Review Port vs Brisbane QF @ The Gabba - It's OK Guys, Finals are a Bit Scary

[tribey]

I usually defend Rucci for his actual writing skill but that is just a terrible peice on all fronts.

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Port fans have generally done a pretty good job filling our ‘concrete and steel bowl’ for big games under lights.

Haven’t quite been rewarded with a Gabba/Kardinia Parkesque record though. In fact, far from it.

Weird… must be the fans’ fault.

 

[Harlott]

Ok - so where is the evidence that chopping and changing the coach equals success?

Longmire won a premiership in 2012 and hasn't won one since - 11 years.
Scott won one in 2011 and only won one again 11 years later

My point has always been this - there was a time to sack Hinkley, and it was 2019. There was every justification needed to do it then, and no complaints from anyone.

Since then though, If you were to split his tenure into 2020 onwards, he's actually done a decent job. We've finished 3rd,3rd, 11th and 3rd again. I can't recall any coach getting sacked in recent times when the team has finished top 4 in 3 out of 4 seasons, including 2x Prelims.

Depends how you look at it, doesn’t it. If you split it even further from round 4 to round whatever, 13 in a row, he’s actually done a decent job.
If you look at the big picture however…….
He’s the head coach, he needs to accept the responsibility for results which includes building the list. Cripps et all aren’t going to bring in players Hinkley doesn’t want. They’re not going to draft types Hinkley doesn’t want. He gets paid accordingly. Therefore he needs to cop the heat in the big boy job especially as it hasn’t delivered one miserly GF appearance.

 

[Cheesey Mac]

Ok - so where is the evidence that chopping and changing the coach equals success?

Longmire won a premiership in 2012 and hasn't won one since - 11 years.
Scott won one in 2011 and only won one again 11 years later

My point has always been this - there was a time to sack Hinkley, and it was 2019. There was every justification needed to do it then, and no complaints from anyone.

Since then though, If you were to split his tenure into 2020 onwards, he's actually done a decent job. We've finished 3rd,3rd, 11th and 3rd again. I can't recall any coach getting sacked in recent times when the team has finished top 4 in 3 out of 4 seasons, including 2x Prelims.

Longmire and Scott both have won premierships. Not to mention that they both made Grand Finals during the 11 years you've referenced.

If Ken had won it in 2014 then retaining him this long could at least be justified with "well, he's won a flag, he knows how to get there", but after 11 years without as much as a GF appearance I don't think you can really compare Ken's tenure to Longmire or Scott with a straight face and say they're in the same ballpark, because they aren't.

Only looking at the last 4 years in a vacuum and ignoring the bigger picture of his whole tenure is essentially what the club has done in extending his contract before the finals. If you cherry pick the years and stats then you can make any argument seem sensible, but his entire tenure tells the story, he's a loser and always has been.

 

[Doctor Feel]

View attachment 1800738

Port fans have generally done a pretty good job filling our ‘concrete and steel bowl’ for big games under lights.

Haven’t quite been rewarded with a Gabba/Kardinia Parkesque record though. In fact, far from it.

Weird… must be the fans’ fault.

Leaning into the 'scary' narrative there Rooch!

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Yes, that is true - we have been really poor and not ourselves in key games - I can't argue with that.

As for your question about Choco - 2007 GF rings a bell. There was a game in our 04 premiership year where we got smashed by 90 odd points. It happens to everyone.

Hinkley's issue has been the timing of the games.

I wasn't going to put Choco in there as I knew 2007 would be brought up but they were just too good. Geelong had 9 All-Australians and a 119 Peptides in that team. I don't really have an issue with that day apart from the loss. Sometimes a team is just so much better than the other in finals. You can say the same when Melbourne beat the Bulldogs. They were just on. But we are just as good as Brisbane this year and the Bulldogs in 2021. It is obviously a mental and heart issues which stems from Kenny and Kochhead.

But 11 years of mediocrity and poor games in finals is not just the timing but an inherent flaw in the coaching. In fact, saying Hinkley's issues are timing is just as much loser talk which I can only say must have been taken from the Gospel According to Ken.

 

[The Hobo]

I wasn't going to put Choco in there as I knew 2007 would be brought up but they were just too good. Geelong had 9 All-Australians and a 119 Peptides in that team. I don't really have an issue with that day apart from the loss. Sometimes a team is just so much better than the other in finals. You can say the same when Melbourne beat the Bulldogs. They were just on. But we are just as good as Brisbane this year and the Bulldogs in 2021. It is obviously a mental and heart issues which stems from Kenny and Kochhead.

