Port and Hawthorn success comparison since 1997

[Taper]

Since Port joined the AFL in 1997.

Port
619 games
331 wins, 5 draws, 283 losses
Win percentage 53.88%
13 finals series
13 wins 16 losses in finals
8 top 4 home and away finishes
7 preliminary finals
2 grand finals
1 premiership

Hawthorn
621 games
329 wins, 5 draws, 287 losses
Win percentage 53.38%
12 finals series
19 wins 12 losses in finals
8 top 4 home and away finishes
7 preliminary finals
5 grand finals
4 premierships



It's amazing how Port and Hawthorn have remarkably similar records since Port joined the AFL, especially the fact they've both made 7 preliminary finals and had 8 top 4 home and away finishes.
You wouldn't think so given the differential in premierships and grand final appearances.
Just goes to show how important it is to take your chances when you get them.

Port really could be seen as a power club (no pun intended) if they had a better rate at converting top 4 home and away finishes and preliminary final appearances into premierships and grand final appearances.
Ken Hinkley's win percentage of 59.68% is slightly better than Alastair Clarkson's win percentage of 58.97% as Hawthorn coach too.

 

[HairyO]

Since Port joined the AFL in 1997.

Port
619 games
331 wins, 5 draws, 283 losses
Win percentage 53.88%
13 finals series
13 wins 16 losses in finals
8 top 4 home and away finishes
7 preliminary finals
2 grand finals
1 premiership

Hawthorn
621 games
329 wins, 5 draws, 287 losses
Win percentage 53.38%
12 finals series
19 wins 12 losses in finals
8 top 4 home and away finishes
7 preliminary finals
5 grand finals
4 premierships

View attachment 1814618

It's amazing how Port and Hawthorn have remarkably similar records since Port joined the AFL, especially the fact they've both made 7 preliminary finals and had 8 top 4 home and away finishes.
You wouldn't think so given the differential in premierships and grand final appearances.
Just goes to show how important it is to take your chances when you get them.

Port really could be seen as a power club (no pun intended) if they had a better rate at converting top 4 home and away finishes and preliminary final appearances into premierships and grand final appearances.
Ken Hinkley's win percentage of 59.68% is slightly better than Alastair Clarkson's win percentage of 58.97% as Hawthorn coach too.

Maybe win more flags. Then compare to Hawthorn.

 

[Clark G]

A quick summary is that Hawthorn have made the most of their time at the top, while Port have not.

 

[Back One Out]

Some teams are the home & away champs who choke in September

Other teams work their way slowly into the season and bring their best when it counts the most.

 

[PhatBoy]

Maybe win more flags. Then compare to Hawthorn.

Um, I think that is why the comparison is being made and is interesting

 

[HairyO]

Um, I think that is why the comparison is being made and is interesting

There isnt anything to compare.

Maybe look at Dogs vs Port. Probably a lot closer.

 

[PhatBoy]

There isnt anything to compare.

Maybe look at Dogs vs Port. Probably a lot closer.

So nothing should be compared to anything unless it’s nearly matching.

Interesting concept.

 

[HairyO]

So nothing should be compared to anything unless it’s nearly matching.

Interesting concept.

Yes.

Or we can compare Buddy with Caleb Daniels.

 

[PhatBoy]

Yes.

Or we can compare Buddy with Caleb Daniels.

Two teams with nearly identical records through 95 per cent of the season across a sample size of 27 seasons but one is far more successful than the other.

Now you are comparing two players of differing positions and skill levels, to a discussion about two AFL teams.

 

[Breretonisahood]

There are some club traits over many years that are hard to figure out why. Hawks have always been efficient flag winners without playing in lots of finals series. Port and also Collingwood the exact opposite and maybe even Geelong through the 60s to 90s, but Geelong turned it around. Dunno why. Maybe it’s “cultcha”.

 

[NetworkNerd]

Hawks are by far the best at making the most of their rare opportunities at the top. Only 3 ok eras since 1997
2000/2001 - SF and a prelim
2007/2008 - SF and a Flag
2011-2018 - 3 flags, 1GF, 1 prelim, 2 SF

 

[NetworkNerd]

Finals series since 1997 (27 seasons)

Sydney - 22
Geelong - 19
West Coast - 17
Collingwood - 15
Bulldogs - 14
Adelaide - 14
Brisbane - 13
Port - 13
Essendon - 13
Hawthorn - 12
North - 12
St Kilda - 11
Melbourne - 10
Richmond - 9
Carlton - 8
Fremantle - 8
GWS - 6
GC - 0

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Since Port joined the AFL in 1997.

