Autopsy Round 16, 2023: West Coast v St.Kilda *WILKIE 100TH*

[Dr Spaceman]

Oh Dougal.has the ball he's going to turn it over

Dougal had his little brain fade(s) as we’ve come to expect (some are even predicting how often this will happen next week)

But overall I thought he was pretty solid.

And for someone who has copped a lot of criticism (probably justified) for always going the punch, it was encouraging to see him take 11 marks (including one beauty).

 

[Sully111]

Dougal had his little brain fade(s) as we’ve come to expect (some are even predicting how often this will happen next week)

But overall I thought he was pretty solid.

And for someone who has copped a lot of criticism (probably justified) for always going the punch, it was encouraging to see him take 11 marks (including one beauty).

Just noticed your avatar.


Gold.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I remember the Ross fan club spruiking ad nauseam over the pre season and leading up to say around the Essendon game (probably our peak for the season), that Ross is the master of getting the best out of players and he's improves players and is an excellent motivator and demands 100% effort 100% of the time.

Doesn't feel like any of that has been happening for the past 6-8 weeks or more.

Of course others may disagree, but it's very possible this list only has about 11 wins in its tank. The last 3 seasons tend to indicate that also.

The thing l have to remind myself often dispite wins or losses, is that for the last 10 years this side has had one singular constant which is mental weakness and or fragility. Without former warriors still around there's no one to pass the torch to the current lot and for their whole careers they've never been exposed to it. Hannebery was the closest thing most of them have ever seen. Just let that sink in for a moment.

Before they draft more kids, seek trades or Free Agents and before they piss away another generation of young men. They MUST fix the culture along with the mental strength and application of the entire playing group whom know nothing aside from mediocrity.

From what I'm observing l think that's what Ross is trying to do. It might be painful to watch but it was never gonna be any other way.

 

[George]

Just facts.

In 2000 we won 2 games.

19/22 sides scored 100+ against us.

We beat the 5th placed cats and the 14th placed power.

We led at 3/4 time by 31 points to the 7th placed dogs and lost.

Lost to the 4th placed Roos by 2 goals and led at half time by 15 points before getting run over on the double up

Led at 3/4 time to the runners up Melbourne before losing.

Led at 3/4 time before losing to the third placed blues.

games like yesterday happen every season.

Yes I remember it well, however I don't quite understand the comparison between a side that won the wooden spoon with 2.5 wins to a side that won 11 games last year?

I keep reiterating that it's more than just yesterdays result and the bad loss to Hawthorn, it's 8 weeks of poor form, a capitulation after a similar start last year, and 6-7 years of mental fadeout. We dish up the same dross year in, year out.

Why some feel the need to excuse such a s**t performance because "it happens every year" is odd, and we should demand better. Thankfully RTB isn't making excuses for them and can clearly see the issues.

 

[NoisyMinor]

Yes I remember it well, however I don't quite understand the comparison between a side that won the wooden spoon with 2.5 wins to a side that won 11 games last year?

I keep reiterating that it's more than just yesterdays result and the bad loss to Hawthorn, it's 8 weeks of poor form, a capitulation after a similar start last year, and 6-7 years of mental fadeout. We dish up the same dross year in, year out.

Why some feel the need to excuse such a s**t performance because "it happens every year" is odd, and we should demand better. Thankfully RTB isn't making excuses for them and can clearly see the issues.

 

[Cairnsman]

Of course others may disagree, but it's very possible this list only has about 11 wins in its tank. The last 3 seasons tend to indicate that also.

The thing l have to remind myself often dispite wins or losses, is that for the last 10 years this side has had one singular constant which is mental weakness and or fragility. Without former warriors still around there's no one to pass the torch to the current lot and for their whole careers they've never been exposed to it. Hannebery was the closest thing most of them have ever seen. Just let that sink in for a moment.

Before they draft more kids, seek trades or Free Agents and before they piss away another generation of young men. They MUST fix the culture along with the mental strength and application of the entire playing group whom know nothing aside from mediocrity.

From what I'm observing l think that's what Ross is trying to do. It might be painful to watch but it was never gonna be any other way.

I have done a deep dive into the weeds on this one and I think I’ve come up with a solution….THERMAL UNDERWEAR!

Think about it, we start seasons off well but as soon that nasty cold weather sets in for the long winter our boys turn into marshmallows. It has to be cold weather they don’t like, possible due to being the only team who can’t play without a roof.

I’ll get Ross’s ear immediately to discuss some designs for a range of winter playing thermals.

 

[gringo2011]

Similar analogy to a broken clock is right twice a day. Yeah he'll have some decent games but he has a lot of work to do to repair the damage he has caused this year. Costs us multiple goals every week and we need to look to move him on as soon as we can.

