Autopsy Positives and Negatives vs Geelong

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wce4premiership

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After watching the replay, I am unsure whether I preferred the Cats game or the Pies game, both were great for different reasons, both involved come backs of differing proportions. Thoughts on this game;

Shuey - BOG for me, better than Naitanui early when the cats were kicking everything, there was one play he ruined when he had Ryan in the clear on the wing then lost his footing, but everything he touched turned to gold outside of that. How many times does he seem to get a full length body diving smother? Would have to be the most for our team comfortably and that is going to lift team mates spirits to see. Very strong in the contest, fired out neat handballs in close to set others up and when he had time to deliver by foot it was better than anyone else in the team could possibly do.

Involved in the best plays time and time again, turns almost on a dime as he assesses his options and nobody can go with him to tackle him. Only normally gets run down in straight lines, when he is turning out of congestion he won't get caught. Lead the team for score involvements, had 3 centre clearances and 6 inside 50s with 2 goal assists and 3 running bounces which is rare to see these days with more sophisticated defences.

Hurn - Original viewing I thought he was trash, second viewing and I think he was ok without being great. Just that I expect so much more from him because he is that good. 4 intercept marks is good to see, it was his ground level stuff that was lacking and he looked less attacking with his kicks this week compared to last week, however Geelong did defend better than the Pies.

Duggan - Seemed like he was really going for the intercept mark when he was the third man in and his teammates had engaged the forward, good to see the confidence. I counted 3 intercept marks in the first half, and they were deep in defensive 50, not from setting up at half forward for repeat entries. For example 3:20 on the clock in the first half, which sets up Sheed's second goal. Duggan's pressure coming up and pressing is also a key contributor to the turnover at 2:25 in the last that leads to JK's goal. 2 HTB tackles and some really good runs, including a bounce, is gaining good territory recently.

Naitanui - His clearances where he gains 50m with a sort of snap kick going forward, although not clean, are awesome because of the 6-6-6 ruling meaning the ball will come to ground. Probably 2nd BOG for me behind Shuey and just ahead of Yeo, but they're all hard to split. 264 metres gained from 10 touches, 4 clearances and SEVEN of those 10 touches were inside 50s. Not the cleanest ball movement but the point is that he moves it, either by foot, body mass, or little tap ons to advantage, he just gets it rolling our way more often than not.

Kennedy - "Kennedy's the man!!" ... No he isn't, he is a bearded god! Seriously though, he's absolutely killed it in that last quarter. Had a pretty quiet game outside of that but was also being manhandled for little reward from the umpires. Had a very good attacking kick through the corridor earlier in the game as well.

Sheed - Had a really good tackle on Touhy early, fluffed some kicks though and looked super rushed all the time and a bit fumbly. Made some poor choices throughout the game but amongst that was some brilliant work in the stoppages as well. Field kicking seems a bit off in recent times, handballing still appears to be high quality and him and Gaff are going in for their tackles instead of corralling. If those two can keep it up, it shows they're buying in to the pressure mantra.

Sheed lead the game with 11 ground ball gets, most of the brilliant handballs except one that burnt Cripps and went out of bounds when we had an open look at goals. Love his efforts without the ball though, just would like to see some polish on his field kicks.

Darling - I love his ability to spoil the ball when out of position, there was one ball though he punched it and it bounced on its end and stayed in play, failed to kill the ball. Kicked a very high pressure set shot though and took a handful of contested grabs which is more like the Darling of old.

Kelly - 2nd quarter, 11:55 on the clock. That's what our other mids were missing. You see Shuey and Yeo sort of tap the ball below their knees until it bounces up to them, but Kelly just grabs the ball from outside his body line, getting lower and scooping it up cleanly.

Waterman - Some big plays down back, stopped Dangerfield on a run towards goal with a big tackle. To me it was his ball use that stood out. He has a stilted sort of awkward action when hitting up short leads, very rarely shows his ability to lower a kick and get it to the target faster but did so on a few occasions. One was a turnover, the other was a good kick through the corridor with 2:55 in the first half to go that sets up Sheed's goal, one of my favourite plays of the game.

Sheppard - Can't speak highly enough of this bloke. 6 spoils, 2 frees

Cole - Didn't see him much but when he was around the ball he made some massive tackles and won the ball back well. Him and Nelson got a lot less of the ball but then again the whole team got a lot less of the ball this round.

