Autopsy Round 16, 2023: West Coast v St.Kilda *WILKIE 100TH*

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Isn't Macquarie Point like 5 minutes walk from the CBD? I don't know much about public transport in Hobart or how people get around there but it looks amazing access compared to Bellerive.

I reckon the investment in a stadium will be huge. It sounds like a lot of money but you'll make it back in no time and get international acts over. The best time to build is alway 10 years ago but sometimes you just need to make some moves. Part of Hobart's charm is it's old world vibe but I know so many that left young because they found it boring.
Yes Gringo, Mac Pt is only a short walk from the CBD, a CBD that currently has very limited parking, a CBD that has significant traffic flow problems most of the time and where one breakdown/accident can gridlock the city for hours, so few are the access roads into and out of the city. Where would the fans park to walk to a stadium at Mac Pt, like just how far away? The entire Domain would have to be developed for car parking and can you imagine the level of support that would have??

There is no doubt a roofed stadium would provide the opportunity for a variety of performances the state currently does not have. That means it must be built properly, designed to be flexible for this variety and to be used by sports scientists, health professionals, academics, event organisers, etc all year round as tenants. That will take time and creativity and cost much more than forecast. Who pays the extra? Why has Andrew Dillon said, a couple of weeks ago, that there is no room for any adjustment of any of the terms? If the stadium doesn't happen on time and in that location there is no license. Why is Tas required to build a stadium in a timeframe that can't be met? What is the real agenda behind such a demand?

Now, I know that people always say there can be no renegotiation of anything until they need to renegotiate. Maybe the AFL will a few years down the track. But by that time a significant amount of work will have been done and unbreakable commitments made, and without a proper design process we'll end up with a stadium that does not suit the purpose and is cheap, nasty and inhospitable.

Our current demographic trends have resumed their "natural" course post covid. Our population remains relatively stable due to an older cohort moving here and our young continuing to leave. It may have something to do with boredom, but really it is lack of opportunity. Typically all island nations have similar issues and although we are not a nation we have the same advantages and disadvantages as do small island nations. We cover almost the same full spectrum of employment opportunities, but the number of jobs available simply can't absorb the numbers of younger employees seeking each type of employment. A stadium is not going to change this reality, other than at the margins for a few hundred people.

The government has lost two of its members, who now sit as independents, due to the lack of transparency of this deal, among a couple of others. They guaranteed supply and to not support a vote of no-confidence unless on significant, (and currently unknown) grounds, on the proviso the government release information from various departments, such as Treasury, provided to the government to guide its decision. The reports haven't been provided yet. The independents are increasingly vocal and angry. The government is in minority. Parliament is in winter recess until August. It appears the government will not release the information because it will show Treasury did not support the deal. Why else not provide it to the public?

So, Parliament will resume in August and, based on a fairly well established pattern of behavior for this government, will stick to its guns and fall over. We have the world's best electoral system here, called Hare -Clark, which is a proportional representative system for each of our five electorates. The next election also means we will have restored the numbers back to where they historically have been, that is, 7 members elected for each electorate, making a total of 35. Currently there are 25, so government at present only required 13 members from one party. No-one is sure what a restored house of 35 members will mean, other than to form government will require 18 members.

The electorate demographics indicate no party will get those numbers, not even close, so one of the two major parties will require the support of Green/independents. The Liberals have been in office here for more than a decade, so have probably run out of time. The Premier is a decent, honourable and principled bloke compared to most politicians, but he is head and shoulders above the vast majority of his colleagues. If he resigns there is a huge vacuum in that party and they are likely to lose, not gain, the seats necessary to form government. Ditto the Labor party. Excellent leader but very shallow below her.

In summary, expect an election sooner rather than later and for whoever forms government to bitterly resent the AFL's demands and want to renegotiate the terms. The AFL to resist, the stalemate alone will sink the deal. No team in Tassie as things currently stand.
 
Just facts.

In 2000 we won 2 games.

19/22 sides scored 100+ against us.

We beat the 5th placed cats and the 14th placed power.

We led at 3/4 time by 31 points to the 7th placed dogs and lost.

Lost to the 4th placed Roos by 2 goals and led at half time by 15 points before getting run over on the double up

Led at 3/4 time to the runners up Melbourne before losing.

Led at 3/4 time before losing to the third placed blues.

games like yesterday happen every season.

Yep we were pretty bad that year.
No where near West Coast level.
We ended with a percentage of 70.


They lost 4 games over 100. And it's only round 17.
We never lost 1.


There are only 2 teams that have not beaten West Coast by more than 40 points anywhere this year.
North and Us.

Just stating facts.


People can be concerned about form. Even when winning.
We aren't calling for a sacking.
We're just pointing out what we can see.

It seems that any form of criticism towards the team at present is a personal attack on Ross.
He's a big boy I think he can handle criticism on a footy forum.
 

