Revisiting the Delistings...

[Psychic Roo]

with petrie having a couple of good games for the eagles, started thinking about this. I think over time many had accepted the call to cull greats of the club to give younger guys a run but I am really questioning where this is now.
IMO Dal Santo >>Swallow 2017
Firrito or Petrie (even half cooked) + Durdin/Neilson>thompson 2017
Harvey>>>Thomas 2017
Preuss > Goldstein 2017
Why are we still playing these guys (accepting some are contracted for next year) and justifying last year's call - doesnt seem to make sense now. We can't finish much lower...

 

[Gasometer]

U are shitting me?

 

[Flawed Genius]

Phwoar OK let's break this one down.

Dal Santo and Swallow are two vastly different styles of player. Dal more outside and Swallow more inside. So your comparison is flawed from the get go. But let's compare the two for funsies.

Disposals: NDS 545 vs AS 447
Tackles: NDS 72 vs AS 165
Rebound 50: NDS 38 vs AS 29
Inside 50s: NDS 62 vs AS 60
Clearances: NDS 65 vs AS 108

56% of AS touches were contested. 33% of NDS touches were contested.
NDS averaged 24 touches a game from 82% TOG vs AS averaged 20 touches a game from 72% TOG.

So even if you ignore the fact that they're completely different footballers, NDS was not that much more valuable on the outside than Swallow. AS covered almost as much ground and racked up nearly as many R50s & I50s, the best indicator for whether a player is capable of spreading to both ends of the ground, in 10% less game time. He also vastly outperformed NDS in clearances, and led the team in tackles by 53 (next best JZ).

Swallow still has a role to play as long as Dumont is out of form and the rest of our midfield looks like a maternity ward. He will probably not be at the club in 2018 but give me a choice between he and NDS to be here in 2017 and I'm taking Swallow every time. NDS has slotted well into a media role and good on him. He was spent at this club. We are wringing everything out of AS and long will he be remembered as this football club's warrior of warriors.

Durdin and Neilson have stepped onto the AFL field a combined one time this entire year. There is no evidence to suggest that they are a better option than Thompson, who has had a shocking start to the year, followed by a resurgence, and now a dip in form. Petrie was cooked at North, and it's no surprise that with a better midfield delivering him better footy, he's playing well in WA. Firrito would still make the team.

No arguments with Harvey vs Thomas.

I'll give you Preuss over Goldstein. Except he's injured.

 

[Flawed Genius]

Bottom line. The club made the decision to move on elder statesmen. It was a ruthless decision.

IMO Firrito and Harvey could've felt aggrieved that they were given the chop. Petrie and NDS not so much.

The revisionist history does nobody any favours.

 

[Gasometer]

In b4 lock

 

[tazaa]

Not being a dick but who cares?
Why do we keep looking back? It's pointless.
Club made the call and it is what it is.

 

[Shermanator]

FFS move on..

 

[Augustine]

I think everyone who's rational accepts the need to move on some veterans and create opportunities for the next generation. But I think it's also rational to question if the right players were moved on. So yes I agree with the premise of the OP if not the particulars.

Petrie was awful last year. Moving him on was the right call, but I'd have also not offered Waite a contract personally.

NDS was the right call too. Id have looked to trade Swallow to the Gold Coast (what with two years left on his contract) but I appreciate the delicacy of trading a captain and the cultural implications.

If the club was really bold they'd have traded Goldy. It's probably too late now to get any decent value.

Ray, Nahas, Mckenzie nothing needs to be said there.

Gibson I'd keep. Thompson I'd have tapped on the shoulder. I'm torn on Firrito but I'm going to say keep. It would have been better if got rid of Thomas too but it was hard to know that at the time.

As for Boomer, I'm convinced we needed one of him or Wells this year and I think that list management only got rid of him thinking we'd still have Wells. So I'd have kept Boomer.

So In my ideal world:

Keep: Boomer, Gibson, Firrito

Lose: Petrie, Waite, Wells(still breaks my heart), Thomas, Thompson, NDS, Swallow, Goldy, Ray, Mckenzie, Nahas

Wow I'm harsh. Yet I feel like we'd be in a better position right now if we'd done these things.

But the benefits of retrospect and all that...

 

[Gasometer]

Pagan....rear view mirror and dat.

 

[Augustine]

Not being a dick but who cares?
Why do we keep looking back? It's pointless.
Club made the call and it is what it is.