Port
619 games
331 wins, 5 draws, 283 losses
Win percentage 53.88%
13 finals series
13 wins 16 losses in finals
8 top 4 home and away finishes
7 preliminary finals
2 grand finals
1 premiership

Hawthorn
621 games
329 wins, 5 draws, 287 losses
Win percentage 53.38%
12 finals series
19 wins 12 losses in finals
8 top 4 home and away finishes
7 preliminary finals
5 grand finals
4 premierships

View attachment 1814618

It's amazing how Port and Hawthorn have remarkably similar records since Port joined the AFL, especially the fact they've both made 7 preliminary finals and had 8 top 4 home and away finishes.
You wouldn't think so given the differential in premierships and grand final appearances.
Just goes to show how important it is to take your chances when you get them.

Port really could be seen as a power club (no pun intended) if they had a better rate at converting top 4 home and away finishes and preliminary final appearances into premierships and grand final appearances.
Ken Hinkley's win percentage of 59.68% is slightly better than Alastair Clarkson's win percentage of 58.97% as Hawthorn coach too.

It is a great post that really does demonstrate the importance of those 3 finals games every team has to win to win a Premiership. This is when players and teams almost forge their entire reputations in those 3 games, when the loaded gun is pointed straight at their head. Playing against the best teams in the biggest games with the highest stakes.

 

[vozzon]

Also worth looking at finishing positions and draft concessions as well. Port bottomed out at the worst possible time with GC and GWS draft concessions.

Port benefited when they entered the comp with player access and had its peak team from 2001-2004, but only had 1 GF appearance and win to show.

Hawks benefitted from the priority picks during there main rebuild which culminated in there success. Good drafting and recruiting helped massively.

To think port were within a kick in the 2014 prelim to at the MCG to the hawks. Missed so many chances as that game.

 

[lordbob]

Hawks benefitted from the priority picks during there main rebuild which culminated in there success. Good drafting and recruiting helped massively.

Its a bit rich saying the hawks premiership success was a result of priority picks.

2004 we got roughy -> buddy -> lewis

Buddy wasnt a great help winning half those flags (2014/2015)

pick 7 was for trading nathan thompson

2005 - we got xavier ellis -> beau dowler


If there were no priority pick system then we lose out on

lewis and baeu dowler.


If just hawthorn didnt get a priority pick then we lose

roughy and xavier ellis

In either scenario there is only 1 of the players that contributed to all 4 of our premierships.

Were they great players? sure. Is it such a significant addition that this 1 player undermines the achievement of the hawks premierships?

Id say our trading success had a much more significant impact on our premiership success than the priority picks.

 

[sobrave]

The ken Hinkley effect is massive

 

[NetworkNerd]

The ken Hinkley effect is massive

More coach of the year awards than Clarkson, Chris Scott and Damian Hardwick combined

 

[Taper]

There isnt anything to compare.

Maybe look at Dogs vs Port. Probably a lot closer.

Bulldogs win percentage is 50.56% since Port entered the competition.
Interestingly they've played in 14 finals series during that time, which is more than Port and Hawthorn despite their inferior win percentage.

 

[sobrave]

More coach of the year awards than Clarkson, Chris Scott and Damian Hardwick combined

A real mastermind. Did you know he's gotten port into the finals 6 out of 11 seasons? Truly an unparalleled level of success!

 

[SC_Power]

Since Port joined the AFL in 1997.

Port
619 games
331 wins, 5 draws, 283 losses
Win percentage 53.88%
13 finals series
13 wins 16 losses in finals
8 top 4 home and away finishes
7 preliminary finals
2 grand finals
1 premiership

Hawthorn
621 games
329 wins, 5 draws, 287 losses
Win percentage 53.38%
12 finals series
19 wins 12 losses in finals
8 top 4 home and away finishes
7 preliminary finals
5 grand finals
4 premierships

View attachment 1814618

It's amazing how Port and Hawthorn have remarkably similar records since Port joined the AFL, especially the fact they've both made 7 preliminary finals and had 8 top 4 home and away finishes.
You wouldn't think so given the differential in premierships and grand final appearances.
Just goes to show how important it is to take your chances when you get them.

Port really could be seen as a power club (no pun intended) if they had a better rate at converting top 4 home and away finishes and preliminary final appearances into premierships and grand final appearances.
Ken Hinkley's win percentage of 59.68% is slightly better than Alastair Clarkson's win percentage of 58.97% as Hawthorn coach too.