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He's a whipping boy now, once you've been tarred no-one can see anything but the negative. I thought he was good when the game needed to be won. Like the rest of them, he was s**t when we were getting smashed but he was actually pretty good in a defence playing with Battle gone down and Coops and Phillipou helping out.

I was probably still bagging him because the campaigners had given me trauma watching the first half and he's usually the last one you remember doing something obviously stupid.
He's a whipping boy for good reason, he has had a terrible year and makes too many mistakes generally. If he stops gifting oppo goals he wouldnt be a whipping boy anymore. It's completely up to him.
 
This is probably not the right thread for this post but I need to say something about the Tassie team as it seems to crop up regarding future draft picks. I'm an old Tassie bloke with a fair grasp of our history and politics. We have a very long history of our politicians, some even otherwise relatively competent, doing completely crazy, loopy deals. We've done it again as I doubt the Tassie team will ever happen. The reason is very simple.

The deal our government, well, not the "government" as most of the governing MP's and probably most of the Cabinet don't seem to have seen it before the Premier signed it, is a dud. The AFL insisted that to have a team based in Tas we had to have a stadium with a roof, and it has to be at Macquarie Point. Both those conditions must be satisfied otherwise the license is null and void.

Mac Pt is prime real estate, in part being reclaimed land, that is used as a port, to store saw logs prior to shipment (true!!), host a major sewerage treatment plant and then has historic buildings with a variety of uses, such as top quality accommodation, university arts studios, tourist outlets, restaurants, etc. I've forgotten how many decades we've had very highly paid bureaucrats trying to develop a plan for the community use of the site. Many great ideas, lots of stupid ones and nada, zilch, nought. It is ideal for the right idea. But a stadium can't fit there unless some of the historic buildings go, the hill for the ANZAC cenotaph is dug into, or both and none of the essential community requirements are met. Plus the sewerage relocation hasn't happened for at least a decade because its many hundreds of millions and who pays for that?

And then how do the people come and go, how is any traffic movement possible other than ferries to the eastern shore? It would be so clogged up that there is absolutely no room for easy access other than walking. To and from where?

All developers claim its a 7-8 year process to design and build and it can't happen before 2030-31. But the AFL want 2028. Our Premier has agreed to it for $720M when it will cost at least $1.5B to do it properly.

Now I'm strongly in favour of a Tassie team and for a roofed stadium, but not a white elephant that will cripple our economy. (Even if it is highly successful it will probably cripple our economy for a decade until the benefits are realised.) I have no idea where the stadium should be built but there are alternative sites that would require different transport solutions. However, the AFL insists on these terms, our Premier has signed it and there it is.

If I was a conspiracy theorist I would suggest the AFL has insisted on such impossibly difficult terms that the dream team can't happen. But they can say it's our fault not theirs. Of course, if they put the kind of money into it as they've done for GWS or the Gold Coast and had realistic time frames and an appropriate site none of this would evident. But I'm not a conspiracy theorist so I'm buggered if I know why they've done it this way. AFL arrogance on one hand and Tasmanian political stupidity/desperation on the other?

And, I'm in the majority of Tasmanians about the stadium, not the team, which is really sad. So, don't worry about draft picks going to the Tassie Devils because it won't happen.
awesome post
 
my main beef with howard and gresham isn't so much the clangers but its the attitude. it's just gotta change. both should be leaders at the club instead of *in cracking the sads at every down turn.

compare the attitude of say owens to gresham. i'd argue gresham has more raw talent but his attitude stinks the majority of the time. stuff turned for gresham on the weekend when he started to switch on in a similar manner to owens and just continually attacked the play. when gresham cracks it, he retreats into his shell and its all over.

howards similar.

my issue with steele is he tends to go through the motions a bit when things arent going his way. it shouldnt have taken the eagles going up by near on 30 points before he started to really crack in.
 
Weird hill to die on but anyway haha what's random about it? 1955 is the last time a team had a worse percentage than this Eagles side. GWS in 2012 was worse but if you want to say that a bunch of teenagers is comparative in any way to a bunch of grown men then I don't think that's very fair. If we exclude them, like I openly admitted, then 1955 was worse. I didn't hide anything lol.

And of course I'm going to use examples that support my argument, that's what happens in a discussion 😂 look, you're even doing it yourself. Accusing me of shifting goal posts but then here you are rattling off an entire decade of results when from the start my comment was about the worst performance in a single season.

Defending our shithouse performance because the 2023 Eagles are the 2nd worst side since 1955 instead of the worst side isn't something for us to be happy about lol. It's atrocious.
I'm not dying on any hill, and plewase don't misunderstand me, I am not defending our performance - the last 6 weeks have been rubbish. I am simply stating that I don't believe the Eagles are the worst team of the past 60 years or whatever. The Eagles blow, but not anywhere near as badly as our 80's team - 5 wooden spoons in 6 years is next level ineptitude!!
 