Disagree. If you don't look at past decisions and analyse their outcomes, how can we possibly learn how to make the best decisions in the future?

If you're not personally interested in the discussion don't click on the thread!

 

[tazaa]

Disagree. If you don't look at past decisions and analyse their outcomes, how can we possibly learn how to make the best decisions in the future?

If you're not personally interested in the discussion don't click on the thread!

TBH we made a tough call at the time and it's way too early to assess if it was fruitful or not.
Right now it has no bearing whatsoever on the right or wrong call being made.

 

[Augustine]

TBH we made a tough call at the time and it's way too early to assess if it was fruitful or not.
Right now it has no bearing whatsoever on the right or wrong call being made.

That's a very good point.

But still think we can make some assessments on the list management. For example I'm beginning to wonder if he should have actually been far bolder and harsher (albeit kept one of Wells or Harvey).

At the end of this year there's a lot of names on my chopping block and I hope the clubs thinking the same. We need to attack this rebuild aggressively.

 

[ozzyoslo]

Disagree. If you don't look at past decisions and analyse their outcomes, how can we possibly learn how to make the best decisions in the future?

If you're not personally interested in the discussion don't click on the thread!

I agreed with tazaa but I also find myself agreeing with what you say here as well Augustine.......What I 'm alarmed at , down at Arden st is how they got themselves in a situation where theyre paying top coin for a ruckman:- whether he is in form or what he is today > not that's irelevent. I trully hope that this is one of those situations where they learn from their mistakes of the past.

 

[numchuks]

Put Harvey back in our side and those 4 losses under a goal would have all been reversed and we'd be sitting just outside the 8.

The rest of the axed can be forgotten about, but delisting Harvey was one of the all time worst calls this club has ever made.

Petrie, Firrito and Dal I couldn't give a rats tossbag

 

[Augustine]

Put Harvey back in our side and those 4 losses under a goal would have all been reversed and we'd be sitting just outside the 8.

I was as upset as anyone over Harvey but you can't possibly know that.

 

[Augustine]

I agreed with Tazaa but I also find myself agreeing with what you say here as well Augustine.......What I 'm alarmed at , down at Arden st is how they got themselves in a situation where theyre paying top coin for a ruckman:- whether he is in form or what he is today > not that's irelevent. I trully hope that this is one of those situations where they learn from their mistakes of the past.

I don't understand having your ruckman being your highest paid player, not in the modern game.

 

[WesternRoo]

It's frustrating watching some of these older blokes spud it up, but you need some experience out there to hold a semblance of structure together.

I would have kept Boomer and got rid of Petrie, Firrito and Dal.

Next year Swallow will go I'm guessing and one of Hansen or Thompson with neither playing round 1

Goldstein traded, same with Thomas

Gibbo VFL

Waite off a wing drifting back may help a young CHB in Nielsen or Durdin so he is a keep.

Our 22 Round 1 next year:


M Williams - Tarrant - Vickers

Macmillan - Nielsen - Wright

Atley - Dumont - McDonald

Simpkin - Wood - Garner

Higgins - Brown - Ziebell

Preuss - Cunnington - Mountford

J Williams - Hrovat - Larkey - Pick 2 (mid)

 

[Augustine]

It's frustrating watching some of these older blokes spud it up, but you need some experience out there to hold a semblance of structure together.

I would have kept Boomer and got rid of Petrie, Firrito and Dal.

Next year Swallow will go I'm guessing and one of Hansen or Thompson with neither playing round 1

Goldstein traded, same with Thomas

Gibbo VFL

Waite off a wing drifting back may help a young CHB in Nielsen or Durdin so he is a keep.

Our 22 Round 1 next year:


M Williams - Tarrant - Vickers

Macmillan - Nielsen - Wright

Atley - Dumont - McDonald

Simpkin - Wood - Garner

Higgins - Brown - Ziebell

Preuss - Cunnington - Mountford

J Williams - Hrovat - Larkey - Pick 2 (mid)

Don't forget about Ahern

 

[Le Grille]

Of the delistings the only one who was 50/50 was boomer. NDS offered us nothing that we have missed this season, Petrie has found a new lease of life over at WCE but he wasn't performing like that for us last season. I felt Firrito was done. Boomer was getting the ball but I dont think he'd have solved what I think is the biggest problem and that is stopping teams getting a run on. It seems to stem from usually 2 players getting bucketloads of the ball.

