Preview Preview and Discussion Round 2 Hawthorn v Melbourne
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Minimal changes next week IMO.
Hodge needs to come in. If he's fit enough to play at Box Hill he's fit enough for Hawthorn. Could have used his cool head and direction in the second half.
Only other person I would consider bringing in is Guerra for his hardness and kicking skills. Don't mind the idea of him across half forward for some quality delivery inside 50.
Those in the gun to lose their spot IMO are Birchall and Osborne. Everyone else deserves another crack (Birchall and Osborne probably do too but you can't leave Hodge out!). Suckling, Savage and Shiels all very good so deserve to stay. Bruce poor but needs a few weeks to find his feet - against his old club this week too so will have a point to prove. Bailey not ready so Renouf stays (wouldn't mind Lisle playing ruck next for Box Hill though).
Hodge needs to come in. If he's fit enough to play at Box Hill he's fit enough for Hawthorn. Could have used his cool head and direction in the second half.
Only other person I would consider bringing in is Guerra for his hardness and kicking skills. Don't mind the idea of him across half forward for some quality delivery inside 50.
Those in the gun to lose their spot IMO are Birchall and Osborne. Everyone else deserves another crack (Birchall and Osborne probably do too but you can't leave Hodge out!). Suckling, Savage and Shiels all very good so deserve to stay. Bruce poor but needs a few weeks to find his feet - against his old club this week too so will have a point to prove. Bailey not ready so Renouf stays (wouldn't mind Lisle playing ruck next for Box Hill though).
Hawks vs Dees
Thought their would of been a thread already; just finished watching the draw between Sydney-Melbourne.
Last year after the 2 drawn games Collingwood were the only team that managed to win the next week. I would probably think that since these games are hotly contested to the final whistle, that it's hard to get up again the following week.
Jack Grimes is their most important player. If Lewis does a job on him it will go a long way in us controlling the match.
Trengove is a better player than Scully. Shiels or Batman need to curb his influence as well.
They have pretty good depth. They are probably the worst injury decimated club at the moment, but they manage to still draw with Sydney.
Melbourne are playing very similar to Collingwood with the forward press. The flying V will be used to best effect in this game, even more so than against Adelaide.
On the other hand they appear very fit and are probably the best team at running the ball from defence with speed. Our major Achilles heel is getting caught out on the rebound. We need to address this somehow without losing too much structure. Maybe players like Suckling will need to be omitted so someone like Murphy can play on Bennell. I'd probably put Stratton on Pettard, and Gibson on Jurrah.
Will be interesting days at selection table this week.
Thought their would of been a thread already; just finished watching the draw between Sydney-Melbourne.
Last year after the 2 drawn games Collingwood were the only team that managed to win the next week. I would probably think that since these games are hotly contested to the final whistle, that it's hard to get up again the following week.
Jack Grimes is their most important player. If Lewis does a job on him it will go a long way in us controlling the match.
Trengove is a better player than Scully. Shiels or Batman need to curb his influence as well.
They have pretty good depth. They are probably the worst injury decimated club at the moment, but they manage to still draw with Sydney.
Melbourne are playing very similar to Collingwood with the forward press. The flying V will be used to best effect in this game, even more so than against Adelaide.
On the other hand they appear very fit and are probably the best team at running the ball from defence with speed. Our major Achilles heel is getting caught out on the rebound. We need to address this somehow without losing too much structure. Maybe players like Suckling will need to be omitted so someone like Murphy can play on Bennell. I'd probably put Stratton on Pettard, and Gibson on Jurrah.
Will be interesting days at selection table this week.
IN: Speed
OUT: Slow blokes
We will continue to be run over unless we find some runners. As good as Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis and Sewell are, they don't help our run through the middle. Even Gilham and Bruce are too slow for afl, not to mention Hale and Renouf and we have of the side that couldn't run out of sight on a dark night. It's not the way the game is played these days. Even though they may be the best "footballers" we have, we simply can't carry them all.
Recruiting was interesting this year. Bruce, old and slow, Hale, old and slow, Cheney, slow and not very talented. What was all that about?