He's a whipping boy now, once you've been tarred no-one can see anything but the negative. I thought he was good when the game needed to be won. Like the rest of them, he was s**t when we were getting smashed but he was actually pretty good in a defence playing with Battle gone down and Coops and Phillipou helping out.

I was probably still bagging him because the campaigners had given me trauma watching the first half and he's usually the last one you remember doing something obviously stupid.

 

[gringo2011]

Of course others may disagree, but it's very possible this list only has about 11 wins in its tank. The last 3 seasons tend to indicate that also.

The thing l have to remind myself often dispite wins or losses, is that for the last 10 years this side has had one singular constant which is mental weakness and or fragility. Without former warriors still around there's no one to pass the torch to the current lot and for their whole careers they've never been exposed to it. Hannebery was the closest thing most of them have ever seen. Just let that sink in for a moment.

Before they draft more kids, seek trades or Free Agents and before they piss away another generation of young men. They MUST fix the culture along with the mental strength and application of the entire playing group whom know nothing aside from mediocrity.

From what I'm observing l think that's what Ross is trying to do. It might be painful to watch but it was never gonna be any other way.

Then again, the lack of players drafted and bonded by finals and going into battle together means that guys just show up for a pay cheque. Four guys have played over 150 games and of them only Billings and Ross were drafted to us. There is a good chance none are regular players next year. The guys that are the spiritual leaders at other clubs aren't there.

Even the guys just behind the 150 games mark are players like Steele, Jones, Crouch, Sinclair, Webster etc are scrappers who've played on the margins or ring ins. Hard to artificially create a culture from that. None of them have much to bind them to the club let alone love the jumper. Ross is probably the only one that has the continuity and most fans bag him so he probably hates the club and sees it as a job.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Then again, the lack of players drafted and bonded by finals and going into battle together means that guys just show up for a pay cheque. Four guys have played over 150 games and of them only Billings, Ross and Webster were drafted to us. There is a good chance that only Webster is a regular player next year. The guys that are the spiritual leaders at other clubs aren't there.

Even the guys just behind the 150 games mark are players like Steele, Jones, Crouch, Sinclair, Webster etc are scrappers who've played on the margins or ring ins. Hard to artificially create a culture from that. None of them have much to bind them to the club let alone love the jumper. Ross is probably the only one that has the continuity and most fans bag him so he probably hates the club and sees it as a job.

I doesn't help that's for sure.

 

[Sully111]

Brad Crouch zero votes from the coaches, 17 tackles, smothered West Coasts last set shot on goal when they were about 8 points down, busted his gut all day. “Hmmmm nah, not in the top 5”, cop that champ lol.

That's insane.

I noticed Ross gave props to Seb in his presser. Have to wonder where his head is at tbh.

 

[beside the seaside]

Dougal had his little brain fade(s) as we’ve come to expect (some are even predicting how often this will happen next week)

But overall I thought he was pretty solid.

And for someone who has copped a lot of criticism (probably justified) for always going the punch, it was encouraging to see him take 11 marks (including one beauty).

You're spot on. When he's got the confidence to mark the ball he becomes a very good player. His kicking is also good. It's his decision making that lets him down at times.

 

[BrutThough]

Brad Crouch zero votes from the coaches, 17 tackles, smothered West Coasts last set shot on goal when they were about 8 points down, busted his gut all day. “Hmmmm nah, not in the top 5”, cop that champ lol.

Steele getting one instead was a surprise.

 

[The Punter]

200cm tall defenders don't exactly grow on trees. Howard got in my votes on the weekend.

 

[sasaint]

I thought 22 WAFL players put on an excellent audition as they try to weasel their way in to St Kildas elite footy program. Shuey's 8 tackles in the first quarter may just have lifted him up to equal favorite status to replace Hannerbery along side Yeo's calf.

West Coast's tackle count (92) was the highest across the league this week, so they clearly came in with a view to creating a contest.

I know the midfield is struggling, but I would still like a bit more from Caminiti, Higgins and Phillipou.

Anywhooo, Melbourne's forward line has been struggling, time to help fix some of their problems.

The Saints specialise in playing underperforming teams back into form. Watch the Demons forwards get it all together this week.

 

[phantom13]

He's a whipping boy now, once you've been tarred no-one can see anything but the negative. I thought he was good when the game needed to be won. Like the rest of them, he was s**t when we were getting smashed but he was actually pretty good in a defence playing with Battle gone down and Coops and Phillipou helping out.

I was probably still bagging him because the campaigners had given me trauma watching the first half and he's usually the last one you remember doing something obviously stupid.

I think the bigger issue is that we know what a good Dougal is capable of and in reality if he just gets rid of the ******* idiotic brain fades he could be a really good player.

He has to learn and play to his limitations, ive been ******* banging on about this for ages but stop trying to sell candy, take the first option every time (which should be a handball to a sweeping good kick) or a long kick, dont let him kick out and stand him on the oppos best and biggest key forward.