But 11 years of mediocrity and poor games in finals is not just the timing but an inherent flaw in the coaching. In fact, saying Hinkley's issues are timing is just as much loser talk which I can only say must have been taken from the Gospel According to Ken.

Agree that Geelong were too good, but considering we finished 2nd that season, and had beaten them a few weeks earlier at their home deck, losing by 119 was not acceptable - our boys did not turn up.

I do agree with you that sometimes a team just clicks in finals, and I agree with the Melb/Dogs analogy - which is exactly what happened to us when we played the Dogs in a prelim a few years ago.

All the other prelims we have lost though have been less than a kick. It's not like we've been smashed in every final we've played, we've won some well, and mostly when we lose, it's been competitive.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Lord kicks his 4th goal, out marking Harris in the goal square, they cut to this scene on the bench and Holmes says Dylan Williams has come off and they are looking at his hamstring. The sub move has just been made. Clocked is stopped at 7.56 to go.


16pts down, got some momentum as were 22 pts down after DBJ snapped a goal and the clock stopped at 10.54 to go and he sprints runs off towards the boundary line. There is 40% of the 3rd quarter still to go after Lord's goal.





Mckenzie goes down with about 6 minutes left and we are still 16 pts down.






SPP misses his snap and at 5.34 left in the 3rd qtr, we are 15 pts down.







From the kick in, we don't touch it, McCarthy deep in their forwardline marks it on the boundary, goes back and takes his time and snaps it with less than 5 minutes to go and back out to 21 pts. That had nothing to do with injuries as neither McKenzie's or Williams' opponents were involved.







McCluggage with a beautiful low spearing pass to Daniher on the lead at 3.45 left, he marks takes his time goals from 30m out about 30 degree angle and when clock stops its 3.04 left, and its a 27 pt lead to Brisbane (14.5 v 9.8). If we had any small chance to win we had to stop Brisbane scoring again in the quarter.


2.05 to go Wines gets a push in the back free 51m out from goal out on about a 30 degree angle left hand side, and Houston and Burton are hanging around for the handball receive. Ollie is so self absorbed he doesn't even look at them for an option, runs around the man on the mark to the right and in his usual way gets under the ball and kicks it high and doesn't even make the top of the goal square line to the right side, so its about a 42m kick all up. Off the defenders hands SPP makes a snap, bounces in the goal square and Brisbane rush it through. None of this play had anything to do with having 2 injured on the bench.

1.21 to go and ball is kicked in and we are down 63 v 89.

Bergman takes a good mark on outer boundary line, bit to right of boundary umpire you see in photo below and does a beautiful centering kick to Burton who as you see in photo has marked and takes a step as he sees Duursma free at HF.





Burton does kick it a bit too high but Dopey Duursma is completely unaware of who is around him and doesn't protect the drop zone or make it hard for the oppo. Give away a free kick if you have to, to stop the play. Its a minute left to go.





19 year old Fletcher, youngest player on the ground reads it beautiful, marks, plays on, handballs to Cameron who pushed into defence so he is a long way from Burton, gets the handball received, and a long kick to Hipwood who is massive amount of space with our high press, marks, plays on, stops, doesn't know what to do, snaps, goals and the margin is 32 pts with 44 seconds to go. None of this had anything to do with having 2 injured players on the bench.

At Centre bounce, after the attempted tap by the two ruckmen, Drew gets an unlucky bounce, it bounces over his head to Neale who bombs it Daniher and Aliir wrestling, off hands, Daniher recovers best as Aliir isn't a great one on one player, and Daniher snaps and bounces it thru and 38 pt margin with 26 seconds to go. Once again that flukey bounce and Aliir losing a one on one to Daniher - his opponent all night, had nothing to do with 2 injuries.

The 2 injuries hurt us in the last quarter. No doubt about it, but they didn't hurt us for the last 40% of the 3rd quarter when they both happened within a minute of each other,

But if we had any chance to win, Ollie had to manufacture a goal with 2 minutes to go, not being so self absorbed and giving it off to Houston, or Farrell or Burton and letting them try and kick the goal.

