Autopsy Round 16, 2023: West Coast v St.Kilda *WILKIE 100TH*

[gringo2011]

0 clangers according the the AFL app, Marshall had 7

He might not have had any clangers but he made mistakes still. I'm as guilty as anyone of blaming him for everything going wrong down back but I thought he was okay overall after shaky start.

 

[austinnn]

We found a way to win, which is important. Yes it was ugly, we dug ourselves a massive hole but we managed to dig our way out of it and win.

Ross Lyon teams are rarely going to play amazing football. We got him in to instill a culture of winning and it seems we are on the way to doing that while playing a lot of kids.

Yes we need to play a lot better, yes our midfield is spluttering, but seriously imagine if we'd lost?

We are unearthing kids and in the hunt for finals. The year is a big success thus far, let's hope we can go on with it.

I just finished watching the replay after missing the game live, and honestly I could have written exactly what you wrote, point for point and the same goes for your following post.

I've said it already but Gresham is such a dynamic player, he might be a headache but he makes stuff happen and when he's on, he wins games for his club. I would still move him on, but only for a great deal: he's our Cyril.

I don't watch the Eagles at all except for when they play us, but I've seen the scores and heard the opinions: The team I saw against us were strong, smart and motivated; can anyone tell me if they've been like that for the duration of their time at the bottom and better teams have just don't allow them opportunities or if they came up another level for our game? If you take their recent reputation/form out of the equation, we had an entertaining scrap against a willing competitor, got jumped early and found a way to win, a powerful skill that will come in handy later.

I thought we were OK, without being great - I don't think we will be a dazzling exciting team for the moment, but it's certainly important to have strong foundations and system and that process is ongoing. Its good to see progress but it takes time and we should remember that.

Can anyone who could be bothered explain what happened in the centre square in the lead up to Cripps's first goal late in 1Q? Marshall had Crouch loose at his 7 o'clock with Crouch's man Shuey loose at his 6, Phillipou and his man on his 4 and Steele and Sheed at his 11.

The ball was bounced, Marshall ran too far into the centre and had to lean back to reach for the ball. Meanwhile, Williams was towering over him with an easy palm down to the space Shuey ran into then through to the other side of the circle, being chased too late by Phillipou, while Crouch stood still and Steele had to turn around to chase.

Is that just unfortunate bouncing, poor rucking by Marshall, poor roving by Crouch or what? All 3 of Pou, Crouch, and Steele were on the defensive side of their men but still let Shuey get space and momentum for an easy receive and run. Can someone explain how that happens?

 

[Mowman]

I just finished watching the replay after missing the game live, and honestly I could have written exactly what you wrote, point for point and the same goes for your following post.

I've said it already but Gresham is such a dynamic player, he might be a headache but he makes stuff happen and when he's on, he wins games for his club. I would still move him on, but only for a great deal: he's our Cyril.

I don't watch the Eagles at all except for when they play us, but I've seen the scores and heard the opinions: The team I saw against us were strong, smart and motivated; can anyone tell me if they've been like that for the duration of their time at the bottom and better teams have just don't allow them opportunities or if they came up another level for our game? If you take their recent reputation/form out of the equation, we had an entertaining scrap against a willing competitor, got jumped early and found a way to win, a powerful skill that will come in handy later.

I thought we were OK, without being great - I don't think we will be a dazzling exciting team for the moment, but it's certainly important to have strong foundations and system and that process is ongoing. Its good to see progress but it takes time and we should remember that.

Can anyone who could be bothered explain what happened in the centre square in the lead up to Cripps's first goal late in 1Q? Marshall had Crouch loose at his 7 o'clock with Crouch's man Shuey loose at his 6, Phillipou and his man on his 4 and Steele and Sheed at his 11.

The ball was bounced, Marshall ran too far into the centre and had to lean back to reach for the ball. Meanwhile, Williams was towering over him with an easy palm down to the space Shuey ran into then through to the other side of the circle, being chased too late by Phillipou, while Crouch stood still and Steele had to turn around to chase.

Is that just unfortunate bouncing, poor rucking by Marshall, poor roving by Crouch or what? All 3 of Pou, Crouch, and Steele were on the defensive side of their men but still let Shuey get space and momentum for an easy receive and run. Can someone explain how that happens?

