going through his progression and sees the defender locking him up?

It's easy go back and question it because the ball sails over the receiver, and then assume that the hold didn't have an impact on the route, but that's not the rule.

Thats why refs convene in their own huddle after a flag and can say, never mind pick up the flag

 

[Southerntakeover]

It's not so much that they have to repeat mistakes if they make them early. A referee might have a call that they immediately regret, and would call differently.

It's the calls within what you could call the margins. That is: the rules, applied strictly, would produce an unworkable product because there would be a flag on every single play. Within each game, the referees do, whether they would ever admit it or not, apply a particularly calibrated discretion as to what they will call, or not call, within the margins. It's not always the same across different games or weeks, which can be frustrating. They absolutely do not call every penalty that you could freeze frame and make a technical argument for, and that has never happened in any game ever.

In game, once you've worked out where the discretion lies, there is a manifest injustice in altering it, particularly late in the game when it has already been played within the confines of the discretion.

Do we really think that there were no holds yesterday? We know that's not correct, there was relatively clear PI on one of the replay reviews uncalled.

What we had was a game where the discretion was exercised for ninety nine percent of it to not call the ticky touchwood penalties. And then one was called that was outside the margins of the discretion.

Does the moment count there? It does, in my view, at least in so far as it's obviously unjust to alter the discretionary standard while a game is going on or to just call one. Referees need to endeavour to call the game as consistently as possible. That does not guarantee complete consistency, of course, but that is the task. You want to ensure that there is a set of rules being applied consistently amongst the two teams, such that the refereeing standards aren't determining the game.

I largely think that the commentaries about the time and the moment reflect a simple point: people do not want referees inserting themselves in the biggest game of the year unless it is absolutely necessary- i.e. the discretion should be set relatively high.

This is, I think, different to saying that a penalty occurred which a referee exercising a consistent discretion would have penalised but failed to - that's just an error, and if the genuine exercise of a consistent discretion leads to a flag next time so be it.

 

[Paul Kersey]

Good to see the play or two in the third that those of us watching on Gamepass missed is still missing on the replay. ******* useless.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

What we had was a game where the discretion was exercised for ninety nine percent of it to not call the ticky touchwood penalties. And then one was called that was outside the margins of the discretion.

Does the moment count there? It does, in my view, at least in so far as it's obviously unjust to alter the discretionary standard while a game is going on or to just call one.

I think this is where your argument falls down. How can it be ‘outside the margins of the discretion’ (OMD) when the defender himself said it was a clear penalty? How do you know there were not more obvious penalties missed that were further OMD for example at los where cameras/broadcasters miss a lot of the possible penalties?

 

[Southerntakeover]

I think this is where your argument falls down. How can it be ‘outside the margins of the discretion’ (OMD) when the defender himself said it was a clear penalty? How do you know there were not more obvious penalties missed that were further OMD for example at los where cameras/broadcasters miss a lot of the possible penalties?

The player said he held, he didnt say it should be called. I frankly don't think his desire to be honourable or whatever else adds insight.

People inside the industry currently are unlikely to say what needs to be said: we've had consecutive superbowls ended on penalties that should never have been thrown, and it's a ******* blight on the game.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I get it. We want the players to sort it out on the field. In a perfect world it would be nice.

Unfortunately it's pretty much not possible in a game with that struggles to work out what a catch is (as the answer begins with "it depends") and pretty much every decision that they make is a judgement call.

He's called the hold at the line of scrimmage, before the pass is made, so how will the ref then know if it's going to impact what happens next? Was he going to get open? Did the grab stop him from getting to his spot on the route? Did the QB decide against the throw as he's going through his progression and sees the defender locking him up?

It's easy go back and question it because the ball sails over the receiver, and then assume that the hold didn't have an impact on the route, but that's not the rule.

You make a good point about the flag thrown prior to the pass.

All I'll say is if the Jets lost a Superbowl in that fashion I would be absolutely ropeable as I'm sure most supporters would be if their team were on the end of it. Luckily for Philly they broke the drought a few years ago,; if they hadn't I think the response would be far worse from their fans than it has been to date.

 

[Southerntakeover]

I don't think the flag was called prior to the pass.

Wasn't it actually called significantly late, and after Mahomes began gesturing for it?

A behaviour which this board would have rightfully skewered Brady for.

 

[Big Unit 30]

64 yard punt return longest in Super Bowl history let's go Chiefs.

Nup wasn’t at all

 

[AJ_2000]

View attachment 1607194
Nup wasn’t at all

Kick off v Punt

 

[Elmer_Judd]

You make a good point about the flag thrown prior to the pass.

All I'll say is if the Jets lost a Superbowl in that fashion I would be absolutely ropeable as I'm sure most supporters would be if their team were on the end of it. Luckily for Philly they broke the drought a few years ago,; if they hadn't I think the response would be far worse from their fans than it has been to date.

Philly fans should be used to it, that's the 10th title decider/championship game or series the city of Brothely love has lost since 1983 (only won 2 titles since)

Collingdelphia ?

 

[Southerntakeover]

Philly fans should be used to it, that's the 10th title decider/championship game or series the city of Brothely love has lost since 1983 (only won 2 titles since)

Collingdelphia ?

Be pretty embarrassing to have lost one to Philly then, really

 

[Big Unit 30]

The call was soft, but it was there. Just hate seeing a game come down to that.

Precisely

 

[Broken]

What was wrong with the surface the play on all year round at State Farm stadium. Are they going to experiment next year in Vegas, they have the same setup

You'd think they'd take some lessons from this seasons game to make sure it doesn't happen again.

The NFL was so hyped in the leadup to this too :

Why on Earth was the Super Bowl turf so bad?

While the field at State Farm Stadium in Glendale, Arizona, was aesthetically pleasing, the quality of the turf left a lot to be desired.

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