We badly need Breust to step up as the small forward to release Cyril since Ozzy hasn't given us anything for years. Hooper loosing the plot has hurt us. And please throw Smith and Pup in, we need line breakers.
OUT: Slow blokes
We will continue to be run over unless we find some runners. As good as Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis and Sewell are, they don't help our run through the middle. Even Gilham and Bruce are too slow for afl, not to mention Hale and Renouf and we have of the side that couldn't run out of sight on a dark night. It's not the way the game is played these days. Even though they may be the best "footballers" we have, we simply can't carry them all.
Recruiting was interesting this year. Bruce, old and slow, Hale, old and slow, Cheney, slow and not very talented. What was all that about?
We badly need Breust to step up as the small forward to release Cyril since Ozzy hasn't given us anything for years. Hooper loosing the plot has hurt us. And please throw Smith and Pup in, we need line breakers.
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- Sep 7, 2009
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INS: L.Hodge B.Guerra K.Cheney
OUTS: M.Suckling L.Sheils B.Whitecross
Team
Backs: B.Stratton S.Gilham B.Guerra
Half Backs: G.Birchall J.Gibson R.Ladson
Centers: C.Bateman S.Mitchell S.Burgoyne
Half Forwards: J.Lewis L.Franklin C.Rioli
Forwards: M.Osborne J.Roughead D.Hale
Rucks: B.Renouf L.Hodge B.Sewell
Interchange: C.Young S.Savage K.Cheney C.Bruce (Sub)
Emergency: X.Ellis T.Murphy P.Puopolo
BTW Why aren't we playing young Wanganeen? We lacked forward pressure against adelaide and it kept rebounding out of defence like a pinball. Now day's most sides have at least to genuine small forwards. Like carlton with Betts & Garlett. Essendon with Davey & Jetta . It would be nice to see a half forward line of Wanganeen Franklin Rioli
If Rioli is going to play in the midfield we need to play a small forward who can tackle kick goals & lock the ball inside 50. Well we had options last year in Peterson Hooper Stokes & Moss, the footy club decided to cut them. Good one as we don't have a small forward atm. 
OUTS: M.Suckling L.Sheils B.Whitecross
Team
Backs: B.Stratton S.Gilham B.Guerra
Half Backs: G.Birchall J.Gibson R.Ladson
Centers: C.Bateman S.Mitchell S.Burgoyne
Half Forwards: J.Lewis L.Franklin C.Rioli
Forwards: M.Osborne J.Roughead D.Hale
Rucks: B.Renouf L.Hodge B.Sewell
Interchange: C.Young S.Savage K.Cheney C.Bruce (Sub)
Emergency: X.Ellis T.Murphy P.Puopolo
BTW Why aren't we playing young Wanganeen? We lacked forward pressure against adelaide and it kept rebounding out of defence like a pinball. Now day's most sides have at least to genuine small forwards. Like carlton with Betts & Garlett. Essendon with Davey & Jetta . It would be nice to see a half forward line of Wanganeen Franklin Rioli
If Rioli is going to play in the midfield we need to play a small forward who can tackle kick goals & lock the ball inside 50. Well we had options last year in Peterson Hooper Stokes & Moss, the footy club decided to cut them. Good one as we don't have a small forward atm. 
Ladson, Gilham, Gibson
Birchall, Stratton, Hodge
Lewis, Burgoyne, Suckling
Savage, Franklin, Young
Rioli, Roughead, Hale
Renouf, Sheils, Mitchell
Sewell, Bateman, Ellis, Whitecross
In- Hodge, Ellis
Out- Bruce, Osborne
Birchall, Stratton, Hodge
Lewis, Burgoyne, Suckling
Savage, Franklin, Young
Rioli, Roughead, Hale
Renouf, Sheils, Mitchell
Sewell, Bateman, Ellis, Whitecross
In- Hodge, Ellis
Out- Bruce, Osborne
spudmaster
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I like the idea of bringing in 4 players and only excluding 3, but I have a feeling Melbourne might object to us having an extra player on the field. Whingers, aren't they!
Agreed with this.