Yeo - Beast, underrated game there because he did it in tight and dirty. Surprised to see he "only had 5 tackles" ... watching it you would say he had double that number. 75% of his touches were contested, and by that it is hard to measure just how contested they really were. They were extremely contested and he bullied people around to get the ball. I still get bemused by opposition trying to take on Yeo as the tackler, he's a legitimate beast and if I was near him I'd be disposing of the ball very quickly!

Cripps - Say what you want about him but I liked his game. I think he is doing a mountain of work to cover for Cameron who is still not fit enough. Cameron is only playing 63% TOG here and Cripps is top 5 in tackles and pressure acts from both teams. The goal he kicked was brilliant and a difficult shot with the team needing the goal to go through to stay in it. Lacking some finishing touches but still trying hard.

Ryan - Could have been close to BOG with a bit more skill in open space. Was super dangerous one on one and when he was given a chance to win a ball on the ground he did it. Just those moments of overthinking let him down inside forward 50, and then again a few times when looking to pass inboard. Sometimes it is skill, sometimes it is choices, but he looked like the most dangerous forward and the one who would win us the game before JK stood up.

Cameron / Ainsworth / Ah Chee - Cameron needs fitness, no competition for spots means he probably keeps going which is fine. Kid can tackle. Ainsworth looks lost out there at times, he can run and get into good spots but team mates will be reluctant to use him due to his ball use so he may be doing a lot of decoy running, which has its place, but will probably be moved on if Redden is fit any time soon. Ah Chee looked like he was trying, but couldn't get the ball. Lead the game in sprints and repeat sprints but got little reward offensively.


Geelong's Play - They moved the ball better than anyone has since we have started to win games and it was a serious challenge. The team looks slow when they do it, but Geelong hit some very difficult kicks, not many teams will be able to sustain that disposal efficiency for the entire game, let alone as long as the Cats did. On top of this they also kicked 8 or 9 goals straight, 3 of those were very difficult shots.

They challenged us in a serious way and our guys stood up with high pressure kicks (Ryan, Cripps, JK, Darling) that would have been almost game over had they missed. Eventually the Cats started to make errors, Ratugolea in particular.
 

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Astro7

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Not defending Ainsworth or AhChee, but remember when people were calling for Duggan's head because he was a spud on field, or Nelson, or Hutchings, or Cole, or Jetta, or Redden, or Yeo, or Sheed, or JK, or Waterman, or Natanui, or Cripps, or Lecca, or Priddis, or Masten, or...my point is, the list is endless of spud players we wanted removed. Some of them prove to be genuine spuds, but most of them go on to be players of varying value.

Also, many punters complain about not giving young players a go, and when they do get a try out in the AFL, the same punters complain that they're not up to speed, are no good and should be dropped?

Cameron is a good example of how tough it is to return to AFL speed and fit in, let alone be a young player tasting it for the first time like Ainsworth? (okay, he's had a few shots at it, but who hasn't in their early days)(remember everyone calling for Sheed's head the same season he won the GF off his own boot?)

Ainsworth may not be around for much longer due to our returns/ins..but it has been invaluable experience for him and has added value to the clubs depth-whether or not he becomes a decent player or not is another thing.

There are some players who just look like they belong straight away (Oscar) or possibly Harry Edwards, but others for various reasons take longer to slot in...then others are criticised their whole careers (Masten, Priddis). Only a few weeks ago everyone was screaming for JK to retire and let someone else have a go...now he's the New Messiah? (again).

We're a fickle bunch...
 
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Royals

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Captain Obvious here
but Ainsworth game day thought processes and disposal is substandard .... and no i don't give a fu** about how fit his is

regulars come back back Gov and Redden if fit ... or lets try Xavier if Redden not right
as for Harry 200cm of potential beast keep persisting if we are short at back.
 

wce4premiership

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I like Ah Chee, again this game in the last quarter he came into a ground ball at full speed, turned his body sideways and just cleared a path.

No possession, but dangerous for the opposition to get in his way.

I don't hate Ainsworth at all, I feel sorry for the kid and will normally defend him. Just looks a bit weak (like Nelson in his early years) but if the coaches keep picking him I hope he can get involved a bit more.
 

Kwality

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I don't know where to start.

The value of touches from Shuey and Naitanui was way beyond the pure number that each had.

Duggan with 8 intercept possessions, used it well and tackled hard. Always switched on and saved us with a few big plays there.