Gresh is no Cyril
Not worthy of cleaning Cyril’s boots

 

[austinnn]

Gresh is no Cyril
Not worthy of cleaning Cyril’s boots

Closest we've got

 

[AirWinmar]

I know Jimmy is from Tassie, but the original post made it sound like he came via another afl club, rather than us drafting him - so was asking that question.

Surprised about Sincs though, thought he was a Saints supporter.

Sincs grandfather played for the Saints. I knew he went for another team, but he wanted to play for the Saints like his grandfather since he was young

 

[MordySaint]

Yes Gringo, Mac Pt is only a short walk from the CBD, a CBD that currently has very limited parking, a CBD that has significant traffic flow problems most of the time and where one breakdown/accident can gridlock the city for hours, so few are the access roads into and out of the city. Where would the fans park to walk to a stadium at Mac Pt, like just how far away? The entire Domain would have to be developed for car parking and can you imagine the level of support that would have??

There is no doubt a roofed stadium would provide the opportunity for a variety of performances the state currently does not have. That means it must be built properly, designed to be flexible for this variety and to be used by sports scientists, health professionals, academics, event organisers, etc all year round as tenants. That will take time and creativity and cost much more than forecast. Who pays the extra? Why has Andrew Dillon said, a couple of weeks ago, that there is no room for any adjustment of any of the terms? If the stadium doesn't happen on time and in that location there is no license. Why is Tas required to build a stadium in a timeframe that can't be met? What is the real agenda behind such a demand?

Now, I know that people always say there can be no renegotiation of anything until they need to renegotiate. Maybe the AFL will a few years down the track. But by that time a significant amount of work will have been done and unbreakable commitments made, and without a proper design process we'll end up with a stadium that does not suit the purpose and is cheap, nasty and inhospitable.

Our current demographic trends have resumed their "natural" course post covid. Our population remains relatively stable due to an older cohort moving here and our young continuing to leave. It may have something to do with boredom, but really it is lack of opportunity. Typically all island nations have similar issues and although we are not a nation we have the same advantages and disadvantages as do small island nations. We cover almost the same full spectrum of employment opportunities, but the number of jobs available simply can't absorb the numbers of younger employees seeking each type of employment. A stadium is not going to change this reality, other than at the margins for a few hundred people.

The government has lost two of its members, who now sit as independents, due to the lack of transparency of this deal, among a couple of others. They guaranteed supply and to not support a vote of no-confidence unless on significant, (and currently unknown) grounds, on the proviso the government release information from various departments, such as Treasury, provided to the government to guide its decision. The reports haven't been provided yet. The independents are increasingly vocal and angry. The government is in minority. Parliament is in winter recess until August. It appears the government will not release the information because it will show Treasury did not support the deal. Why else not provide it to the public?

So, Parliament will resume in August and, based on a fairly well established pattern of behavior for this government, will stick to its guns and fall over. We have the world's best electoral system here, called Hare -Clark, which is a proportional representative system for each of our five electorates. The next election also means we will have restored the numbers back to where they historically have been, that is, 7 members elected for each electorate, making a total of 35. Currently there are 25, so government at present only required 13 members from one party. No-one is sure what a restored house of 35 members will mean, other than to form government will require 18 members.

The electorate demographics indicate no party will get those numbers, not even close, so one of the two major parties will require the support of Green/independents. The Liberals have been in office here for more than a decade, so have probably run out of time. The Premier is a decent, honourable and principled bloke compared to most politicians, but he is head and shoulders above the vast majority of his colleagues. If he resigns there is a huge vacuum in that party and they are likely to lose, not gain, the seats necessary to form government. Ditto the Labor party. Excellent leader but very shallow below her.

In summary, expect an election sooner rather than later and for whoever forms government to bitterly resent the AFL's demands and want to renegotiate the terms. The AFL to resist, the stalemate alone will sink the deal. No team in Tassie as things currently stand.

I understand where you are coming from. In the past Tasmania has been poorly lead and just treated as a poor cousin of our northern states.

Times are changing, though ... we shouldn't let the past govern our future.

They have just appointed an ex-Woolies boss as the inaugural chair of the new Tasmania team.

https://www.themercury.com.au/sport/exwoolies-boss-grant-obrien-to-become-inaugural-chair-of-tasmanias-afl-team/news-story/9ebff227f21dd1e4fa7a5dde9ea73e7f

The tide is turning, more money and investment is finally being pushed into Tasmania. I see your area NW Tasmania just got a huge investment for a mega dairy which will bring more jobs and infrastructure to your beautiful area of Tasmania.