As Mess also pointed out in the BH thread, his stints on the ground on the weekend were fairly short and he seemed to interchange fairly quickly with Lowden on a regular basis. Is definitely improving and gaining confidence, but match fitness wise he looks like he's a while away unless, as you said, we're desperate.
At the moment he is interchanging with Lowden when he needs a rest. Once he can manage to play out the full four quarters as opposed to three, the next step I imagine would be getting him into the swing of resting up forward rather than on the interchange, which in itself will require additional fitness - as this is what he will be asked to do at the Hawks, where he will interchange with Hale.
Thankfully we're in a position where, hopefully, the next tough match won't be until round 5 against the Cats, so who knows how things will be by then. Not suggesting the Dees, Tigers or Eagles will be pushovers by any means, but nor would I imagine that they'd present the same dangers at Adelaide at home.
I'm not sure how many would agree but I wouldn't mind seeing Hodge play again at BH just for one more week, I simply felt he still didn't quite look match fit. He upped his game time and finished on the ground, but one more week wouldn't hurt as he looked a little knackered, and it won't be any easier at AFL level. That said, there's no doubt he could still have a huge impact skill wise against the Dees, and it will take a brave person to tell even suggest the idea to him!
yeah Ellis should obviously not be on the half forward flank but it could be a good spot for him...his decision making and field kicking are his strengths.
I would think Lewis will start there.
Miss_Hawk_Fan
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I like the idea of bringing in 4 players and only excluding 3, but I have a feeling Melbourne might object to us having an extra player on the field. Whingers, aren't they!
quote]
Its a sunday game we always have an extended bench and who goes out depends on the dees line up
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In - Hodge
Out - Osbourne
Whitecross to start and Ladson on the bench.
Out - Osbourne
Whitecross to start and Ladson on the bench.
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Not sure Whitecross is the right man for the sub role. To have to come onto the ground in the last quarter and just go bang and be on is not him.
Bailey def not ready, Hodge not ready. We are going to need pace in the back half more than ever against Melbourne and this should the be the dictator for who comes in.
Are they ready for the big time? Smith or Puopolo?
Renouf is a better player than he showed against Adelaide. Had a bit of Simon Taylor circa 2009 about his game on saturday.
Very difficult to find who goes out.
Bruce is close but defensively Ok and can run.
Osbourne stays as we need the small forward.
Renouf is a necessity.
Whitecross had minimal impact but what can you expect of a young player left on the bench for three quarters.
Suckling needs to be given a chance and maybe found where he can be the most dangerous with that kick. He also needs a few more tricks. Can he tackle?
But we need pace.
In: Smith
Out: Birchall
Bailey def not ready, Hodge not ready. We are going to need pace in the back half more than ever against Melbourne and this should the be the dictator for who comes in.
Are they ready for the big time? Smith or Puopolo?
Renouf is a better player than he showed against Adelaide. Had a bit of Simon Taylor circa 2009 about his game on saturday.
Very difficult to find who goes out.
Bruce is close but defensively Ok and can run.
Osbourne stays as we need the small forward.
Renouf is a necessity.
Whitecross had minimal impact but what can you expect of a young player left on the bench for three quarters.
Suckling needs to be given a chance and maybe found where he can be the most dangerous with that kick. He also needs a few more tricks. Can he tackle?
But we need pace.
In: Smith
Out: Birchall
Great 2008
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Can't believe the amount wanting Ladson dropped, talk about pre-conceived ideas after an off-season of whingeing about picking players on form.
Guerra played quite well across hf yesterday, wouldn't mind him replacing Osborne. Bailey is not ready, and should not be picked and Murphy unlikely too IMO. Hodge and Ellis the others to come in, for Whitecross and Bateman IMO.
B: Suckling - Gilham - Stratton
HB: Hodge - Gibson - Birchall
C: Savage - Sewell - Young
HF: Rioli - Franklin - Lewis
F: Hale - Roughead - Guerra
R: Renouf - Mitchell - Burgoyne
I/C: Ladson - Sheils - Bruce - Ellis
Like this side. Not too many changes. I think we need to see how this side travels at home, taking the 'away' factor out of the equation. I think we will be fine especially if we can reproduce that first half form for an extended period of time. There was a lot too like early.