Don't misunderstand me, I am not defending our performance - the last 6 weeks have been rubbish. I am simply stating that I don't believe the Eagles are the worst team of the past 60 years or whatever. The Eagles blow, but not anywhere near as badly as our 80's team - 5 wooden spoons in 6 years is next level ineptitude!!
Mate just read the post you've quoted so I don't have to keep explaining myself to you. It's tiring.
 
Sincs went for Carlton as a kid.
Pretty sure he goes for saints now though!

We drafted Jimmy from tassy.
I know Jimmy is from Tassie, but the original post made it sound like he came via another afl club, rather than us drafting him - so was asking that question.

Surprised about Sincs though, thought he was a Saints supporter.
 
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I don’t know you at all in a personal sense so I won’t make any assumptions about what your year level for maths is however are you aware that a third of not very much is not very much?

But I’ll take you on your word with regards to ointments.
Dont have time to go back to find your original post, but pretty sure you were talking about not being able to play at a ground with no roof?

I was just pointing out that a third of our 9 games won were played interstate, with no roof.

1/3 of 9 is 3.

No idea what you are talking about re ointments.
 
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I know Jimmy is from Tassie, but the original post made it sound like he came via another afl club, rather then us drafting him - so was asking that question.

Surprised about Sincs though, thought he was a Saints supporter.

Yeah the Sinclair situation can be confusing due to his family connections. Grew up barracking for the Blues but dreaming of playing for the Saints:


St Kilda midfielder Jack Sinclair opens up on how he almost walked away from football​

Jack Sinclair signed up for a business degree after missing the 2013 draft. Two years later he found himself on an AFL list with a little help from childhood friend Jack Billings. Now both are reaping the rewards.

6 min read
April 21, 2019 - 10:56AM

0 comments

St Kilda’s Jack Sinclair. Picture: Alex Coppel

St Kilda’s Jack Sinclair. Picture: Alex Coppel

St Kilda

Don't miss out on the headlines from St Kilda. Followed categories will be added to My News.
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It was 2007, and a young Jack Sinclair roamed the basketball courts of Kew East Primary.
The task for the Grade 6 class was simple — a primary school graduation yearbook to mark their passage to senior education, with the 12-year-olds asked to cast their mind to how their life might look a decade down the track.
“In 2017, I hope to be playing AFL for St Kilda or wicketkeeping for the Australian Cricket team,” Sinclair wrote.
DARK CLOUD: INSIDE FOOTY’S MENTAL HEALTH BATTLE
NEW COACH: HAWKS LEGEND SWOOPS ON SAINTS
MONEYBALL: WHICH NEW DEALS WILL GET DONE?

There’s still time for the second, although Tim Paine is doing a pretty solid job ahead of the upcoming World Cup and Ashes series, but Sinclair is literally living his childhood dream at Moorabbin.
His grandfather, Bill Gleeson, played 15 games for the Saints in 1955 and 1956, booting 11 goals and resulting in generations of dedicated St Kilda supporters.
Somewhere along the way, Sinclair drifted to become a Carlton barracker, “but still always wanted to play for St Kilda”.

“We had one of (Gleeson’s) old jumpers and a few photos of him and the team — my grandma kept like a little sort of scrapbook, as well,” Sinclair said.
“He died when I was pretty young but I’ve seen a few things.
St Kilda player Jack Sinclair as a child. Picture: Instagram

St Kilda player Jack Sinclair as a child. Picture: Instagram
“It’s all I’ve ever wanted to do. A lot of guys just want to play AFL, but this is the club that I’ve wanted to be at for my whole life. I do pinch myself. It’s pretty cool rocking up here every day and wearing number 35.”
Sinclair, 24, will “rock up” to Moorabbin for another two years after this week re-signing until the end of 2021.
“You never really feel that comfortable in the side, but I’m happy with the way it’s going at the moment,” he said.
“I’m playing a whole bunch of positions, which has been fun, so been thrown around forward, on the wing and a bit inside mid, so I’m still improving and I’d like to be a bit more consistent, but it’s coming along.
“It’s nice to know that I’ll be around for another couple of years.”
It wasn’t always seamless.
It was only a few years after his hopeful pre-teen declaration that the spark was snuffed.
High school years at Scotch College had brought sport aplenty — Kew Comets on Sundays alongside now-teammate Jack Billings, Kangaroo Luke McDonald and former Lion Hugh Beasley, basketball at Kew East and eventually senior cricket at Kew.
St Kilda player Jack Sinclair, North Melbourne's Luke McDonald and Saint Jack Billings pictured as kids. Picture: Instagram