Only the premiership stat means anything.

So no comparison really.

 

[Roobs321]

I still remember their first clash. They were both in the 8 then but both missed finals (Hawks collapsed into 2nd last which drafted them Croad). Port were down by ten goals at halftime (their lowest ht total in season 1) and then gave the Hawks an almighty scare. It was also memorable for being Platten’s 250th, happened to be the last time he played in a win and got Brownlow votes, he was pretty good that day and had a memorable set shot and carry off. Port’s only loss to the Hawks at Waverley.

Here’s a Port-centric highlights vid I just found on YT (they did have a few good soccered goals)

 

[vozzon]

Its a bit rich saying the hawks premiership success was a result of priority picks.

2004 we got roughy -> buddy -> lewis

Buddy wasnt a great help winning half those flags (2014/2015)

pick 7 was for trading nathan thompson

2005 - we got xavier ellis -> beau dowler


If there were no priority pick system then we lose out on

lewis and baeu dowler.


If just hawthorn didnt get a priority pick then we lose

roughy and xavier ellis

In either scenario there is only 1 of the players that contributed to all 4 of our premierships.

Were they great players? sure. Is it such a significant addition that this 1 player undermines the achievement of the hawks premierships?

Id say our trading success had a much more significant impact on our premiership success than the priority picks.

From a list build perspective the priority pick helped but agree, buddy leaving for a fraction of his worth somehow made you better, with trading in of players was spot on most times, especially the Port trade of Shaun Burgoyne. No doubt your club was well run on all fronts from coaching to recruiting so not taking anything away from your success.

Roughead being from the priority pick draft, would be a massive loss if that doesn't happen. But most of the teams that received priority picks during that period all ended up competing at the top end once those players developed, so it wasnt just the hawks. It helped build those lists, which showed when Hawks, Dogs, Pies, Saints all were at the pointy end when those picks had time to mature (some teams did stuff it up like richmond and melbourne).

Port supporters want to knock ken, and to a point there correct, but as a club that that missed out on close prelims in 2014 and 2020, if the priority pick system was the same when Port rebuilding in our 2008-2012 and we got the 1-2 extra early picks instead of GC and GWS taking up most of the early picks, our list at those finals potentially can be better or had a chance to be. Other successful teams have had other help such as F/S picks or Academy picks which ultimately help the make up of the list. Compare the success of both clubs from the list building perspective.

I would take a roughead and ellis in both those 2014/2020 prelims. This list over the past decade when we had good years always felt 1-2 top players off compared to the top few teams.

 

[lordbob]

From a list build perspective the priority pick helped but agree, buddy leaving for a fraction of his worth somehow made you better, with trading in of players was spot on most times, especially the Port trade of Shaun Burgoyne. No doubt your club was well run on all fronts from coaching to recruiting so not taking anything away from your success.

Roughead being from the priority pick draft, would be a massive loss if that doesn't happen. But most of the teams that received priority picks during that period all ended up competing at the top end once those players developed, so it wasnt just the hawks. It helped build those lists, which showed when Hawks, Dogs, Pies, Saints all were at the pointy end when those picks had time to mature (some teams did stuff it up like richmond and melbourne).

Port supporters want to knock ken, and to a point there correct, but as a club that that missed out on close prelims in 2014 and 2020, if the priority pick system was the same when Port rebuilding in our 2008-2012 and we got the 1-2 extra early picks instead of GC and GWS taking up most of the early picks, our list at those finals potentially can be better or had a chance to be. Other successful teams have had other help such as F/S picks or Academy picks which ultimately help the make up of the list. Compare the success of both clubs from the list building perspective.

I would take a roughead and ellis in both those 2014/2020 prelims. This list over the past decade when we had good years always felt 1-2 top players off compared to the top few teams.

1-2 good players at their peak can definitely help you get to or win a grand final. I agree they definitely are a big help, but for a team to win 3 in a row, i dont think you can put that down to just 1 -2 players, especially when ellis didnt play in all 3 GFs. Roughy was definitely a key player though.

 

[Bevoman]

More coach of the year awards than Clarkson, Chris Scott and Damian Hardwick combined

The missing flags are when we chocked under Choco.
Where Treders was the best player in the comp, we finished top in multiple years but could not win a final until 2004.
A bit like Geelong waiting ten years under Scot, we should have won more than one flag twenty years ago.

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

Ports 1 flag is clean of draft assistance though isn't it?

Whereas all 4 Hawks flags are tainted by multiple priority picks. Welfare handout basterds, faaarkin relocate em!!