Would also like to see the players enjoying their footy a bit more.
My team:
B: Guerra - Gilham - Stratton
HB: Ellis - Gibson - Birchall
C: Savage - Burgoynel - Young
HF: Rioli - Franklin - Lewis
F: Hale - Roughead - WhiteX
R: Renouf - Mitchell - Sool
I/C: Suckling - Sheils - Bateman - Bruce(sub)
In hindsight, probalby a poor move to bring in the youngsters against Adelaide, especially when Goo and X-man played so well for BHH. There was time and space to give the kids chances in the next three rounds against easier opponents.
Bruce to sub after his poor effort. WhiteX in, I think the sub needs to be rotated around to share the game time.
I don't think Hodge, Large Max and Smurf are quite ready yet.
B: Guerra - Gilham - Stratton
HB: Ellis - Gibson - Birchall
C: Savage - Burgoynel - Young
HF: Rioli - Franklin - Lewis
F: Hale - Roughead - WhiteX
R: Renouf - Mitchell - Sool
I/C: Suckling - Sheils - Bateman - Bruce(sub)
In hindsight, probalby a poor move to bring in the youngsters against Adelaide, especially when Goo and X-man played so well for BHH. There was time and space to give the kids chances in the next three rounds against easier opponents.
Bruce to sub after his poor effort. WhiteX in, I think the sub needs to be rotated around to share the game time.
I don't think Hodge, Large Max and Smurf are quite ready yet.
I like the idea of bringing in 4 players and only excluding 3, but I have a feeling Melbourne might object to us having an extra player on the field. Whingers, aren't they!
Agreed with this.
As Mess also pointed out in the BH thread, his stints on the ground on the weekend were fairly short and he seemed to interchange fairly quickly with Lowden on a regular basis. Is definitely improving and gaining confidence, but match fitness wise he looks like he's a while away unless, as you said, we're desperate.
At the moment he is interchanging with Lowden when he needs a rest. Once he can manage to play out the full four quarters as opposed to three, the next step I imagine would be getting him into the swing of resting up forward rather than on the interchange, which in itself will require additional fitness - as this is what he will be asked to do at the Hawks, where he will interchange with Hale.
Thankfully we're in a position where, hopefully, the next tough match won't be until round 5 against the Cats, so who knows how things will be by then. Not suggesting the Dees, Tigers or Eagles will be pushovers by any means, but nor would I imagine that they'd present the same dangers at Adelaide at home.
I'm not sure how many would agree but I wouldn't mind seeing Hodge play again at BH just for one more week, I simply felt he still didn't quite look match fit. He upped his game time and finished on the ground, but one more week wouldn't hurt as he looked a little knackered, and it won't be any easier at AFL level. That said, there's no doubt he could still have a huge impact skill wise against the Dees, and it will take a brave person to tell even suggest the idea to him!
The speed and intensity that Melb finished of the 4th qtr would suggest that we def need Hodge...even for composure and guidance...
R
Rumblah#16
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Agree with all of this. Bruce won't get dropped after one game, and I thought he did some good things against Adelaide. There were a few turnovers, sure but I think he deserves at least one more game.
Keep Suckling in, he looked good I thought. My god his footskills are absolutely beautiful.
Smith in.
People need to look at the match a bit closer, I was at Adeliade and I thought that suckling played himself out of the side, his kicking may be good but his decision making is not good enough, he kicks to the wrong spots , he gave the crows 3 goals from his mistakes, he lacks urgency and hardness in attacking the contest and struggles in congestion, we desperately need Goo back directing things and setting up play correctly from defense, give suckers some time at box hill.
Melbourne's pace in the fwd line is really going to expose ladson, suckling and birchall (and prob gilham and murphy if he comes in). Does bateman tag someone down back?
Think hodge is needed down back to sort out the flying V.
Do we even need gilham against melb given how short their forward line is?
Mitch, Sewell, Lewis, burgoyne in the middle is a concern re: legspeed
Puopolo needs to come in or we will continally be exposed with the ball going over the back of the zone. WX or savage may also be handy moving into the backline to man up on the dees pacy smalls.