St Kilda player Jack Sinclair, North Melbourne's Luke McDonald and Saint Jack Billings pictured as kids. Picture: Instagram
But by his final year, Sinclair felt just about done with the Sherrin, turning down an opportunity to showcase his wares in the state Under-18 competition and even entertained giving the round ball a crack.
“I didn’t really want to play footy in Year 12, to be honest. And I said no to Oakleigh to doing pre-season, because I was playing cricket,” he said.
“I was a bit over it … I was playing a lot of seconds in the second half of Year 11 and just wasn’t really enjoying footy, to be honest. I was thinking about playing soccer. My old man was like, ‘Just do what you want to do’ and everyone else was like, ‘You’re an idiot — play footy’.”
Former Collingwood player and ex-Scotch head of sport Barry Price wasn’t having a bar of that.
“He sat me down in his office and said, ‘You’re not playing soccer … I want to see you playing with your mates’,” Sinclair recalled.
“I said, ‘Whatever you say’ — he was a big figure. I had a pretty good year of school footy — I just wanted to go out there and have fun, and I did.”
Billings got drafted, at pick three. Having played just three TAC Cup games, Sinclair knew his dream could be over, but took up a business degree at Monash University and agreed to a year with Oakleigh Chargers as a 19-year-old.
It was the only season since Auskick, where they’d met “at the top oval in Victoria Park (in Kew)” aged about six, that the pair didn’t share a field.
St Kilda players Jack Billings and Jack Sinclair as teenagers. Picture: Instagram

St Kilda players Jack Billings and Jack Sinclair as teenagers. Picture: Instagram
A stint at Port Melbourne and a push to Saints recruiter Tony Elshaug by Billings had Sinclair in the mix, and he was offered a rookie spot in the 2015 rookie draft, finding comfort in sharing the locker room with his old schoolmate.
“It’s good to see him in the leadership group now,” Sinclair said of Billings.
“He’s really stepped up in that space and has taken his footy to another level too which is great to see. He made it so much more comfortable for me coming in as a young kid, having one of your best mates here.
“We’re probably more like brothers, really, than best friends. We don’t hang out all the time, but it’s just nice to have him there if I want to have a chat or whatever. It’s just really good to see what he’s been doing.”
Sinclair’s love of the world game hasn’t diminished, despite sticking with Australian rules.
He often wakes up in the early hours to watch Liverpool in action, and names Reds great Steven Gerrard as his favourite sportsman.
If he feels pressure in wearing the number of club great Robert Harvey, he doesn’t show it, though Sinclair admits it is “pretty cool” to see the Brownlow medallist and childhood hero’s name adorning his locker each day.
Many — including his teammates — were surprised by Champion Data anointing him as the Saints’ only “elite-ranked” player at the start of last season, and while he “copped a bit of stick” for the tag, Sinclair said he saw it as a valuable lesson.
Jack Sinclair has re-signed for another two seasons.   Picture: Alex Coppel.

Jack Sinclair has re-signed for another two seasons. Picture: Alex Coppel.
“If anything, it was a good message to the rest of the playing group that if you start the first five games in the VFL, you can still come in and have a good year,” he said.
“When Richo told the group, he said, ‘We’ve got one elite midfielder … who is it?’. And he went through and asked all the boys — ‘You have a guess’.
“He asked about 11 or 12 blokes and I think Jack Steele or Tim Membrey finally said me and I think everyone was pretty surprised. I copped a bit of stick, but it’s a good message that you might not have the perfect start to the year, but you can still come in and have a really good impact.”
‘SIMPLE’ SAINTS A WORK IN PROGRESS
Change has been the tonic at St Kilda this summer, though coach Alan Richardson admits things might have been taken a little too far.
The Saints have gone from second in the competition for disposals to 10th, with the drop in numbers a symptom of sending the ball long and forcing stoppages.
It has resulted in the team rocketing from last in the competition last year for stoppages to third.
It’s been a more “simple” Saints.
But Richardson has conceded the style – which has produced three wins in four rounds – might be too under-pace.
“It’s frustrating us a little bit too,” he said this week.
“We’re still coming to terms a little bit with what 6-6-6 is doing to rebound. We know it’s helping teams score from centre bounce, but in terms of rebound, the reality is you don’t have the free players – it’s hard to get overlap and that’s been a real strength of our game.
“We’re still working through that and we’re not deliberately wanting to be as slow and as deliberate as we have been.”
Sinclair credited the “positive” coaching staff and said players have been afforded “more licence to play in different positions and get more involved in the game”.
For Sinclair, that’s meant “being thrown around”, which he welcomed.
“We’ve got a whole bunch of guys being thrown around in the midfield, which keeps opposition teams guessing a bit,” he told the Herald Sun.
“I think in the past we’ve been a bit too one-dimensional, with the same sort of four guys playing inside mid but then now we’ve got Gresh (Jade Gresham) going through there a bit, Longy (Ben Long), Matty Parker.
“There’s been a lot of changes over the off-season in terms of game-plan and our whole system.”
 
Yes I remember it well, however I don't quite understand the comparison between a side that won the wooden spoon with 2.5 wins to a side that won 11 games last year?

