Review Preseason hit out against Dons and Review

[catempire]

We had 14 centre clearances to Essendon's 9.

At one stage we were down 2-7

 

[Mr Meow]

At one stage we were down 2-7

So complete domination after that.

 

[catempire]

So complete domination after that.

A tale of two halves. There's no doubt the first half was incredibly concerning against a really ordinary team.

 

[Mr Meow]

A tale of two halves. There's no doubt the first half was incredibly concerning against a really ordinary team.

We looked like we couldn't be bothered stopping their spread.

I'm only going to give that full credence when it happens in H&A.

There's been a lot of it in all of the preseason footage I've seen.

 

[goyoucatters]

We looked like we couldn't be bothered stopping their spread.

I'm only going to give that full credence when it happens in H&A.

There's been a lot of it in all of the preseason footage I've seen.

Fair enough. However, I do think it's entirely understandable that some here are a bit jumpy about it, given how 'easy to play against' we were in the midfield at crucial times last season.

 

[And_ROOS]

I've noticed people carry big impressions they get from early in the game through to the very end. So despite actually winning the clearance differential after the first quarter, it still "felt" like we let their midfield dominate the stoppages.

And because we had a stack of midfielders finish on 18-21 disposals we "lost" the midfield battle as they had two players share about 60 touches.

It's interesting if you focus instead on score involvements of all of our ruck/midfielders compared to all of theirs. We won that count and fairly comfortably.

"Long year ahead for our midfield" indeed.

The issue is every team that wins flags has a midfield accumulator, a player or 2 that gets 27-33 touches a week because while you have the ball your opposition doesn't. We bucked that trend in 2022, but that was with a midfield that year that batted VERY deep and have high quality players averaging 20 to 25 a week.
We had 8 averaging over 20 disposals in 2022, in 2023 we had 4. We just weren't getting enough of the ball in the middle of the field.

Looking at the bombers game, we had Max with 29, Duncan 20, Bruhn 20, Blicavs 20. We really need a few more players to lift their numbers. Stewart will, if CGuthrie gets fit he will as well.
And if an Atkins and Miers are averaging around the 19/20 disposal mark (both averaged just over 19 disposals last season) thats the right players getting the ball to put us back in contention.

I don't think we have a midfielder that will get the 27-33 touches a week, but if we have Stewart and Holmes getting 26+ each a week I think we win most games because it means we are rebounding strong.

 

[Cataholic]

A tale of two halves. There's no doubt the first half was incredibly concerning against a really ordinary team.

We looked very flat footed for a good while.

 

[Mr Meow]

The issue is every team that wins flags has a midfield accumulator, a player or 2 that gets 27-33 touches a week because while you have the ball your opposition doesn't. We bucked that trend in 2022, but that was with a midfield that year that batted VERY deep and have high quality players averaging 20 to 25 a week.
We had 8 averaging over 20 disposals in 2022, in 2023 we had 4. We just weren't getting enough of the ball in the middle of the field.

Looking at the bombers game, we had Max with 29, Duncan 20, Bruhn 20, Blicavs 20. We really need a few more players to lift their numbers. Stewart will, if CGuthrie gets fit he will as well.
And if an Atkins and Miers are averaging around the 19/20 disposal mark (both averaged just over 19 disposals last season) thats the right players getting the ball to put us back in contention.

I don't think we have a midfielder that will get the 27-33 touches a week, but if we have Stewart and Holmes getting 26+ each a week I think we win most games because it means we are rebounding strong.

Lots of stuff I agree with above but there's plenty of room for nuance.

A midfield group at it's core is just a sum of clearances, tackles, contested and uncontested possessions, effective disposals and productive inside 50s (relative to opposition). The total is all that matters. If we come out on top with that total by 6-7 midfielders getting decent (not staggering) numbers we haven't lost the battle.

Scott's sides are utility overloaded and midfield rotation heavy. Maybe a guilty conscience over thrashing Selwood and Dangerfield into the ground all those years. It's just the way it is.

Stats per time on ground for a lot of our players stack up. Still, as fans we have a thirst for our boys to have those 30 plus possession games our opponents are having.

It's an interesting dilemma and one I have no doubt people will be complaining about most of the year.

