Autopsy Post 2021 Grand Final Western Bulldogs game review, the good the bad and the ugly, come talk about it here!

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ExRoyboy

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I have re watched the game up until the point where gave up in the last quarter 3 times now and a number of things are much clearer.

Firstly, we dominated the game for maybe 1 quarter and a bit overall in terms of game time. I would say the second quarter and partway through the third. Other than that, Melbourne dominated the first and last quarters, it was a bit of an arm wrestle in the first part of the third quarter but we just took our chances and Melbourne didn’t. In terms of the second half of the third quarter I would say it was an arm wrestle again with some key things going Melbourne’s way which helped to shift the momentum and then they took full advantage of our ill disciplined centre square set ups to score about 5 easy goals which completely swung the game their way and from which we never recovered.

Overall though, even before the massive momentum swing I do think that Melbourne had played the better football and we were in front more due to some individual bits of brilliance by Bont, Treloar, JJ and the steadying play of Caleb Daniel. Roarke Smith and Hunter also had their moments and were relatively composed, but that’s about it. Libba and Duryea were working hard as well. Nearly everyone else was fumbling and making tonnes of uncharacteristic errors. Whereas in general Melbourne even though they were behind, the game was being played more on their terms, they weren’t making as many mistakes and they probably didn’t make as much of their opportunities as we did up to that point.

One other thing is very clear though for those of us who watch a lot of Bulldogs games. That is that the second quarter and the first part of the third, where we controlled the game more, definitely looked like more of a Bulldogs type of game that we win. It was being played more our way. When Bont kicked his third that was the culmination of that period of dominance and we were 19 points clear. The next major point came when we won another contest going forward and Hannan got that free kick. We were really on top at this stage and needed to keep hammering our advantage and keep the momentum. That terrible decision to hand pass behind Bailey Dale and the subsequent turnover and stoppage let Melbourne off the hook. Momentum is a huge thing in football. Up until then we had made the most of our time with the momentum. But in the next minute we gave it back to them with a number of fumbles again (other than a couple of players this was a trend all game even when we were on top, however other than in the first quarter we hadn’t been punished for it).

From then on Melbourne punished us constantly with the most dominant display of football I’ve seen in years. But we handed them the opportunity to do that with stupid turnovers, stupid centre bounce set up, terrible defence and the Bont also being on the bench at that crucial time. We handed them the momentum when we had the game in our grasp.

Full credit to Melbourne, they were clearly the better team and thoroughly deserved their win. We can’t survive when so many players are not playing clean, similar to Port when they played us in the Prelim. But we definitely had the game for the taking. If Hannan kicks long and we can convert that into another goal to keep the momentum who knows what happens. Maybe Bont comes off and Melbourne runs three goals out of the centre again anyway and the momentum shifts again anyway, but we made so many stupid decisions and fumbles that gave it back to them.

So so disappointing. But overall, even when we had control, Melbourne were much cleaner and always looked more dangerous, we just had more pressure for a quarter and a bit and made the most of it and had some players exerting their brilliance at key times. The game didn’t really look like how we would like it to look for long periods, and we were not very composed with the ball. Meaning we were probably lucky to be 19 points up.

Still so shitty though that we lost the way we did.
 
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Doggy

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I have re watched the game up until the point where gave up in the last quarter 3 times now and a number of things are much clearer.

Firstly, we dominated the game for maybe 1 quarter overall in terms of game time. I would say from about halfway through the second till halfway through the third. Other than that, Melbourne dominated the first and last quarters, it was a bit of an arm wrestle in the first part of the second quarter but we just took our chances and Melbourne didn’t. In terms of the second half of the third quarter I would say it was an arm wrestle again with some key things going Melbourne’s way which helped to shift the momentum and then they took full advantage of our ill disciplined centre square set ups to score about 5 easy goals which completely swung the game their way and from which we never recovered.

Overall though, even before the massive momentum swing I do think that Melbourne had played the better football and we were in front more due to some individual bits of brilliance by Bont, Treloar, JJ and the steadying play of Caleb Daniel. Roarke Smith and Hunter also had their moments and were relatively composed, but that’s about it. Libba and Duryea were working hard as well. Nearly everyone else was fumbling and making tonnes of uncharacteristic errors. Whereas in general Melbourne even though they were behind, the game was being played more on their terms, they weren’t making as many mistakes and they probably didn’t make as much of their opportunities as we did up to that point.