I keep reiterating that it's more than just yesterdays result and the bad loss to Hawthorn, it's 8 weeks of poor form, a capitulation after a similar start last year, and 6-7 years of mental fadeout. We dish up the same dross year in, year out.

Why some feel the need to excuse such a s**t performance because "it happens every year" is odd, and we should demand better. Thankfully RTB isn't making excuses for them and can clearly see the issues.

Yep we were pretty bad that year.
No where near West Coast level.
We ended with a percentage of 70.


They lost 4 games over 100. And it's only round 17.
We never lost 1.


There are only 2 teams that have not beaten West Coast by more than 40 points anywhere this year.
North and Us.

Just stating facts.


People can be concerned about form. Even when winning.
We aren't calling for a sacking.
We're just pointing out what we can see.

It seems that any form of criticism towards the team at present is a personal attack on Ross.
He's a big boy I think he can handle criticism on a footy forum.
If that’s what you both have taken away. Then you have missed my point.

s**t teams. Across all seasons. Have games where they run better sides close. I chose a year in which we were the horrific side and we turned up for 3 quarters against numerous top sides.

Go back and read the threads. Both game day and post game.

People crying because it’s the eagles and this expectation they had of us stomping them.

We are a side that is currently struggling for 4 quarter performances -However a very realistic viewpoint is that we should have beaten hawthorn and Richmond in this horrific run we are having. If we had, We would actually be 4th but equal points with Brisbane and 8 points clear of Melbourne.

The amount of crying that doesn’t correlate to what we actually are is the frustrating thing here. We are 15 games into this tenure. We have had arguably 2 games where we were blown out. Adelaide in Adelaide and Brisbane - even then we were close to going on a run early in the last.

Every side has ups and downs. It isn’t ignored. It isn’t heads in the sand. But there wasn’t an expectation outside of let’s just explore this season.

A lot of people who share your feelings all have this expectations that we should be playing finals or think you can carry the first 5 weeks of the year for the entirety of the season with a young group.

None of that is realistic.

And there have been numerous calls that RTB was the wrong appointment. Go back and read them.

It was laughable on Sunday night. It’s laughable on Tuesday night and it will be laughable if Melbourne put us to the sword on Saturday night.
 

Yeah the Sinclair situation can be confusing due to his family connections. Grew up barracking for the Blues but dreaming of playing for the Saints:


St Kilda midfielder Jack Sinclair opens up on how he almost walked away from football​

Jack Sinclair signed up for a business degree after missing the 2013 draft. Two years later he found himself on an AFL list with a little help from childhood friend Jack Billings. Now both are reaping the rewards.

6 min read
April 21, 2019 - 10:56AM

0 comments

St Kilda’s Jack Sinclair. Picture: Alex Coppel

St Kilda’s Jack Sinclair. Picture: Alex Coppel

St Kilda

Don't miss out on the headlines from St Kilda. Followed categories will be added to My News.
Unfollow
It was 2007, and a young Jack Sinclair roamed the basketball courts of Kew East Primary.
The task for the Grade 6 class was simple — a primary school graduation yearbook to mark their passage to senior education, with the 12-year-olds asked to cast their mind to how their life might look a decade down the track.
“In 2017, I hope to be playing AFL for St Kilda or wicketkeeping for the Australian Cricket team,” Sinclair wrote.
DARK CLOUD: INSIDE FOOTY’S MENTAL HEALTH BATTLE
NEW COACH: HAWKS LEGEND SWOOPS ON SAINTS
MONEYBALL: WHICH NEW DEALS WILL GET DONE?

There’s still time for the second, although Tim Paine is doing a pretty solid job ahead of the upcoming World Cup and Ashes series, but Sinclair is literally living his childhood dream at Moorabbin.
His grandfather, Bill Gleeson, played 15 games for the Saints in 1955 and 1956, booting 11 goals and resulting in generations of dedicated St Kilda supporters.
Somewhere along the way, Sinclair drifted to become a Carlton barracker, “but still always wanted to play for St Kilda”.

“We had one of (Gleeson’s) old jumpers and a few photos of him and the team — my grandma kept like a little sort of scrapbook, as well,” Sinclair said.
“He died when I was pretty young but I’ve seen a few things.
St Kilda player Jack Sinclair as a child. Picture: Instagram