If he did and one of them kicked the goal, then its 68 v 89 and then we just play boring shut down footy for 2 minutes and don't give them a sniff to get an extra goal. So then it would be 21 pts down at 3/4 time, and 2 injured players, away from home is a bloody big ask to win the game, but its a lot better odds than being 38 pts down and the oppo at home roar into the last quarter with massive momentum.

Don't let anyone convince you that it was all bad luck with injuries and bad goal kicking early that is the reason why we lost the game by so much. There was dumb decision making and poor strategy when we had the chance to stop them breaking the game open in the 3rd that cost us any chance. In the end the 2 injures meant a net 10 pts in the last quarter.

 

[The Hobo]

Longmire and Scott both have won premierships. Not to mention that they both made Grand Finals during the 11 years you've referenced.

If Ken had won it in 2014 then retaining him this long could at least be justified with "well, he's won a flag, he knows how to get there", but after 11 years without as much as a GF appearance I don't think you can really compare Ken's tenure to Longmire or Scott with a straight face and say they're in the same ballpark, because they aren't.

Only looking at the last 4 years in a vacuum and ignoring the bigger picture of his whole tenure is essentially what the club has done in extending his contract before the finals. If you cherry pick the years and stats then you can make any argument seem sensible, but his entire tenure tells the story, he's a loser and always has been.

Sure, but Ken has been a kick away from a GF 3 times now. The coach can only do so much - the fact we got close 3 times means his game plan stacks up in finals.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Agree that Geelong were too good, but considering we finished 2nd that season, and had beaten them a few weeks earlier at their home deck, losing by 119 was not acceptable - our boys did not turn up.

I do agree with you that sometimes a team just clicks in finals, and I agree with the Melb/Dogs analogy - which is exactly what happened to us when we played the Dogs in a prelim a few years ago.

All the other prelims we have lost though have been less than a kick. It's not like we've been smashed in every final we've played, we've won some well, and mostly when we lose, it's been competitive.

We turned up, but Geelong had 44 years of hurt to get rid of that day, and unlike other sides who won GFs by big margins in GFs they didn't switch off in the last quarter, they kept hammering us.


I've gotta a mate who hates Port, but is a pretty realistic and a good judge of footy and is prepared to give credit to Port and individual players when its due, and he said we could have been playing with machetes and still wouldn't have won. He said Geelong we just so switched on to win and make up for all those GF losses.

 

[Harlott]

Sure, but Ken has been a kick away from a GF 3 times now. The coach can only do so much - the fact we got close 3 times means his game plan stacks up in finals.

Twice you mean? The WB PF was a few more kicks away.
And the fact you say his game plan stacks up in finals when we haven’t reached a GF and after 11 years? You really can’t understand it’s time to give someone else a go?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Sure, but Ken has been a kick away from a GF 3 times now. The coach can only do so much - the fact we got close 3 times means his game plan stacks up in finals.

We haven't been close 3 times. Its been twice. We have been in 3 PFs.

The only time we were close in the 3rd one was when the umpire did the opening bounce.

In 2014 we lost by 3 pts but were 28 pts down with less than half the last quarter to go. We had a crazy late surge that gave us a big sniff, probably after the Hawks relaxed a bit and started thinking of next week.

2020 game against Richmond was the game we blew. It was a tight match all night in the farken rain, but we blew too many opportunities in the last quarter.

Edit 8.21 to go and hawks up by 28 pts.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Sure, but Ken has been a kick away from a GF 3 times now. The coach can only do so much - the fact we got close 3 times means his game plan stacks up in finals.

No it means the 3 coaches who beat him had game plans that stood up better in finals.

It is literally right there on the score board FSS.

Winning isn't subjective.

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[The Hobo]

Twice you mean? The WB PF was a few more kicks away.
And the fact you say his game plan stacks up in finals when we haven’t reached a GF and after 11 years? You really can’t understand it’s time to give someone else a go?

Yup my bad, twice - my point is that less than a kick twice suggests the game plan stacks up. Just takes one moment to go the other way for that to be a GF berth.
Either the umpire doesn't call Hartlett's handball as deliberate, or Rockcliff reaches out and gets a touch on it, or whoever the tiger was doesn't kick it from a tough angle.
Or Moore kicks the goal, or Ebert doesn't get his kick smothered etc.

We're talking individual moments in a game that the coach has no control over.


I'm not convinced that "giving someone else a go" is the answer - the fact of the matter is that GF's are hard to make, premierships are hard to win. Just changing the coach doesn't solve the problem. As I said, there was a time when he deserved to be sacked - that was in 2019. Since then, his results are good and not sack-worthy.