Smith may give melb to think about going the other way.
I would have:
B: Puopolo Gibson WX
HB: Hodge Stratton Bruce
W: Smith Burgoyne Young
HF: Savage Buddy Rioli
F: Ossie Roughie Hale
R: Renouf Mitch Sewell
Int: Shiels, Ladson, Bateman Sub: Suckling (his kicking could be damaging late in a game)
Think hodge is needed down back to sort out the flying V.
Do we even need gilham against melb given how short their forward line is?
Mitch, Sewell, Lewis, burgoyne in the middle is a concern re: legspeed
Puopolo needs to come in or we will continally be exposed with the ball going over the back of the zone. WX or savage may also be handy moving into the backline to man up on the dees pacy smalls.
Smith may give melb to think about going the other way.
I would have:
B: Puopolo Gibson WX
HB: Hodge Stratton Bruce
W: Smith Burgoyne Young
HF: Savage Buddy Rioli
F: Ossie Roughie Hale
R: Renouf Mitch Sewell
Int: Shiels, Ladson, Bateman Sub: Suckling (his kicking could be damaging late in a game)
I have a crazy idea!
What about putting Guerra on the half forward line? Great foot skills and knows how to kick a goal from his St Kilda and Port days.
Also, when at your next hawthorn game live watch Birchall.
Simply does not work hard enough and has no tackle ability at all. I think Pup will have just as good rebound ability as Birch plus defensive ability.
What about putting Guerra on the half forward line? Great foot skills and knows how to kick a goal from his St Kilda and Port days.
Also, when at your next hawthorn game live watch Birchall.
Simply does not work hard enough and has no tackle ability at all. I think Pup will have just as good rebound ability as Birch plus defensive ability.
purringgirl
Senior List
Heya
Does anyone know if this one will be on TV in Melbs?
I cant find the broadcast info anywhere on the internet...
Does anyone know if this one will be on TV in Melbs?
I cant find the broadcast info anywhere on the internet...
Something has to be done about the small forward role. Whitecross, Guerra, Puopolo, Cyril even Ellis has gotten forward for a few goals previously. We need more pressure and a crumbing avenue to goal.
Birchall to substitute
Birchall to substitute
Pretty sure it's live on Foxtel.
Really like this team mate.
I watched the melbourne vs sydney game and the dees were bloody quick, this could become an issue, which is why I like the team above. We are going to need all the pace we can get this week IMO.
I hope we don't make a massive number of changes. I thought we looked pretty quick around the ground (except for the last quarter), Burgoyne tiring in the last quarter really hurt us as we had no pace around the centre packs. Might need to look at resting Rioli more early in the game to allow him to play in the middle in the second half. His pressure last week was something special which I don't think has earned enough attention.
I think we keep our defence pretty similar. Maybe move Bruce to the forward line and bring in Murphy/Ellis/Puopolo/Cheney but definitely need Gilham (for Jamar and Martin), Stratton for Jurrah and Gibson for Watts. Lynden Dunne looked busy yesterday and deserves a strong match-up which I can't see Birchall providing.
We shouldn't put Savage in the middle again, he's quick but still isn't strong enough to win centre clearances. I think the pace in the centre square needs to come from one of Burgoyne, Rioli, Shiels or Bateman in there at all times.
In the end, Shiels, Savage, Suckling and Bruce all deserve to stay in for at least another week.
I think we keep our defence pretty similar. Maybe move Bruce to the forward line and bring in Murphy/Ellis/Puopolo/Cheney but definitely need Gilham (for Jamar and Martin), Stratton for Jurrah and Gibson for Watts. Lynden Dunne looked busy yesterday and deserves a strong match-up which I can't see Birchall providing.
We shouldn't put Savage in the middle again, he's quick but still isn't strong enough to win centre clearances. I think the pace in the centre square needs to come from one of Burgoyne, Rioli, Shiels or Bateman in there at all times.
In the end, Shiels, Savage, Suckling and Bruce all deserve to stay in for at least another week.
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