How has Collingwood managed to be so successful since 2001 while Carlton and Essendon have not?

[Elmer_Hauser]

Arguably the big 3 Vic clubs, 15, 16 and 16 VFL/AFL premierships with the biggest overall supporter bases in Vic, yet since the Bombers lost in 2001, neither Carlton or Essendon have played in a GF (and barely won any finals), while Collingwood have played in 5 grand finals (if we count 2010 as one) and always seem to be challenging, albeit still losing most GFs, at a frequency similar to Sydney, Hawthorn, Geelong and the Coasters.

I know Carlton has had it's struggles, as has Essendon, a lot related to club management, scandals etc, but how come the Pies keep challenging while these two other greats are in the doldrums? What changed since the 90s?

Only 1 more flag. Hardly successful lol

 

[freddy mercury]

Why 2001? Why not 2000?

 

[Pistol Night]

Only 1 more flag. Hardly successful lol

By never making the finals you cant lose GFs. Carlton nailing that successful template

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

By never making the finals you cant lose GFs. Carlton nailing that successful template

Be that as it may, only Premierships/winning grand finals should count as the definitive proof of tangible success ...

 

[Pistol Night]

Be that as it may, only Premierships/winning grand finals should count as the definitive proof of tangible success ...

Agree. But we consistently put ourselves in a position to lose our next GF. Thats all you ask

 

[My Tilly]

West coasts longest streak of not making finals is 3 years in a row of 2008-10 and this current 2021-23 streak. Eagles are likely to break that streak.

Collingwood has had their share of ups and downs. they did miss out on finals from 2014-17, then made a grand final in 2018.

I classify West Coast are a very successful football club despite those years spent bottom four.

Since 2001:
14th, 8th, 7th, 7th, 2nd (runners up), 1st (premiership), 3rd, 15th, 11th, 16th, 4th, 5th, 13th, 9th, 2nd, 6th, 8th, 2nd (premiership), 5th, 5th, 9th, 17th, 18th.

Just to put that it into perspective, take Fremantle for example:
16th, 13th, 5th, 9th, 10th, 3rd, 9th, 10th, 3rd, 11th, 14th, 14th, 6th, 11th, 7th, 3rd (runners up), 4th, 1st, 16th, 14th, 14th, 13th, 12th, 11th, 5th, 10th.



You can see a trend of consistency with West Coast. It's highly likely they are about to experience their worst drought in history. A similar progression to what Fremantle experienced between 2016-2021.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Agree. But we consistently put ourselves in a position to lose our next GF. Thats all you ask

Fair enough, although there comes a point where losing more 5 - 1 grand finals than winning them must make you physically ill as a supporter...

 

[Pistol Night]

Fair enough, although there comes a point where losing more 5 - 1 grand finals than winning them must make you physically ill as a supporter...

Mate, after 2018 im locking myself in a locked room and listening to Rick Astley on a loop if we make the GF this year

 

[WillHayward]

So from reading some of the comments from Blues fans on this thread I can understand why they are shit and they deserve another two decades of shitness. .

What a bunch of arrogant deluded flogs they are.

They still seem to be forever stuck in the 1980s.

They simply can't and won't adapt to the new national comp and professional environment.

Zero insight.

 

[Pistol Night]

So from reading some of the comments from Blues fans on this thread I can understand why they are s**t and they deserve another two decades of shitness. .

What a bunch of arrogant deluded flogs they are.

They still seem to be forever stuck in the 1980s.

They simply can't and won't adapt to the new national comp and professional environment.

Zero insight.

Brian Cook has made some interesting observations since hes been at Carlton about funding from the cash cow backers of both clubs

 

[master bate]

Love him or hate him Eddie McGuire somewhat modernised Collingwood by building them a league leading (at the time) facility and recruiting and backing in a strong coach in Malthouse and a good CEO in Greg Swann.

The Pies quickly moved towards the top in the pre footy cap days of footy spending and developed a very good recruiting and (at times) coaching team. Investing in Neale Balme for example to help manage Mick.

