Autopsy Roast & Toast vs Geelong & Changes for Adelaide

[gavaniacono]

Ok if we buy the idea that innovation and evolution is the only way for GF teams to keep maintaining any chance of winning further GF's...
Where does that leave geelol in the scheme of things?!?
Still have players from their GF winning sides...same coach...traded away their Draft picks...?!? What's different down there?!?

First thing is: Cats haven't won anything yet since 2011, so they are yet to be the model to follow!
Second thing is: I wouldn't identify one single team as the example of adaptation this year, but several who clearly have our measure now and can put us away pretty easily and we have no reply. The game style has changed across the board and ours hasn't kept up (scoring this year is very low due to the caution and playing keepings off), though I have seen enough to think that we are in the process of making some changes especially with the new cattle. Being willing to give up possession and win it back gave me great joy in 2017 but not so in 2019.

 

[mauricerioli]

Yep. **** the guest passes off altogether.
Every year against Essendon they come in and act like it's the outer.

Agreed. They should be for Richmond members only.

Walking around checking memberships with ID is a good idea too.

Every week I see opposition supporters walk in with their club colours on and a Richmond membership lanyard around their neck. It’s a joke

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

First thing is: Cats haven't won anything yet since 2011, so they are yet to be the model to follow!
Second thing is: I wouldn't identify one single team as the example of adaptation this year, but several who clearly have our measure now and can put us away pretty easily and we have no reply. The game style has changed across the board and ours hasn't kept up (scoring this year is very low due to the caution and playing keepings off), though I have seen enough to think that we are in the process of making some changes especially with the new cattle. Being willing to give up possession and win it back gave me great joy in 2017 but not so in 2019.

Ok then I'm at a loss to understand from your original post how to explain geelol's current level of success...
If teams need to evolve how have geelol evolved?!?

 

[Hoos]

Ok then I'm at a loss to understand from your original post how to explain geelol's current level of success...
If teams need to evolve how have geelol evolved?!?

They don't play the same way as they used to, plus - and more importantly - they have better quality players all over the park now.

And they haven't won anything yet.

 

[cairo tiger]

It’s no use bringing pressure without players that can execute skill caddy Higgins Rioli Prestia butler graham Macca soldo and several others are found wanting with skill errors. We also need to change our game plan how obvious is it not to bomb to lynch. Geelong exposed us for skill and smarts. We badly need an inside mid hello Cunnington and a defensible forward who can kick goals . Ruck is an obvious one also. We matched cats foe pressure and should have been 3 goals up. Our centre movements are awful. What are the mid and forward coaches doing.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

They don't play the same way as they used to, plus - and more importantly - they have better quality players all over the park now.

They beat us yes!
But back to that post about innovating to stay in contention for GF flags...where is the evidence of their geelol's innovation?!?

 

[Hoos]

They beat us yes!
But back to that post about innovating to stay in contention for GF flags...where is the evidence of their geelol's innovation?!?

I think they've become a more methodical side than they used to be. And not every flag is won by the most innovative side. Sometimes it's just the best side. Right now, they're the best side.

 

[Caveman68]

Agreed. They should be for Richmond members only.

Walking around checking memberships with ID is a good idea too.

Every week I see opposition supporters walk in with their club colours on and a Richmond membership lanyard around their neck. It’s a joke

I have no issue with oppo supporters as long as they’re not flogs. I had a Geelong supporter next to me on Friday night and he was a nice bloke. We had a great chat. We need guest passes for extra club revenue and ability to bring a friend/relative however the main issue is at the entry points. Staff are paid to do one job. Check the members cards upon entry. Also randomly check against ID. This will stop the dickheads from coming in. If they come in and carry on, find security. It’s not rocket science.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

I think they've become a more methodical side than they used to be. And not every flag is won by the most innovative side. Sometimes it's just the best side. Right now, they're the best side.

I agree...that geelol are the best side at the moment...hence their top spot on the AFL ladder..
But innovate to get there...hahhh...don't see it!
We won a flag in 2017 just two years ago and got TLynch for a forward with JR...that's innovation for me...
Unfortunately as the saying goes..the best laid plans of mice and men (including innovation) can go belly up...as our injuries have shown!

 

[tora tora tora]

They beat us yes!
But back to that post about innovating to stay in contention for GF flags...where is the evidence of their geelol's innovation?!?