It also makes me chuckle that people so easily rubbish Duncan, one of our few players that does get a lot of footy. A couple of bad errors negate the 20 odd times he gets the ball and does a decent job with it. But that's a whole other saga.

 

[catempire]

Lots of stuff I agree with above but there's plenty of room for nuance.

A midfield group at it's core is just a sum of clearances, tackles, contested and uncontested possessions, effective disposals and productive inside 50s (relative to opposition). The total is all that matters. If we come out on top with that total by 6-7 midfielders getting decent (not staggering) numbers we haven't lost the battle.

Scott's sides are utility overloaded and midfield rotation heavy. Maybe a guilty conscience over thrashing Selwood and Dangerfield into the ground all those years. It's just the way it is.

Stats per time on ground for a lot of our players stack up. Still, as fans we have a thirst for our boys to have those 30 plus possession games our opponents are having.

It's an interesting dilemma and one I have no doubt people will be complaining about most of the year.

It also makes me chuckle that people so easily rubbish Duncan, one of our few players that does get a lot of footy. A couple of bad errors negate the 20 odd times he gets the ball and does a decent job with it. But that's a whole other saga.

People being ready to retire Geelong players before their due is a story as old as Tom Hawkins.

 

[Mr Meow]

People being ready to retire Geelong players before their due is a story as old as Tom Hawkins.

Truer words have never been spoken!

 

[Vdubs]

People being ready to retire Geelong players before their due is a story as old as Tom Hawkins.

And Jed Bews.
And Tuohy
And Rohan

 

[Footy Smarts]

People being ready to retire Geelong players before their due is a story as old as Tom Hawkins.

Haha. One of the all-time worst calls in bigfooty history! And wow have there been some shockers.

 

[catempire]

Haha. One of the all-time worst calls in bigfooty history! And wow have there been some shockers.

 

[Vdubs]

Bruhn, Holmes, Clark and Conway are all tracking to be a graders, if not very close to it

Depends on whether you're comparing them with our list or the whole comp?
Holmes, certainly.

 

[Cataholic]

And Jed Bews.
And Tuohy
And Rohan

I'd near go in that order too.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Oh I just felt you're underselling Duncan. I see no reason Bruhn couldn't be as good though.

Was trying to think of a respectable name who is a good player without being an elite AA player and Duncan’s name popped to mind as a comparison.

 

[Lana]

I dont think we will just willingly concede the midfield (that approach isnt in our dna) but i do think the coaches would know at times top 4 midfields will beat ours (its our weakness). So you would hope they have another plan to get enough quality ball to our fwd line (which is top 4 quality) rather than from centre bounce. As you say the way for this might be slingshot from half back which would explain why they are trying holmes there.

We did it in 2013 to great success up until the ahem miracle on grass which revealed the fatal flaw of how we executed our plan.

 

[CatRiot]

Holmes could win our BnF this year.

 

[Mr Meow]

Holmes could win our BnF this year.

He's where the heart is.

 

[Lana]

Forget the names. Look how they performed. Frequently dominated in clearances and other midfield metrics in those periods.

Richmond went 13th, 17th, 18th, 17th in average clearance rankings from 2017-2020 for instance.

For Richmond, any chance that this was driven by their games having less stoppages in total, Win or lose.

 

[Vdubs]

Holmes could win our BnF this year.

Would be good; also Jack Henry winning it would please me immensely.

 

[Generalissimo]

Would be good; also Jack Henry winning it would please me immensely.

Henry B&F.

Holmes Norm Smith.

Cameron to snag the Coleman.

Bruhnlow.

 

[catempire]

For Richmond, any chance that this was driven by their games having less stoppages in total, Win or lose.

That would have to do a lot of heavy lifting in the arithmetic but I confess I haven’t checked.

 

[catempire]

For Richmond, any chance that this was driven by their games having less stoppages in total, Win or lose.

On a quick check, in 2017 they were 1st for hitouts conceded (1142) and 16th for hitouts (794) so seems unlikely that fewer stoppages was the driver, at least for that year.

 

[Lana]

That would have to do a lot of heavy lifting in the arithmetic but I confess I haven’t checked.

I had a quick look, it wasn't the case. they were consistently beaten in the totals. I wonder how the scores from clearance differentials looked.