St Kilda player Jack Sinclair as a child. Picture: Instagram
“It’s all I’ve ever wanted to do. A lot of guys just want to play AFL, but this is the club that I’ve wanted to be at for my whole life. I do pinch myself. It’s pretty cool rocking up here every day and wearing number 35.”
Sinclair, 24, will “rock up” to Moorabbin for another two years after this week re-signing until the end of 2021.
“You never really feel that comfortable in the side, but I’m happy with the way it’s going at the moment,” he said.
“I’m playing a whole bunch of positions, which has been fun, so been thrown around forward, on the wing and a bit inside mid, so I’m still improving and I’d like to be a bit more consistent, but it’s coming along.
“It’s nice to know that I’ll be around for another couple of years.”
It wasn’t always seamless.
It was only a few years after his hopeful pre-teen declaration that the spark was snuffed.
High school years at Scotch College had brought sport aplenty — Kew Comets on Sundays alongside now-teammate Jack Billings, Kangaroo Luke McDonald and former Lion Hugh Beasley, basketball at Kew East and eventually senior cricket at Kew.
St Kilda player Jack Sinclair, North Melbourne's Luke McDonald and Saint Jack Billings pictured as kids. Picture: Instagram's Luke McDonald and Saint Jack Billings pictured as kids. Picture: Instagram

St Kilda player Jack Sinclair, North Melbourne's Luke McDonald and Saint Jack Billings pictured as kids. Picture: Instagram
But by his final year, Sinclair felt just about done with the Sherrin, turning down an opportunity to showcase his wares in the state Under-18 competition and even entertained giving the round ball a crack.
“I didn’t really want to play footy in Year 12, to be honest. And I said no to Oakleigh to doing pre-season, because I was playing cricket,” he said.
“I was a bit over it … I was playing a lot of seconds in the second half of Year 11 and just wasn’t really enjoying footy, to be honest. I was thinking about playing soccer. My old man was like, ‘Just do what you want to do’ and everyone else was like, ‘You’re an idiot — play footy’.”
Former Collingwood player and ex-Scotch head of sport Barry Price wasn’t having a bar of that.
“He sat me down in his office and said, ‘You’re not playing soccer … I want to see you playing with your mates’,” Sinclair recalled.
“I said, ‘Whatever you say’ — he was a big figure. I had a pretty good year of school footy — I just wanted to go out there and have fun, and I did.”
Billings got drafted, at pick three. Having played just three TAC Cup games, Sinclair knew his dream could be over, but took up a business degree at Monash University and agreed to a year with Oakleigh Chargers as a 19-year-old.
It was the only season since Auskick, where they’d met “at the top oval in Victoria Park (in Kew)” aged about six, that the pair didn’t share a field.
St Kilda players Jack Billings and Jack Sinclair as teenagers. Picture: Instagram

St Kilda players Jack Billings and Jack Sinclair as teenagers. Picture: Instagram
A stint at Port Melbourne and a push to Saints recruiter Tony Elshaug by Billings had Sinclair in the mix, and he was offered a rookie spot in the 2015 rookie draft, finding comfort in sharing the locker room with his old schoolmate.
“It’s good to see him in the leadership group now,” Sinclair said of Billings.
“He’s really stepped up in that space and has taken his footy to another level too which is great to see. He made it so much more comfortable for me coming in as a young kid, having one of your best mates here.
“We’re probably more like brothers, really, than best friends. We don’t hang out all the time, but it’s just nice to have him there if I want to have a chat or whatever. It’s just really good to see what he’s been doing.”
Sinclair’s love of the world game hasn’t diminished, despite sticking with Australian rules.
He often wakes up in the early hours to watch Liverpool in action, and names Reds great Steven Gerrard as his favourite sportsman.
If he feels pressure in wearing the number of club great Robert Harvey, he doesn’t show it, though Sinclair admits it is “pretty cool” to see the Brownlow medallist and childhood hero’s name adorning his locker each day.
Many — including his teammates — were surprised by Champion Data anointing him as the Saints’ only “elite-ranked” player at the start of last season, and while he “copped a bit of stick” for the tag, Sinclair said he saw it as a valuable lesson.
Jack Sinclair has re-signed for another two seasons. Picture: Alex Coppel.

Jack Sinclair has re-signed for another two seasons. Picture: Alex Coppel.
“If anything, it was a good message to the rest of the playing group that if you start the first five games in the VFL, you can still come in and have a good year,” he said.
“When Richo told the group, he said, ‘We’ve got one elite midfielder … who is it?’. And he went through and asked all the boys — ‘You have a guess’.
“He asked about 11 or 12 blokes and I think Jack Steele or Tim Membrey finally said me and I think everyone was pretty surprised. I copped a bit of stick, but it’s a good message that you might not have the perfect start to the year, but you can still come in and have a really good impact.”
‘SIMPLE’ SAINTS A WORK IN PROGRESS
Change has been the tonic at St Kilda this summer, though coach Alan Richardson admits things might have been taken a little too far.
The Saints have gone from second in the competition for disposals to 10th, with the drop in numbers a symptom of sending the ball long and forcing stoppages.
It has resulted in the team rocketing from last in the competition last year for stoppages to third.
It’s been a more “simple” Saints.
But Richardson has conceded the style – which has produced three wins in four rounds – might be too under-pace.
“It’s frustrating us a little bit too,” he said this week.
“We’re still coming to terms a little bit with what 6-6-6 is doing to rebound. We know it’s helping teams score from centre bounce, but in terms of rebound, the reality is you don’t have the free players – it’s hard to get overlap and that’s been a real strength of our game.
“We’re still working through that and we’re not deliberately wanting to be as slow and as deliberate as we have been.”
Sinclair credited the “positive” coaching staff and said players have been afforded “more licence to play in different positions and get more involved in the game”.
For Sinclair, that’s meant “being thrown around”, which he welcomed.
“We’ve got a whole bunch of guys being thrown around in the midfield, which keeps opposition teams guessing a bit,” he told the Herald Sun.
“I think in the past we’ve been a bit too one-dimensional, with the same sort of four guys playing inside mid but then now we’ve got Gresh (Jade Gresham) going through there a bit, Longy (Ben Long), Matty Parker.
“There’s been a lot of changes over the off-season in terms of game-plan and our whole system.”
Billings looks the same age as when he was seven. Incredible. 41645176.jpg
 