Good backline. 2 KPFs in form (we have that)
A winning midfield is the difference: Kelly Danger & Ablett amongst others
Our 1st & last qtrs were OK. But the middle half, allowing 15 unanswered goals was the major problem. Baker looked stuffed. Balta was out of position, Cotch ain't back to form yet. Caddy out of form Higgins not doing enough. Leaving too much to Prestia.

 

[Hoos]

A winning midfield is the difference: Kelly Danger & Ablett amongst others

Yeah, not least of all Duncan and Selwwod.

 

[TigerImposter]

Yeah, not least of all Duncan and Selwwod.

Their biggest innovation was improving their small forwards with Miers and Ablett who can both rotate through the guts if they intend to. They can both win their own ball and wtf kick goals. They’re both clean and dangerous and need constant attention.
We have tackling small forwards who really only specialise in tackling and chasing.
Their other improvements are making Tom Hawkins more mobile and he’s not playing the deep stay home forward anymore. The Rat and Stanley combination are both improvements on their previous less mobile ruck stocks and the can both be handy up forward.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Good backline. 2 KPFs in form (we have that)
A winning midfield is the difference: Kelly Danger & Ablett amongst others
Our 1st & last qtrs were OK. But the middle half, allowing 15 unanswered goals was the major problem. Baker looked stuffed. Balta was out of position, Cotch ain't back to form yet. Caddy out of form Higgins not doing enough. Leaving too much to Prestia.

Kelly did nothing...Selwood not as effective either as he has been...Dangerflop was their driver...
GAZ helped himself to easy goals with smart roving...
Hawkins seems to have recovered from his bad back injury...and playing with confidence...
Their one recruit that is all class is that Meirs...
That Sydney player adds pace and that Bulldogs player adds hardness...
They are playing well and are the side to beat but it's the same old geelol side to me held together with gaffa tape and wire...
Be interesting their run in the finals...

 

[RFCGloryJC]

Geelong is the best team, at the moment, no doubt.
They should have a form slump at some time though.
I don't think they are as good in quality as the premiership era.
Bartel, Ling, Selwood, Ablett, Johnson, in peak form.
We can grasp our opportunities when they arise.

 

[Shazza_]

Kelly did nothing...Selwood not as effective either as he has been...Dangerflop was their driver...
GAZ helped himself to easy goals with smart roving...
Hawkins seems to have recovered from his bad back injury...and playing with confidence...
Their one recruit that is all class is that Meirs...
That Sydney player adds pace and that Bulldogs player adds hardness...
They are playing well and are the side to beat but it's the same old geelol side to me held together with gaffa tape and wire...
Be interesting their run in the finals...

they love topping up

wont end well

 

[muzhogg]

The Crow's injury list

ADELAIDE
INJURIES

Tom Doedee (knee) season

Queue some Adelaide supporter arguing that they have more significant outs than we do because BigFooty.

 

[clark1980]

we were in geelongs position last year and it didn't work out for us. still 11 weeks till finals. form and injuries can change in the mean time. we just have to keep winning games and hopefully get games into the players returning, so they can regain form (eg Cotchin looks great at times the last 2 weeks and then dies out, not match fit). if we can get to the finals and have stack, balta and baker as our 20-22nd players we will be looking ok. we definitely have to rejig our mid field and forward set ups. but thats ok, if we change it a little it'll surprise the opposition as well. disappointed in Friday nights performance but we are still in the hunt, just need to have some injury luck.

 

[TigerDusty]

I have no issue with oppo supporters as long as they’re not flogs. I had a Geelong supporter next to me on Friday night and he was a nice bloke. We had a great chat. We need guest passes for extra club revenue and ability to bring a friend/relative however the main issue is at the entry points. Staff are paid to do one job. Check the members cards upon entry. Also randomly check against ID. This will stop the dickheads from coming in. If they come in and carry on, find security. It’s not rocket science.

I agree, there have been some good opposition supporters I’ve met in there. But lately it seems to be a sport to carry on like a flog and wind up as many Richmond supporters as possible which kind of ruins the experience for those paying good money to be there.

I get that the club makes good money from guest passes because they don’t really seem to want to police them, but shouldn’t they be just that- passes for guests? I’ve lined up to get in to games and watched everyone around me scanning printed guest passes. Very few actual 3121 members in sight. So at what point does the club actually say hang on, we are pissing off our actual members for the sake of a $70 guest pass here? And I know most in there pour a fair bit of coin into the club- I pay for a family membership and my kids sponsor a player each so if we are talking about membership yield I’m on the hook big time.