If he plays his role and eliminates the brain fades id ******* love him.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I have done a deep dive into the weeds on this one and I think I’ve come up with a solution….THERMAL UNDERWEAR!

Think about it, we start seasons off well but as soon that nasty cold weather sets in for the long winter our boys turn into marshmallows. It has to be cold weather they don’t like, possible due to being the only team who can’t play without a roof.

I’ll get Ross’s ear immediately to discuss some designs for a range of winter playing thermals.

Except that we have won a third of our games away from home and Marvel?
Puts a little fly in your otherwise excellent idea

Seriously, I do think we are not used to playing in the elements.

 

[The Punter]

Wins this year

Home games at Docklands: 2
Away games at Docklands: 3
MCG: 1
Sydney: 2
Perth: 1

 

[Diehard Saint]

Then again, the lack of players drafted and bonded by finals and going into battle together means that guys just show up for a pay cheque. Four guys have played over 150 games and of them only Billings and Ross were drafted to us. There is a good chance none are regular players next year. The guys that are the spiritual leaders at other clubs aren't there.

Even the guys just behind the 150 games mark are players like Steele, Jones, Crouch, Sinclair, Webster etc are scrappers who've played on the margins or ring ins. Hard to artificially create a culture from that. None of them have much to bind them to the club let alone love the jumper. Ross is probably the only one that has the continuity and most fans bag him so he probably hates the club and sees it as a job.

Where was Webster from originally? I can’t remember.
Both Jones and Sincs are Saints supporters so I doubt that would be the case with them. Sincs wears #35 for heaven’s sake.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Wins this year

Home games at Docklands: 2
Away games at Docklands: 3
MCG: 1
Sydney: 2
Perth: 1

Not sure if that’s in response to my post above yours, but to clarify I meant the 3 games out of Melbourne not under a roof. Forgot about the MCG win.

 

[BucketsandBanger]

My point was that they’re inconsistent not that they’re s**t.

Sure, I thought they were good against us though we were just better.

 

[Fehring]

I assume it's already been posted but Dougal had 94.4% disposal efficiency. Best in the team, other than Battle who wasn't on the field long. In the last Q he must have had 4 rebound 50s. I expected him to shank every one of them, but he didn't. Don't know how many spoils he had, but I saw a lot of them, especially in the second half.

If you hate Dougal, absolutely fair enough, but sit this one out.

 

[BucketsandBanger]

I think I give them credit when they deserve it. In fact I think I've been criticised on here for being too positive in the past haha. I thought Sydney was a great win despite what others said. Great effort v Collingwood. Decent against Port but a bit of a balls up. I reckon I'm probably realistic, I don't turn a blind eye to bad form because of ladder position, if we play s**t we should be able to say it and when we play well the same.

I reckon being frustrated right now is completely normal.

Oh absolutely, just as Ross would say it’s never as bad as it seems or as good as it seems. Unless we completely fall off a cliff from here and miss finals (definitely a possibility) I think we will look back on the year as a success objectively. Especially if Mitchito wins the rising star.

 

[St Kilda Death]

Where was Webster from originally? I can’t remember.
Both Jones and Sincs are Saints supporters so I doubt that would be the case with them. Sincs wears #35 for heaven’s sake.

Sincs went for Carlton as a kid.
Pretty sure he goes for saints now though!

We drafted Jimmy from tassy.

 

[Cairnsman]

Except that we have won a third of our games away from home and Marvel?
Puts a little fly in your otherwise excellent idea

Seriously, I do think we are not used to playing in the elements.

I don’t know you at all in a personal sense so I won’t make any assumptions about what your year level for maths is however are you aware that a third of not very much is not very much?

But I’ll take you on your word with regards to ointments.

 

[St Kilda Death]

Then again, the lack of players drafted and bonded by finals and going into battle together means that guys just show up for a pay cheque. Four guys have played over 150 games and of them only Billings and Ross were drafted to us. There is a good chance none are regular players next year. The guys that are the spiritual leaders at other clubs aren't there.

Even the guys just behind the 150 games mark are players like Steele, Jones, Crouch, Sinclair, Webster etc are scrappers who've played on the margins or ring ins. Hard to artificially create a culture from that. None of them have much to bind them to the club let alone love the jumper. Ross is probably the only one that has the continuity and most fans bag him so he probably hates the club and sees it as a job.

For example gringo:

Round 16 2023,
Players over 150 games.

Eagles:
Hurn 329
Darling 269
Gaff 267
Shuey 245
Cripps 220
Sheed 153
Duggan 150
Each with a premiership medal, Shuey with a norm.

Saints:
Hill 226. Good player. Ring in, not a leader
Ross 194 (career Win/loss 80/112)
Sinclair 156 (69-86)
Crouch 151