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If that’s what you both have taken away. Then you have missed my point.

s**t teams. Across all seasons. Have games where they run better sides close. I chose a year in which we were the horrific side and we turned up for 3 quarters against numerous top sides.

Go back and read the threads. Both game day and post game.

People crying because it’s the eagles and this expectation they had of us stomping them.

We are a side that is currently struggling for 4 quarter performances -However a very realistic viewpoint is that we should have beaten hawthorn and Richmond in this horrific run we are having. If we had, We would actually be 4th but equal points with Brisbane and 8 points clear of Melbourne.

The amount of crying that doesn’t correlate to what we actually are is the frustrating thing here. We are 15 games into this tenure. We have had arguably 2 games where we were blown out. Adelaide in Adelaide and Brisbane - even then we were close to going on a run early in the last.

Every side has ups and downs. It isn’t ignored. It isn’t heads in the sand. But there wasn’t an expectation outside of let’s just explore this season.

A lot of people who share your feelings all have this expectations that we should be playing finals or think you can carry the first 5 weeks of the year for the entirety of the season with a young group.

None of that is realistic.

And there have been numerous calls that RTB was the wrong appointment. Go back and read them.

It was laughable on Sunday night. It’s laughable on Tuesday night and it will be laughable if Melbourne put us to the sword on Saturday night.
Probably because those sides played very poorly against us

Just like we played very poorly on the weekend

We should be playing finals after the start We had, just like we should have last year before we completely s**t the bed.
 
If that’s what you both have taken away. Then you have missed my point.

s**t teams. Across all seasons. Have games where they run better sides close. I chose a year in which we were the horrific side and we turned up for 3 quarters against numerous top sides.

Go back and read the threads. Both game day and post game.

People crying because it’s the eagles and this expectation they had of us stomping them.

We are a side that is currently struggling for 4 quarter performances -However a very realistic viewpoint is that we should have beaten hawthorn and Richmond in this horrific run we are having. If we had, We would actually be 4th but equal points with Brisbane and 8 points clear of Melbourne.

The amount of crying that doesn’t correlate to what we actually are is the frustrating thing here. We are 15 games into this tenure. We have had arguably 2 games where we were blown out. Adelaide in Adelaide and Brisbane - even then we were close to going on a run early in the last.

Every side has ups and downs. It isn’t ignored. It isn’t heads in the sand. But there wasn’t an expectation outside of let’s just explore this season.

A lot of people who share your feelings all have this expectations that we should be playing finals or think you can carry the first 5 weeks of the year for the entirety of the season with a young group.

None of that is realistic.

And there have been numerous calls that RTB was the wrong appointment. Go back and read them.

It was laughable on Sunday night. It’s laughable on Tuesday night and it will be laughable if Melbourne put us to the sword on Saturday night.
I had no expectations of the year and have very openly said I wouldn’t care in the slightest if we finished 14th. I also didn’t call for Ross’ head (my concerns about “process” in his appointment aside he’s the best avaliable and imo the right man for the job).

None of that changes that we played like s**t against an historically s**t team and have every right to be disapponted and concerned about the direction we’re going in.
 
If that’s what you both have taken away. Then you have missed my point.

s**t teams. Across all seasons. Have games where they run better sides close. I chose a year in which we were the horrific side and we turned up for 3 quarters against numerous top sides.

Go back and read the threads. Both game day and post game.

People crying because it’s the eagles and this expectation they had of us stomping them.

We are a side that is currently struggling for 4 quarter performances -However a very realistic viewpoint is that we should have beaten hawthorn and Richmond in this horrific run we are having. If we had, We would actually be 4th but equal points with Brisbane and 8 points clear of Melbourne.

The amount of crying that doesn’t correlate to what we actually are is the frustrating thing here. We are 15 games into this tenure. We have had arguably 2 games where we were blown out. Adelaide in Adelaide and Brisbane - even then we were close to going on a run early in the last.

Every side has ups and downs. It isn’t ignored. It isn’t heads in the sand. But there wasn’t an expectation outside of let’s just explore this season.