And good luck with security, they don’t seem to give a s**t anyway. They’re very reluctant to act on anything, even if you report it to them.

 

[Bazzar]

Geelong is the best team, at the moment, no doubt.
They should have a form slump at some time though.
I don't think they are as good in quality as the premiership era.
Bartel, Ling, Selwood, Ablett, Johnson, in peak form.
We can grasp our opportunities when they arise.

Nothing special about the Cats quality apart from a small handful of stars, they're just playing great pressure based footy like us in '17.
The pre-bye planets have aligned (like us in '95) and everything is purring along just fine, but they gave been blessed with injury and suspension with 11 players playing every game (pies, eagles 12, the Tiges only 5, Prestia, Sheds, Higgins, KMac, and Lynch.) and along with eagles have used 30 players (pies 29, the Tiges 35)

Swans 2016, Crows 2017, Tiges 2018 all favorites during the H&A and didn't win the flag, hope history repeats and Geelong suffer the same fate.

 

[RFCGloryJC]

The other thing is too GWS, WC and Coll have patchy form.
If we can string together consistent form we are in with a chance.
Lambert, Riewoldt, Nank, Astbury, Short, Ross return over time.
Pickett could be an X-factor.
Cotchin's injury was probably more severe than we thought and he will take time to gradually adjust.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Backs really against the wall stuff:
OUTusty(cork),Vlas(ribs),Lynch(rest),Butler.
IN:CCJ,Miller,Chol & Weller.

Grimes,Miller,Garth
Houli,Balta,Edwards.
Kmac,Cotch,Naish
Rioli,Chol,George
Caddy,CCJ,Higgins
Soldo,Stack,Prestia
Townsend,Graham,Baker,Weller.

 

[Lsta062]

It's nowhere near the worst idea that's been brought up in here (or anywhere else). Not sure if they'll be game to try it while Astbury is out though.

Yeah I wouldn’t be trying this out either with the amount of tall forwards Adelaide have. Maybe we can try it after the bye when Astbury is expected to be back.

 

[Lsta062]

The other thing is too GWS, WC and Coll have patchy form.
If we can string together consistent form we are in with a chance.
Lambert, Riewoldt, Nank, Astbury, Short, Ross return over time.
Pickett could be an X-factor.
Cotchin's injury was probably more severe than we thought and he will take time to gradually adjust.

A side with those players in would make us look so much better. I think Cotchin is tracking fine. He’s getting to the right spots and you can tell he is an experienced midfielder. Just needs to settle in.

These injuries were always going to happen. At least now that we’ve been thrown in the deep end we’ll be OK with only a couple of injuries to important players unlike before.

 

[Grrr]

A VERY RUDE AND SHOCKING AWAKENING!
Good first 1/4, how good are the Cats hitting the switch after a poor 1st then phenomenal in the 2nd and 3rd?

The "system' as it is called won us a flag and close to a 2nd. The evolution of young players has been great to see this year. However, the game plan of winning the ball back no longer beats the top teams who refuse to give it back and can blunt the pressure. Malthouse circa 2010 said his game style had 2-3 years validity tops before it gets superseded. Clarkson had an epiphany in 2010 that what they were doing wouldn't work again. It is Tiger time in a similar way too. We have a lot of cattle to work with, a good mix of young and old.

Correct. We had a system that relied on roll players with a great mix of stars that carried them up to a point. With those stars injured, we have not been able to match the top sides due to deficiency of talent and in some respect hardness and body size. You can only carry x amount of small players into a game.

Late season but more likely next year, we will have that size and talent, even if they are young. Ross and Stack are hard and quality. Add Pickett, another preseason into Baker (a small that is not a roll player). Perhaps RCD, Turner is a good size already with plenty of skill. Another year of footy into Balta.
We will be much more like Geelong next year, that mix of hard bodies and good skill.

 

[Coach_Required]

Outs: Townsend, Rioli & Higgins

Ins: Chol, Broad & Bolton


Bringing in Chol, helps out Soldo and also Lynch up forward, improves our structure around the ground.

Bringing in Broad, helps out Balta down back while letting Garthwaite & Grimes concentrate on their key opponents

Bringing in Bolton because Rioli has been pretty disappointing this year and Higgins needs to go back and find his touch again.