Log into Facebook

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Over 20K for this Facebook group, in favour of the stadium. Then 7K to a rep game on the weekend Tas vs Qld. Coincidentally coached by our own Mav Weller.

There is considerable drive for the new stadium, I think it will happen.

 

[The Punter]

Worth pointing out that the structural "move the magnets" change at half time was to get Phillipou out of the midfield. I just think a rest would do the boy good.

 

[Remboy]

ChatGPT got the result wrong, but at least it didn't bang on about the 80's.


View attachment 1729085



Then it ghosted me like a bitch when I destroyed it with facts and logic.

I might use that after our next game lol.

 

[Fehring]

Worth pointing out that the structural "move the magnets" change at half time was to get Phillipou out of the midfield. I just think a rest would do the boy good.

Hard agree. He looks slower and less dynamic than he did earlier in the season.

 

[phantom13]

I just finished watching the replay after missing the game live, and honestly I could have written exactly what you wrote, point for point and the same goes for your following post.

I've said it already but Gresham is such a dynamic player, he might be a headache but he makes stuff happen and when he's on, he wins games for his club. I would still move him on, but only for a great deal: he's our Cyril.

I don't watch the Eagles at all except for when they play us, but I've seen the scores and heard the opinions: The team I saw against us were strong, smart and motivated; can anyone tell me if they've been like that for the duration of their time at the bottom and better teams have just don't allow them opportunities or if they came up another level for our game? If you take their recent reputation/form out of the equation, we had an entertaining scrap against a willing competitor, got jumped early and found a way to win, a powerful skill that will come in handy later.

I thought we were OK, without being great - I don't think we will be a dazzling exciting team for the moment, but it's certainly important to have strong foundations and system and that process is ongoing. Its good to see progress but it takes time and we should remember that.

Can anyone who could be bothered explain what happened in the centre square in the lead up to Cripps's first goal late in 1Q? Marshall had Crouch loose at his 7 o'clock with Crouch's man Shuey loose at his 6, Phillipou and his man on his 4 and Steele and Sheed at his 11.

The ball was bounced, Marshall ran too far into the centre and had to lean back to reach for the ball. Meanwhile, Williams was towering over him with an easy palm down to the space Shuey ran into then through to the other side of the circle, being chased too late by Phillipou, while Crouch stood still and Steele had to turn around to chase.

Is that just unfortunate bouncing, poor rucking by Marshall, poor roving by Crouch or what? All 3 of Pou, Crouch, and Steele were on the defensive side of their men but still let Shuey get space and momentum for an easy receive and run. Can someone explain how that happens?

Ill only do general points cause i dont have specific answers.

The Eagles had some pep in their step this week (especially compared to the week prior where they genuinely gave up) but we should have been prepared for that. I knew (and i assume anyone with a half brain would have known) theyd fire all their shots early and if you can weather that storm they would lose motivation but also most of their senior players havent done a decent training block since 2020 so theyll run out of legs. When we kicked the first inside 20 seconds i thought "awesome, were on today and will break them early" but it seemed that it actually made our boys think it would be a cakewalk which leads into your second point...

Were all ball winners in contests, as in, no one seems to set up for any outcome other than that person winning the ball. It was evident in the Lions game and it was evident again against the Eagles. If you watch good teams they all have structure and shape at stoppages, we just lose ours, especially later in quarters, and everyone sags in to win the footy. It usually means we get the ball but its messy and a scrap kick forward is the best outcome, the more likely is the contest is halved or eeks out to where they have a triangle already set up and can get cleaner exits, worst case is what we saw with Shuey, twice. Space and clean lanes to carry the ball out. I always hate the "its under 12s stuff" but it really is pretty basic. You should have spacers, receivers and a sweeper. Structure so if you win the ball you have an out to make some space but also to force them to go backwards or sideways if they win it.

Now every team is gonna get the odd one get through that but it seems to happen ALOT with us.

 

[gringo2011]

I understand where you are coming from. In the past Tasmania has been poorly lead and just treated as a poor cousin of our northern states.

Times are changing, though ... we shouldn't let the past govern our future.