A lot of people who share your feelings all have this expectations that we should be playing finals or think you can carry the first 5 weeks of the year for the entirety of the season with a young group.

None of that is realistic.

And there have been numerous calls that RTB was the wrong appointment. Go back and read them.

It was laughable on Sunday night. It’s laughable on Tuesday night and it will be laughable if Melbourne put us to the sword on Saturday night.
I can only speak for myself but the expectation comes from seeing what this list CAN produce. Nobody was saying we aren't a finals side when we were sitting 8-3 at the midpoint last year. That's the frustrating thing.

They have it in them so with an apparently much improved coaching staff I expected us to play finals- which we obviously still might, but if we keep picking and choosing when to show up in the final 8 rounds we'll be bounced out. Our last 8 weeks isn't finals type form and we have seen a majority of this list s**t the bed for several seasons so undoubtedly people are tired of it.

Games like that happen every season you're right but to us they happen multiple times a season for multiple seasons. It's time they got their act together, they are blowing golden opportunities to seriously contend for a premiership.
 
Where was Webster from originally? I can’t remember.
Both Jones and Sincs are Saints supporters so I doubt that would be the case with them. Sincs wears #35 for heaven’s sake.


Webster was drafted to the Saints from Tassie.
 
For example gringo:

Round 16 2023,
Players over 150 games.

Eagles:
Hurn 329
Darling 269
Gaff 267
Shuey 245
Cripps 220
Sheed 153
Duggan 150
Each with a premiership medal, Shuey with a norm.

Saints:
Hill 226. Good player. Ring in, not a leader
Ross 194 (career Win/loss 80/112)
Sinclair 156 (69-86)
Crouch 151


Yeah, they played a very experienced core. We have a really unusual list profile. You look at sides like Adelaide and they seem to have a couple of players in every age tier. We are all over the shop. We kind of defy logic that we are even competitive and vaguely cohesive.

Geelong and Collingwood have a great chemistry due to the amount of games together. If you were putting together a list to be as competitive as possible it wouldn't be based on our model but we get s**t done despite our limitations.
 
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We found a way to win, which is important. Yes it was ugly, we dug ourselves a massive hole but we managed to dig our way out of it and win.

Ross Lyon teams are rarely going to play amazing football. We got him in to instill a culture of winning and it seems we are on the way to doing that while playing a lot of kids.

Yes we need to play a lot better, yes our midfield is spluttering, but seriously imagine if we'd lost?

We are unearthing kids and in the hunt for finals. The year is a big success thus far, let's hope we can go on with it.
 
my main beef with howard and gresham isn't so much the clangers but its the attitude. it's just gotta change. both should be leaders at the club instead of *in cracking the sads at every down turn.

compare the attitude of say owens to gresham. i'd argue gresham has more raw talent but his attitude stinks the majority of the time. stuff turned for gresham on the weekend when he started to switch on in a similar manner to owens and just continually attacked the play. when gresham cracks it, he retreats into his shell and its all over.

howards similar.

my issue with steele is he tends to go through the motions a bit when things arent going his way. it shouldnt have taken the eagles going up by near on 30 points before he started to really crack in.
Steele needs to turn his form around or I would even consider moving him from the midfield.
The midfield is so important and if your not getting it out of the middle forget about any game plan you had.
Crouch has been our best midfielder by far and the rest have been way below average , Ross Lyon knows everything hinges on getting control of the midfield so having Crouch , Sinclair as our core should at least break even - I would forget about Ross he is bog ordinary at the best of times and currently Steele is in the same boat.
I would really keep Windhager as our other main midfielder with Owens and Gresham rotating.

Don't get me wrong Steele is a proven star but he is currently playing shocking and it is costing us , so I would give him a break and let him stew of it and bring him back when he has no supposed injury issues.

Our forward line is suffering because we are not getting the ball out of the middle and King going up to the wing to gets his hands on it , where he should be getting the ball delivered to him inside 50.
 
Just re-watching the second half. King's work up the ground was vital. Gresham was really desperate and played well.

West Coast were nowhere near as bad as I expected them to be.
That tall presence up on the wing/outside 50 is something we've been missing this season. Hopefully we continue with it.
 
He's a whipping boy now, once you've been tarred no-one can see anything but the negative. I thought he was good when the game needed to be won. Like the rest of them, he was s**t when we were getting smashed but he was actually pretty good in a defence playing with Battle gone down and Coops and Phillipou helping out.

I was probably still bagging him because the campaigners had given me trauma watching the first half and he's usually the last one you remember doing something obviously stupid.
0 clangers according the the AFL app, Marshall had 7 😳
 
Just re-watching the second half. King's work up the ground was vital. Gresham was really desperate and played well.

West Coast were nowhere near as bad as I expected them to be.
Yeh, fluffed some kicks and marks close to goal but didn't drop his head and got on his bike up the ground.
 

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