One other thing is very clear though for those of us who watch a lot of Bulldogs games. That is that the second half of the second quarter and the first half of the third, where we controlled the game more, definitely looked like more of a Bulldogs type of game that we win. It was being played more our way. When Bont kicked his third that was the culmination of that period of dominance and we were 19 points clear. The next major point came when we won another contest going forward and Hannan got that free kick. We were really on top at this stage and needed to keep hammering our advantage and keep the momentum. That terrible decision to hand pass behind Bailey Dale and the subsequent turnover and stoppage let Melbourne off the hook. Momentum is a huge thing in football. Up until then we had made the most of our time with the momentum. But in the next minute we gave it back to them with a number of fumbles again (other than a couple of players this was a trend all game even when we were on top, however other than in the first quarter we hadn’t been punished for it).

From then on Melbourne punished us constantly with the most dominant display of football I’ve seen in years. But we handed them the opportunity to do that with stupid turnovers, stupid centre bounce set up, terrible defence and the Bont also being on the bench at that crucial time. We handed them the momentum when we had the game in our grasp.

Full credit to Melbourne, they were clearly the better team and thoroughly deserved their win. We can’t survive when so many players are not playing clean, similar to Port when they played us in the Prelim. But we definitely had the game for the taking. If Hannan kicks long and we can convert that into another goal to keep the momentum who knows what happens. Maybe Bont comes off and Melbourne runs three goals out of the centre again anyway and the momentum shifts again anyway, but we made so many stupid decisions and fumbles that gave it back to them.

So so disappointing. But overall, even when we had control, Melbourne were much cleaner and always looked more dangerous, we just had more pressure for about a quarter and made the most of it and had some players exerting their brilliance at key times. The game didn’t really look like how we would like it to look for long periods. Meaning we were probably lucky to be 19 points up.

Still so shitty though that we lost the way we did.
Don't agree. We belted them for a quarter and a half. They scored one goal that entire time

Then we should have been 25 up and nearly out of sight. Not sure they come back from there despite the margin

They were the better team clearly for the rest of the game but they were bloody lucky and they sure as hell aren't a 12 goal better side
 

ExRoyboy

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Don't agree. We belted them for a quarter and a half. They scored one goal that entire time

Then we should have been 25 up and nearly out of sight. Not sure they come back from there despite the margin

They were the better team clearly for the rest of the game but they were bloody lucky and they sure as hell aren't a 12 goal better side
I agree they definitely aren’t a 12 goal better side, but what I’m saying is we didn’t play anywhere near at our best other than for one quarter. And even in the part where we did play well we were still making tonnes of errors and fumbles. Yes they didn’t score a goal over that period and as I said we had the momentum and the game being played our way over that time but honestly we still were not as clean as an overall team and defensively we still looked shaky in my view. Keath, Cordy, Wood, Williams all looked off their game if you ask me.

I don’t think it was a full quarter and a half of dominance. Melbourne didn’t take their chances as much as we did, and even then we still missed some we should have made and would normally make like the Bailey Williams poster. But we still didn’t look as clean and composed as a whole team as Melbourne did.

Anyway, it’s just my view after watching the replay 3 times now. I still agree that because we had such momentum during the third and had the game on our terms 19 points up that it could have easily kept going and we could have been 5 goals up at 3 quarter time instead of 4 goals down. Then who knows what happens. But we handed them the momentum and didn’t defend well enough in the centre or outside.
 

LondonBulldog

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Don't agree. We belted them for a quarter and a half. They scored one goal that entire time

Then we should have been 25 up and nearly out of sight. Not sure they come back from there despite the margin

They were the better team clearly for the rest of the game but they were bloody lucky and they sure as hell aren't a 12 goal better side
Really...I'm disappointed we didn't fight it out, yet even if we had the lead at 3 quarter time, I don't think there was any stopping the Dees this year. They have been coming over the top in all there games. I agree it would have been closer but momentum was with them this year, just like it was with us in 2016.

Next year is a different story, make top 4, give ourselves the easier run and its our turn.
 

Doggy

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Really...I'm disappointed we didn't fight it out, yet even if we had the lead at 3 quarter time, I don't think there was any stopping the Dees this year. They have been coming over the top in all there games. I agree it would have been closer but momentum was with them this year, just like it was with us in 2016.

Next year is a different story, make top 4, give ourselves the easier run and its our turn.
I wouldn't say that at all.

Anything could have happened if we were 4 or 5 goals up. And we should have been 4 goals up.

Even some Melbourne supporters and media have conceded 4 or 5 goals might have broken them. We had all the momentum and just stopped.
 

Here we go dogs

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Really...I'm disappointed we didn't fight it out, yet even if we had the lead at 3 quarter time, I don't think there was any stopping the Dees this year. They have been coming over the top in all there games. I agree it would have been closer but momentum was with them this year, just like it was with us in 2016.

Next year is a different story, make top 4, give ourselves the easier run and its our turn.
Even if we were only a goal down in that last quarter, we were a shout.

Being 4 goals down, we had to roll the dice and win the game, in doing so we got the first 1 or 2 kicked against us and dropped our heads.
 