Sheed was the best and worst of the team in display.

Yeo was in beast mode, so strong in getting the ball out and clever.

Ryan had a great game in the way he set up and attacked, but his finishing wasn't as good as I expect from him.

JK and Darling kicking clutch goals, both taking multiple contested marks for the game as well.


Negatives;

Ainsworth - Sorry mate, but you couldn't do the basics tonight and it stood out under the pressure.

Cameron - Laid a good tackle or two, but was garbage outside of that. Coudln't get into the game and when he had it he made poor choices.

Injury - Feel bad for Edwards, was looking forward to his game.
We have to bring young guys through & that sometimes ..... dont succeed & its rarely one game.
 

flamingEMBERS

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Ainsworth has no confidence in his kick, the other 21 don’t have confidence in his kick. Players are now over looking him even when he’s the right option.

Seems a popular player amongst teammates but yeah nah never in the team again thanks.
 

FKASC

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I don't understand these arguments. Do people expect our drafting team to nail 100% of the picks and all other drafting teams to make the mistakes for us?

Yes, Ainsworth is a disappointing option if he's the next best mid we have, but I've never understood the "we could have had X" argument. Every club passes on most players every year. Some of those players turn out good.

Why not go through and see everyone taken after Ainsworth that's been a complete non event thus far and go gee good thing we took Ainsworth over that guy. Nobody ever would, cause it's a really weird thing to do, but it's no different to going back and looking at everyone we 'missed'.

The further down the draft you go the more speculative it is, so be it.
What argument are you referring to?

A lot of people here specifically wanted us to take Worpel or Constable with one of our picks in the lead up to that draft, myself included, and were disappointed we didn’t taken them. Both also pretty highly rated in the media all year that year, granted all victorian kids tend to get overrated in the media.

I’m not just cherry picking him because he’s done well and was taken after our pick. He was an obvious choice if we wanted a contested mid and didn’t care too much about kicking skills (presumably the thought process with Ainsworth). Clearly the recruiters didn’t rate him but that doesn’t mean we can’t compare them.

You like to take the piss out of Freo for taking Pitt instead of Darling, yet not allowed to compare anyone taken after one of our picks, because some taken later haven’t turned out. smh
 

random260

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Ryan needs to spend less time hitting trick shots at training and more time practicing kicking goals under pressure. His finishing skills are woeful, should be kicking bags regularly but instead he ends up with score lines like 1.3
Ryan WAFL goal kicking wasn't the best either. During his year where he kicked the most goals he still had a conversion rate of like 50%. He would kick 3 goals 3.

But I'm wondering why don't they kick it to him 1 on 1. Like isolate him? I understand the need to bomb it to JK and Darling but I don't see why we don't do it to Ryan 1 on 1. He seems to have the 1 on 1 abilities like Lecras. Also does anyone know if Ryan was good 1 on 1 on WAFL? If he was then use it.
 

wce4premiership

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Ryan WAFL goal kicking wasn't the best either. During his year where he kicked the most goals he still had a conversion rate of like 50%. He would kick 3 goals 3.

But I'm wondering why don't they kick it to him 1 on 1. Like isolate him? I understand the need to bomb it to JK and Darling but I don't see why we don't do it to Ryan 1 on 1. He seems to have the 1 on 1 abilities like Lecras. Also does anyone know if Ryan was good 1 on 1 on WAFL? If he was then use it.
I think they need to put it in space for him over the back, he will overtake 9 out of 10 defenders, or he will create so much panic that something good will happen. It is just a few field kicks the past few weeks have either been the wrong option, or the right choice but poorly executed and dropping short.

A lot to like though the way he is going at ground level and contesting the ball in the air.
 

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HoneyBadger35

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What argument are you referring to?

A lot of people here specifically wanted us to take Worpel or Constable with one of our picks in the lead up to that draft, myself included, and were disappointed we didn’t taken them. Both also pretty highly rated in the media all year that year, granted all victorian kids tend to get overrated in the media.

I’m not just cherry picking him because he’s done well and was taken after our pick. He was an obvious choice if we wanted a contested mid and didn’t care too much about kicking skills (presumably the thought process with Ainsworth). Clearly the recruiters didn’t rate him but that doesn’t mean we can’t compare them.