They have just appointed an ex-Woolies boss as the inaugural chair of the new Tasmania team.

https://www.themercury.com.au/sport/exwoolies-boss-grant-obrien-to-become-inaugural-chair-of-tasmanias-afl-team/news-story/9ebff227f21dd1e4fa7a5dde9ea73e7f

The tide is turning, more money and investment is finally being pushed into Tasmania. I see your area NW Tasmania just got a huge investment for a mega dairy which will bring more jobs and infrastructure to your beautiful area of Tasmania.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

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Over 20K for this Facebook group, in favour of the stadium. Then 7K to a rep game on the weekend Tas vs Qld. Coincidentally coached by our own Mav Weller.

There is considerable drive for the new stadium, I think it will happen.

You just have to build it then sort transport and other stuff around it. The MCG was a cow paddock once. I reckon it will be great for Hobart long term. It never gets cheaper waiting until later and if you half arse it now you'll just have to pay more later to fix it. MONA was like a crack with the defibrillator down there and these kind of spends generate money and energy. It sounds like a waste but these things usually end up a great. Hobart is a great little city and I reckon it will add heaps.

 

[gringo2011]

Ill only do general points cause i dont have specific answers.

The Eagles had some pep in their step this week (especially compared to the week prior where they genuinely gave up) but we should have been prepared for that. I knew (and i assume anyone with a half brain would have known) theyd fire all their shots early and if you can weather that storm they would lose motivation but also most of their senior players havent done a decent training block since 2020 so theyll run out of legs. When we kicked the first inside 20 seconds i thought "awesome, were on today and will break them early" but it seemed that it actually made our boys think it would be a cakewalk which leads into your second point...

Were all ball winners in contests, as in, no one seems to set up for any outcome other than that person winning the ball. It was evident in the Lions game and it was evident again against the Eagles. If you watch good teams they all have structure and shape at stoppages, we just lose ours, especially later in quarters, and everyone sags in to win the footy. It usually means we get the ball but its messy and a scrap kick forward is the best outcome, the more likely is the contest is halved or eeks out to where they have a triangle already set up and can get cleaner exits, worst case is what we saw with Shuey, twice. Space and clean lanes to carry the ball out. I always hate the "its under 12s stuff" but it really is pretty basic. You should have spacers, receivers and a sweeper. Structure so if you win the ball you have an out to make some space but also to force them to go backwards or sideways if they win it.

Now every team is gonna get the odd one get through that but it seems to happen ALOT with us.

I think sides set for us knowing that we are a bit soft and flaky. Of the top 8 sides we still haven't proven much and don't nail the coffin shut on sides. Collingwood have sides scared before they even turn up, Geelong, Sydney etc have a psychological advantage. Only a couple of seasons of hard fought respect building wins will erase that.

 

[gringo2011]

Hard agree. He looks slower and less dynamic than he did earlier in the season.

He was good last week and moving into the mids this week he looked a bit behind the speed of the game. When he went to the backline he held up well I thought.

 

[Fehring]

He was good last week and moving into the mids this week he looked a bit behind the speed of the game. When he went to the backline he held up well I thought.

Fair call, but we're not seeing those explosive moments we saw earlier in the season. I don't reckon you'd name him down back (I'd have Cordy replacing Battle, and I don't think he can fill Sinclair's role), he doesn't seem to be up to midfield just yet, and he's not dangerous up forward like he was earlier. I think a freshen up would be good.

 

[Premium]

Ill only do general points cause i dont have specific answers.

The Eagles had some pep in their step this week (especially compared to the week prior where they genuinely gave up) but we should have been prepared for that. I knew (and i assume anyone with a half brain would have known) theyd fire all their shots early and if you can weather that storm they would lose motivation but also most of their senior players havent done a decent training block since 2020 so theyll run out of legs. When we kicked the first inside 20 seconds i thought "awesome, were on today and will break them early" but it seemed that it actually made our boys think it would be a cakewalk which leads into your second point...

Were all ball winners in contests, as in, no one seems to set up for any outcome other than that person winning the ball. It was evident in the Lions game and it was evident again against the Eagles. If you watch good teams they all have structure and shape at stoppages, we just lose ours, especially later in quarters, and everyone sags in to win the footy. It usually means we get the ball but its messy and a scrap kick forward is the best outcome, the more likely is the contest is halved or eeks out to where they have a triangle already set up and can get cleaner exits, worst case is what we saw with Shuey, twice. Space and clean lanes to carry the ball out. I always hate the "its under 12s stuff" but it really is pretty basic. You should have spacers, receivers and a sweeper. Structure so if you win the ball you have an out to make some space but also to force them to go backwards or sideways if they win it.