Doggy

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I refuse to believe had we extended our lead to beyond four goals, it would have been a bridge too far for Melbourne.

I am 99% sure the result would have been the same, but it would have been a more heartbreaking loss given now we let a 25 point lead slip instead of a 19 point lead.
Far too simplistic to say they would have kicked most of the same score on us and we would have lost by around the same.

It's a completely different ball game.

Melbourne was getting desperate .. see for example Max Gawn's flop where Caleb, the smallest man in the afl was able to just throw him
 

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Melbourne could of been up by more at quarter time remember.

What happened happened.

They weren’t good enough to get that next goal.

Don’t do it to yourselves.
 

MrChristo

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Hannan made a couple of poor decisions in that 'crucial' period. (Not trying to suggest it changes the result...)

But he also got the ball over the back near the boundary about 60m from goal and chooses not to handball to Weightman who streams passed on the inside.
From memory, he gets tackled and/or fumbles the ball oob.

Edit: He definitely wasn't the only 'fumbler' or poor decision maker that evening!
 

Lindsay_Gilbee

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You can pull your hair out rethinking it, I reckon the reality is a team played the best 35 minutes of footy I’ve ever seen. With 6-6-6 I don’t reckon anyone was stopping that Melb run.
 

Optimistic Dog

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Why we hit the wall

The Dees were much fitter and they proved it against all teams.
The Dees were the best and most complete team.
Both these had a influence on the blow out. However I would like to hear from a sports psychologist on what happens when the mental limit is researched. We obviously took at mental hit losing the last 3 and missing the double chance. We were able to lift in the second half against the bombers. We summoned all our mental effort to get over the line against the lines. The high continued against Port plus we had advantage in ability and put them to the sword. We were off mentally early against the Dees but were able to summoned another final effort for a quarter and half. Combined with all the travel that was it when the fitter and more talented Dees challenged again. Hence the absolute blowout.
 

threenewpadlocks

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I refuse to believe had we extended our lead to beyond four goals, it would have been a bridge too far for Melbourne.

I am 99% sure the result would have been the same, but it would have been a more heartbreaking loss given now we let a 25 point lead slip instead of a 19 point lead.
Far too simplistic to say they would have kicked most of the same score on us and we would have lost by around the same.

It's a completely different ball game.

Melbourne was getting desperate .. see for example Max Gawn's flop where Caleb, the smallest man in the afl was able to just throw him
It's all butterfly and chaos theory isn't it? That they might have tried different tactical things if we were up earlier.

I mean, I firmly believe the margin was so great, and that what we understand about dividing football between luck and not luck ... is that there isn't a circumstance in which the game would have played out differently that would have saw us win given it was a 70 point game, other than maybe saying something like "it was lucky for Melbourne that they had the 99.9% chance that they didn't have four players injured in-game and were left with one on the bench" (and the same is equally true for us).

It's also worth noting that if we're talking about luck (goalkicking accuracy), we were certainly the luckier team. Either of Treloar's snaps could have easily been smothered or touched. Melbourne missed a couple of easy shots. They counter-balanced it by kicking accurately from their dominant period onward, but we very easily could have been down by 30 or 40 points early in the game, and the counterfactual is that we could have struggled to come back in the way that we did.
 

stefoid

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Far too simplistic to say they would have kicked most of the same score on us and we would have lost by around the same.

It's a completely different ball game.

Melbourne was getting desperate .. see for example Max Gawn's flop where Caleb, the smallest man in the afl was able to just throw him


yeah, gawn threw himself on the ground and managed to hit his own head, then begs for a free.

not his finest hour.
 

Doggy

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It's all butterfly and chaos theory isn't it? That they might have tried different tactical things if we were up earlier.

I mean, I firmly believe the margin was so great, and that what we understand about dividing football between luck and not luck ... is that there isn't a circumstance in which the game would have played out differently that would have saw us win given it was a 70 point game, other than maybe saying something like "it was lucky for Melbourne that they had the 99.9% chance that they didn't have four players injured in-game and were left with one on the bench" (and the same is equally true for us).

It's also worth noting that if we're talking about luck (goalkicking accuracy), we were certainly the luckier team. Either of Treloar's snaps could have easily been smothered or touched. Melbourne missed a couple of easy shots. They counter-balanced it by kicking accurately from their dominant period onward, but we very easily could have been down by 30 or 40 points early in the game, and the counterfactual is that we could have struggled to come back in the way that we did.
Right

except bad kicking is bad football. They missed, we didn’t. Not sure why we are making excuses for the opposition.

whichever way you want to look at it we had a lot of momentum from a decent period of dominance and blew a few chances to extend that lead to a decent margin

to categorically say that just because of the final margin, a lot of it piled on when we clearly gave up, it wouldn’t have made a difference is rubbish. It might have and might not have.