Rightly or wrongly had we not delisted them last year we'd be facing the same problems next year, without having given the new players games. It was in my opinion the right call.

 

[FloozyRoozy]

It's frustrating watching some of these older blokes spud it up, but you need some experience out there to hold a semblance of structure together.

I would have kept Boomer and got rid of Petrie, Firrito and Dal.

Next year Swallow will go I'm guessing and one of Hansen or Thompson with neither playing round 1

Goldstein traded, same with Thomas

Gibbo VFL

Waite off a wing drifting back may help a young CHB in Nielsen or Durdin so he is a keep.

Our 22 Round 1 next year:


M Williams - Tarrant - Vickers

Macmillan - Nielsen - Wright

Atley - Dumont - McDonald

Simpkin - Wood - Garner

Higgins - Brown - Ziebell

Preuss - Cunnington - Mountford

J Williams - Hrovat - Larkey - Pick 2 (mid)

No offence man, but you're crazy if you think Sammy Wright is going to be in the side next year I think he'll be delisted he can't get his ankles right

 

[Ischenko]

No offence man, but you're crazy if you think Sammy Wright is going to be in the side next year I think he'll be delisted he can't get his ankles right

I will bet you 1 billion dollars that Sammy Wright is not delisted.

 

[ripperpart]

I will bet you 1 billion dollars that Sammy Wright is not delisted.

damnnnnnn how much did you put on Horn to beat Pacquiao?

 

[Zondor]

I would like to say had we kept all our experienced types we would be right in the mix to steal a Premiership in such an even season however with an Ironstein in charge it wouldn't have mattered a * as team selection and structures would've cost us anyways. :stern look

 

[Gasometer]

It's frustrating watching some of these older blokes spud it up, but you need some experience out there to hold a semblance of structure together.

I would have kept Boomer and got rid of Petrie, Firrito and Dal.

Next year Swallow will go I'm guessing and one of Hansen or Thompson with neither playing round 1

Goldstein traded, same with Thomas

Gibbo VFL

Waite off a wing drifting back may help a young CHB in Nielsen or Durdin so he is a keep.

Our 22 Round 1 next year:


M Williams - Tarrant - Vickers

Macmillan - Nielsen - Wright

Atley - Dumont - McDonald

Simpkin - Wood - Garner

Higgins - Brown - Ziebell

Preuss - Cunnington - Mountford

J Williams - Hrovat - Larkey - Pick 2 (mid)

No Kelly.

No Martin.

Sadness.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Phwoar OK let's break this one down.

Dal Santo and Swallow are two vastly different styles of player. Dal more outside and Swallow more inside. So your comparison is flawed from the get go. But let's compare the two for funsies.

Disposals: NDS 545 vs AS 447
Tackles: NDS 72 vs AS 165
Rebound 50: NDS 38 vs AS 29
Inside 50s: NDS 62 vs AS 60
Clearances: NDS 65 vs AS 108

56% of AS touches were contested. 33% of NDS touches were contested.
NDS averaged 24 touches a game from 82% TOG vs AS averaged 20 touches a game from 72% TOG.

So even if you ignore the fact that they're completely different footballers, NDS was not that much more valuable on the outside than Swallow. AS covered almost as much ground and racked up nearly as many R50s & I50s, the best indicator for whether a player is capable of spreading to both ends of the ground, in 10% less game time. He also vastly outperformed NDS in clearances, and led the team in tackles by 53 (next best JZ).

Swallow still has a role to play as long as Dumont is out of form and the rest of our midfield looks like a maternity ward. He will probably not be at the club in 2018 but give me a choice between he and NDS to be here in 2017 and I'm taking Swallow every time. NDS has slotted well into a media role and good on him. He was spent at this club. We are wringing everything out of AS and long will he be remembered as this football club's warrior of warriors.

Durdin and Neilson have stepped onto the AFL field a combined one time this entire year. There is no evidence to suggest that they are a better option than Thompson, who has had a shocking start to the year, followed by a resurgence, and now a dip in form. Petrie was cooked at North, and it's no surprise that with a better midfield delivering him better footy, he's playing well in WA. Firrito would still make the team.

No arguments with Harvey vs Thomas.

I'll give you Preuss over Goldstein. Except he's injured.

THIS is how it's done.

Great post.

When Nicky Dals kicking dropped off, he became just a good ordinary player.