Now every team is gonna get the odd one get through that but it seems to happen ALOT with us.

To me it's just comes down to our midfield , if our midfield was on top our structure would be so much different but when you only have one mid getting in the high 20s for disposals you are straight away behind the 8 ball - Sinclair needs to be swapped with Steele and the other midfielders should be Windhager , Steele , Owens , Phillipou , Gresham / rotating - but Marshall , Crouch and Sinclair being our main core.

Adjust accordingly as they are playing - but we can't just keep rolling with the same under performing mids.

 

[gringo2011]

Fair call, but we're not seeing those explosive moments we saw earlier in the season. I don't reckon you'd name him down back (I'd have Cordy replacing Battle, and I don't think he can fill Sinclair's role), he doesn't seem to be up to midfield just yet, and he's not dangerous up forward like he was earlier. I think a freshen up would be good.

What we invest now comes back in payoff later. I'd hold him in as long as we can. All we have in reserve is injury prone old guys and super raw kids.

 

[Circus]

I understand where you are coming from. In the past Tasmania has been poorly lead and just treated as a poor cousin of our northern states.

Times are changing, though ... we shouldn't let the past govern our future.

They have just appointed an ex-Woolies boss as the inaugural chair of the new Tasmania team.

https://www.themercury.com.au/sport/exwoolies-boss-grant-obrien-to-become-inaugural-chair-of-tasmanias-afl-team/news-story/9ebff227f21dd1e4fa7a5dde9ea73e7f

The tide is turning, more money and investment is finally being pushed into Tasmania. I see your area NW Tasmania just got a huge investment for a mega dairy which will bring more jobs and infrastructure to your beautiful area of Tasmania.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

Over 20K for this Facebook group, in favour of the stadium. Then 7K to a rep game on the weekend Tas vs Qld. Coincidentally coached by our own Mav Weller.

There is considerable drive for the new stadium, I think it will happen.

Hi Mordy, thanks for pointing these things out. I didn't really want to reply but feel I should.

First dairy farming. The money doesn't stay in Tas. Saputo is a major global organisation that originated in Canada as a private family business and now straddles the planet, just like McCains, also a private Canadian family company. Saputo has committed to the future of dairy farming in Aust and sees no alternative other than to concentrate in Vic and Tas, due to climate change. It is a smart long term vision driven entirely by facts and data and profit. Dairy production in Aust has fallen consistently for many years and so has the number of producers, i.e. farmers. We export less, import more and the balance of trades has altered, with no sign of it being reversed. All the other major dairy producers have similar strategies and approaches.

In Tas the prime dairy land, knowledge and skills is in the far NW, where the number of farm owners has been declining for a couple of decades due to two factors. Few farmer's offspring want to take on an increasingly complex farming operation that requires 7 days per week of relentless concentration and hard work. Second, there are major investment companies quite willing to pay good money to buy the farm and add it to their portfolio. Obviously, the size of the farm and herd and quality of equipment determines the price but $2, 3, or 4M is quite realistic for a normal farm. That enables the farmer to invest the money to pass to the kids or buy them a small business, whatever. But they're out of dairying, there is no intergenerational transfer and the big equity companies keep growing. Without some form of transfer from parents no young person can buy a normal farm anymore. Some go into beef production and keep the land, hence the Cape Grim Waygu brand, but they don't produce milk.

Naturally the corporations invest money and employees work the farms, (like any other employee without any equity in the business - a strange and alien experience for those with the ability to do this work) and their accountants ensure the minimum of taxation is paid and the profits go offshore. So all investments in dairy production must be looked at through those lenses, just like a new mine, etc. Editorial comment here: Venture capital doesn't increase the wealth of local communities compared with what is lost in the medium to long term.

An ex Woolies executive in charge of footy in Tas fills me with nothing other than fear and disappointment. I suppose price fixing skills in a national market duopoly must have something going for it but the relevance to a sporting club and code escapes me. Maybe an understanding of how to integrate with the AFL's market dominance could be useful.

Finally, the words "our own Mav Weller" should never be uttered by a sober man in daylight hours in a public place if reputation, credibility and self-respect are important. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, you've triggered my PTSD...............!!!

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

There's no sugar coating it. We just suck

 

[Mowman]

There's no sugar coating it. We just suck

Yep
Our skills are shocking
5 goals 5 in the last 3 quarters