Whilst you'd hardly say they were the peak of all modern organisations they had the right mix of stability, investment and people to be ahead of the curve. Derek Hine recruiting. Some great fitness teams at times. Excellent development coaches have been through Collingwood in the last 20 years.

Essendon managed to fall backwards after the Sheedy years. Carlton have never got enough of the right people together at the right time. Too much focus on coaches. Not enough focus on head of footy making sure the coach is supporters, the recruiters are on board, the fitness staff are up to date and so on.

Richmond took forever but eventually got the right President, CEO and a good coach, nearly botched it all but got Balmey back as the glue guy and the rest is history.

 

[NetworkNerd]

I’m serious though. Carlton is on its knees and is remember the good old days of checks notes premierships won during WWI in 1914.

Living in La La land. Only premierships won after the formation of the AFL count anyway.

Works for me!

1990 or 1987?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Clubs who Collingwood have failed to beat in Grand Finals since I came into existence:

St Kilda (I was waiting to be born)

Carlton

North Melbourne

Carlton

Richmond

Carlton

Brisbane

Brisbane

St Kilda

Geelong

West Eagles or whatever they are called

3 Carlton

2 St Kilda! Brisbane

1 WAFL Eagles, North Melbourne, Geelong, Richmond


If you are a Blues fan it might cheer you up to know you sit on top of the ladder for Collingwood failing to beat you in Grand Finals in my lifetime.


Clubs Collingwood have managed to beat in a Grand Final since I came into existence:

1 Essendon

Bombers must have been on PRD's. Performance reducing drugs.

 

[Pistol Night]

Clubs who Collingwood have failed to beat in Grand Finals since I came into existence:

St Kilda (I was waiting to be born)

Carlton

North Melbourne

Carlton

Richmond

Carlton

Brisbane

Brisbane

St Kilda

Geelong

West Eagles or whatever they are called

3 Carlton

2 St Kilda! Brisbane

1 WAFL Eagles, North Melbourne, Geelong, Richmond


If you are a Blues fan it might cheer you up to know you sit on top of the ladder for Collingwood failing to beat you in Grand Finals in my lifetime.


Teams Collingwood have managed to beat in a Grand Final since I came into existence:

1 Essendon

Bombers must have been on PRD's. Performance reducing drugs.

Teams that Collingwood have beaten in a GF since i came in ya Mum:

None

 

[Xtreme]

Eddie McGuire deserves all of the credit

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Teams that Collingwood have beaten in a GF since i came in ya Mum:

None

Err yuk, that is disgusting PN.

It is not none, it is one.

 

[Pistol Night]

Err yuk, that is disgusting PN.

It is not none, it is one.

So we've established it was pre 1990. Go Pistol

 

[JyeDye]

So from reading some of the comments from Blues fans on this thread I can understand why they are s**t and they deserve another two decades of shitness. .

What a bunch of arrogant deluded flogs they are.

They still seem to be forever stuck in the 1980s.

They simply can't and won't adapt to the new national comp and professional environment.

Zero insight.

Weird melt

 

[raskolnikov]

Essendon have made the finals pretty regularly since 2001. We made the finals 01-04, 09,11,13 (excluded), 14, 17,19 and 21. We haven't managed to win one but it's not as if we've been bottom of the ladder all that time either.

 

[longdonkey]

2 of those clubs were caught cheating and the penalties for that cheating crippled them for at least a generation of playing talent.

The other club hasn't been caught.

 

[HairyO]

One flag in 22 years is successful. Cant wait for OP to write about Hawthorn, Geelong and Brisbane.

 

[Zephyr Effekt]

Correct. These are the true powerhouse clubs of the afl.

Having a premiership cup circle jerk pregame is a self report that you are not in fact a powerhouse.

Circle jerk...pfft.

We were just trolling St. Kilda.

 

[Pistol Night]

Circle jerk...pfft.

We were just trolling St. Kilda.

Could of just brought one each

 

[Zephyr Effekt]

Could of just brought one each

Not enough troll. Always go full troll.

 

[Pistol Night]

Not enough troll. Always go full troll.

Schoolgirls holding each cup with a burning dwarf in them