Tell me which other coach has been sacked after 2 out of 3 top 4 finishes translating to 2 out of 3 prelims? Potentially could make it 3 prelims in 4 years if we win on the weekend.

 

[The Hobo]

No it means the 3 coaches who beat him had game plans that stood up better in finals.

It is literally right there on the score board FSS.

Winning isn't subjective.

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Or their players handled the pressure better, or the players themselves were better, or a million other things.

Yes, winning isn't subjective, but the impact a coach has on the result, particularly when the game is that close, is highly subjective.

 

[Steve Dore]

...

Longmire won a premiership ....
Scott won one in 2011 and only won one again 11 years later

.....

Comparing Daddy Donuts who has never even made a Grand Final to coaches that have won flags?

That smoking hole in your foot appears to be self inflicted.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Sure, but Ken has been a kick away from a GF 3 times now. The coach can only do so much - the fact we got close 3 times means his game plan stacks up in finals.

Am I taking crazy pills? Why have multiple people assumed this post is serious? Its obviously a joke right?

 

[Harlott]

Yup my bad, twice - my point is that less than a kick twice suggests the game plan stacks up. Just takes one moment to go the other way for that to be a GF berth.
Either the umpire doesn't call Hartlett's handball as deliberate, or Rockcliff reaches out and gets a touch on it, or whoever the tiger was doesn't kick it from a tough angle.
Or Moore kicks the goal, or Ebert doesn't get his kick smothered etc.

We're talking individual moments in a game that the coach has no control over.


I'm not convinced that "giving someone else a go" is the answer - the fact of the matter is that GF's are hard to make, premierships are hard to win. Just changing the coach doesn't solve the problem. As I said, there was a time when he deserved to be sacked - that was in 2019. Since then, his results are good and not sack-worthy.

Tell me which other coach has been sacked after 2 out of 3 top 4 finishes translating to 2 out of 3 prelims? Potentially could make it 3 prelims in 4 years if we win on the weekend.

We can continue with Ken and get near enough and that would be your whole argument for keeping him.
It’s not ruthless enough. All those coaches that ended up on the winning side of those PF have won premierships some multiple.
They know you can’t rely on what if’s. They got the job done.

 

[Sheeds]

We can continue with Ken and get near enough and that would be your whole argument for keeping him.
It’s not ruthless enough. All those coaches that ended up on the winning side of those PF have won premierships some multiple.
They know you can’t rely on what if’s. They got the job done.

Surely if you are in your 11th season, have a below 50% record against top 8 teams in 9 of the last 10 years and have 2 final wins in 8 years that would suggest the game plan does not stack up when it counts....

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Tell me which other coach has been sacked after 2 out of 3 top 4 finishes translating to 2 out of 3 prelims? Potentially could make it 3 prelims in 4 years if we win on the weekend.

Tell me which other coach has been extended after 11 years without a grand final.

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[Monfries7]

Has anyone mentioned DBJ's 'bump' attempt in the third quarter? That act alone warranted the subbing - even if the injuries already occurred!

 

[Powerade 08]

Has anyone mentioned DBJ's 'bump' attempt in the third quarter? That act alone warranted the subbing - even if the injuries already occurred!

Is that the one where he missed the player? lol. When we were watching the game I remember saying "didn't that kent do the exact same thing against them in round 1?"

 

[Cheesey Mac]

Sure, but Ken has been a kick away from a GF 3 times now. The coach can only do so much - the fact we got close 3 times means his game plan stacks up in finals.

That's specious reasoning

 

[Handyandy]

Lord kicks his 4th goal, out marking Harris in the goal square, they cut to this scene on the bench and Holmes says Dylan Williams has come off and they are looking at his hamstring. The sub move has just been made. Clocked is stopped at 7.56 to go.


16pts down, got some momentum as were 22 pts down after DBJ snapped a goal and the clock stopped at 10.54 to go and he sprints runs off towards the boundary line. There is 40% of the 3rd quarter still to go after Lord's goal.


View attachment 1800775

 

[Handyandy]

Oops technical error,
That first photo in Russelleberthandballs post shows our entire leadership group on the bench in the third during the lions onslaught.
Boak, Jonas, Wines, Dbj plus weekend at mcentees
What’s that say?

 

[Handyandy]

Ghost of captains/ leaders past and present.
Bit eerie