But to categorically rule out that Melbourne players might have dropped their heads a ridiculous. I don’t buy that it was their time and no matter what we did they were destined to win either as that is also ridiculous. Under such argument, must be the saints turn next year because they are desperate to break their drought
 
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rhaz

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Edit: deleting my post, apologies - thought I had a Dees thread open that was discussing round 1 openonents and was replying to that!
 
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threenewpadlocks

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Right

except bad kicking is bad football. They missed, we didn’t. Not sure why we are making excuses for the opposition.

whichever way you want to look at it we had a lot of momentum from a decent period of dominance and blew a few chances to extend that lead to a decent margin

to categorically say that just because of the final margin, a lot of it piled on when we clearly gave up, it wouldn’t have made a difference is rubbish. It might have and might not have.

But to categorical rule out that Melbourne players might have dropped their heads a ridiculous. I don’t buy that it was their time and no matter what we did they we43 destined to win either as that is also ridiculous. Under such argument, must be the saints turn next year because they are desperate to break their drought
I mean, the idea that (for example) Treloar's snaps, that were awfully close to some outstretched hands, but weren't touched, isn't a product of some luck makes this conversation a bit pointless. He possesses the ball a bit differently, takes a bit longer to get on his boot and it gets touched before a goal.

I think everyone would agree, for example, the bounce of a ball on the ground, or the receiving of a handball from a teammate has some element of variation and randomness - doesn't apply to us here, bit pointless to make it a discussion point if you don't believe that. Treloar didn't really have any control over a lot of how he kicked his goal except "I have to try and kick this goal given I have somewhat of an unobstructed shot and I'm near goals", and you wouldn't blame him for taking the shot even if it was touched by the opposition.
 

Doggy

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I mean, the idea that (for example) Treloar's snaps, that were awfully close to some outstretched hands, but weren't touched, isn't a product of some luck makes this conversation a bit pointless. He possesses the ball a bit differently, takes a bit longer to get on his boot and it gets touched before a goal.

I think everyone would agree, for example, the bounce of a ball on the ground, or the receiving of a handball from a teammate has some element of variation and randomness - doesn't apply to us here, bit pointless to make it a discussion point if you don't believe that. Treloar didn't really have any control over a lot of how he kicked his goal except "I have to try and kick this goal given I have somewhat of an unobstructed shot and I'm near goals", and you wouldn't blame him for taking the shot even if it was touched by the opposition.
By that token any snap can be seen the same way. I don't see the point, seems silly
 

X_box_X

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I had a dream last night that a huge AFL story emerged that a drug analysis of Bailey Fritsch post Grand Final came up as an 'undetermined substance'.

The dream took a weird turn when there were reports suggesting that if the results showed a positive result for a PED, then the Dees would be stripped of their 1964 premiership.

An even weirder turn is the drug analysis ended up showing that Fritsch instead came up positive for Covid19.

Just when I thought the dream couldn't get any stranger, Max Gawn was a Pharmacist who was handing out Covid19 tablets (as a replacement of premiership medallions) to his teammates as they entered the dais. The Covid19 tablets wouldn't cure you from the disease, but rather give you the disease.
 

LondonBulldog

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Right

except bad kicking is bad football. They missed, we didn’t. Not sure why we are making excuses for the opposition.

whichever way you want to look at it we had a lot of momentum from a decent period of dominance and blew a few chances to extend that lead to a decent margin

to categorically say that just because of the final margin, a lot of it piled on when we clearly gave up, it wouldn’t have made a difference is rubbish. It might have and might not have.

But to categorical rule out that Melbourne players might have dropped their heads a ridiculous. I don’t buy that it was their time and no matter what we did they we43 destined to win either as that is also ridiculous. Under such argument, must be the saints turn next year because they are desperate to break their drought
I've watched the full game 3 times now, the second time going back and forth on crucial plays in the 3rd and start of the 4th.
When the game was there to be won, only 1 side stepped up to win the game.

First, unlucky mistake was B Smith leaving the ball behind him. From then on their desire was stronger. In that 7 goal period, all our stars failed, Bont, Treloar, Daniel, English was weak when we needed a contest.
Start of the 4th we win the first centre bounce big wild handball by Bont into space. Who meets the ball the hardest Brayshaw or R. Smith? Brayshaw and down it goes first goal Brown, game over. Too much ball was delivered through Daniel, needed Dale and Williams to step up more.

They lifted, we didn't. We have plenty of time to break the run of 7 goals, we didn't. We just couldn't break the run on. The centre bounce set up was all wrong.

Nothing we can do about it, clearly the best side one, no matter how much we lead by in the 3rd.
 

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