You like to take the piss out of Freo for taking Pitt instead of Darling, yet not allowed to compare anyone taken after one of our picks, because some taken later haven’t turned out. smh
Sure, you wanted Worpel or Constable. But did you want Allen at 21? Ryan at 26? Every time one of them has a good game do you come on here and jerk off the recruiting team, or do you say god isn't Oscar Allen good?

Like yeah, we hit some and we miss some. Ainsworth looks for sure like a miss. There were better players around him at the time by the consensus, certainly ones that were more popular here. But everyone wants different players at every spot every year - how rigorously do you defend your preference of Player X over Ryan, or Player Y over Allen, or Player Z over Sheed, or whatever etc etc.

Players who star are stars. Players who don't star are proof that the recruiting staff don't know what they're doing.

There's some hits, there's some misses. It's all good. We're not going to be able to vacuum up all the talent in football. Our list is in an incredible spot so I don't understand the value in bemoaning that we didn't nail our fourth pick of the 2017 AFL Draft.

And re: Darling/Pitt. I make fun of that because if Worpel was obvious over Ainsworth, there's not a word to describe how painfully obvious Darling over Pitt was. I make fun of Darling over Pitt because it was the latest in a long line of shocking drafting decisions by a side that has existed on high draft picks and failed to turn nearly enough of them into footballers. When the Eagles list is in the shitheap and we've burned draft asset after draft asset for no return, I will slam our recruiting team. But when it's in the strongest place it has possibly ever been, it's seems like a nitpicking waste of energy.
 

Gwaihir

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Ryan WAFL goal kicking wasn't the best either. During his year where he kicked the most goals he still had a conversion rate of like 50%. He would kick 3 goals 3.

But I'm wondering why don't they kick it to him 1 on 1. Like isolate him? I understand the need to bomb it to JK and Darling but I don't see why we don't do it to Ryan 1 on 1. He seems to have the 1 on 1 abilities like Lecras. Also does anyone know if Ryan was good 1 on 1 on WAFL? If he was then use it.
I think it is simply that we have two plus quality tall forwards and a rounded forward line where Ryan has a role. Its a good question though. I could see him doing a Jarman in a finals series or a key game, so we should start giving him half a quarter here n there, one out in the F50. He would be a headache, too fast for talls and too big a leap for smalls.
 

Jiggyman

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2nd quarter extras, few good defensive efforts when we were under the pump:

Shep & Cole combine
Cole1.gif


Composure from youngsters in defense
Defense1.gif


Duggan intercepts
Duggan1.gif


Dom sharks it and releases Shuey
Dom1.gif


Dom dishes it to Kelly, JK juggles it over the line
DomKelly1.gif


Kelly pick-up
Kelly1.gif


Kelly gets out of a tackle
Kelly2.gif


Shep tackle
Shep1.gif


3rd quarter tomorrow!
 

Dark Sharks

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Let's be clear, it's not Ainsworth vs every player in the 2017 draft taken after him.

It's Ainsworth vs exclusively the 2 clear as day midfield options we reached and chose him over.


There were 2 very obvious midfielders we would have been thrilled to get. Going into 2018 with the retirement of Priddis and Mitchell our midfield stocks looked dire and Worpel was a midfield leader in the making, captain of Vic Countries side. Explosive inside/outside.

Meanwhile Constable had BBIBWBLF written all over him. With Priddis gone we were chasing a big bodied midfield extractor and he ticked that box perfectly with his clean hands at stoppages and big frame. Many wanted us to select him with our FIRST pick, let alone our FOURTH.


3 years later, both of those 2 look like they have a promising future in the AFL, whilst the other does not. It's not "Ainsworth bashing", he didn't ask to be selected as high as he did, it's just the way it is.


I'll congratulate our team on the selection of Allen, but let's be honest here, it was a pretty obvious choice as he was highly rated, from WA and surprisingly still available. It's not like we plucked a gem out of nowhere by having all the other clubs pass on him. It's like Darling all over again.

Ryan, our recruiters paid a premium for after failing to act 12 months earlier. Do you call that a win? Probably, considering he's still a good pick 26, but once again i'm not going to go full circle jerk over that selection after remembering Gorter.



Like you said HB, you win some you lose some. In the Ainsworth case, it looks like we've well and truly missed an opportunity.

You can't revel in the Allen selection like we all do, and not be able to also acknowledge what could have been if we used pick 32 on one of those mids instead.




Poor old Brander is copping just as much heat as Brayden, and he's a developing tall. That's probably only going to get worse on here as well :(
 

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