Autopsy Round 17, 2023: St.Kilda v Melbourne *STEELE 150TH*

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On the umpiring, can anyone testify that they've seen a "forceful contact below the knees" free kick or a "50m penalty for holding the player after they got rid of the ball so they can't get the next receive" paid this season before we copped both on Saturday night? Happens every year, Andrew Stephens again vitally involved.
 
On the umpiring, can anyone testify that they've seen a "forceful contact below the knees" free kick or a "50m penalty for holding the player after they got rid of the ball so they can't get the next receive" paid this season before we copped both on Saturday night? Happens every year, Andrew Stephens again vitally involved.


He's either corrupt or incompetent. They snuffed that game while it was still a cracking spectacle too. They put the whistle away for us then found a few really soft ones their way to ice any momentum.

It's not just against us, it's like they have no intuition as to when to let the game flow and when the tempo goes up they lose all perspective. They are a real negative this year, the extra umpire makes it more lottery than officiating. It's like an extra factor you have to play against rather than making 2 sides adhere to the rules.

There is more of a tax on lesser sides than ever, more ruining close contests, more uneven interpretation etc. It's been a massive fail bringing in more umpires. Real cane toad stuff.
 
He's either corrupt or incompetent. They snuffed that game while it was still a cracking spectacle too. They put the whistle away for us then found a few really soft ones their way to ice any momentum.

It's not just against us, it's like they have no intuition as to when to let the game flow and when the tempo goes up they lose all perspective. They are a real negative this year, the extra umpire makes it more lottery than officiating. It's like an extra factor you have to play against rather than making 2 sides adhere to the rules.

There is more of a tax on lesser sides than ever, more ruining close contests, more uneven interpretation etc. It's been a massive fail bringing in more umpires. Real cane toad stuff.
The free against Gresham when Owens marked was a joke. No read for the game whatsoever. They saved Melbourne's asses there as we were all over them. Ruined the spectacle as you say.
 

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It's farcical how much the protected zone rule has changed within the season. Every game you see players running past the mark and then running in and trying to catch them out when it's play on. The Petracca one against us is a great example but there are others when there isn't even an opposition player in the vicinity. It's seriously bizarre, it's like the umpires have been spooked about paying 50s.
It shocked me that Petracca was allowed to continue running through the zone on the "idea" he was attempting to leave. * off he was, he could run the opposite way but chose to run behind the player instead. Should have been an immediate 50.
On the umpiring, can anyone testify that they've seen a "forceful contact below the knees" free kick or a "50m penalty for holding the player after they got rid of the ball so they can't get the next receive" paid this season before we copped both on Saturday night? Happens every year, Andrew Stephens again vitally involved.
The one on Marshall really was there, you cant just hold onto a player even if its an awkard one where you are hanging onto them for support so I cant critisize that TOO much. The Owens one was a complete joke and an incorrect interpretation of that rule however. He was contesting the ball on the ground, not sliding into it which is what the rule is meant to stamp out (breaking knees/legs) and it was an absolute critical moment of the match as well.
The free against Gresham when Owens marked was a joke. No read for the game whatsoever. They saved Melbourne's asses there as we were all over them. Ruined the spectacle as you say.
Its frustrating because this s**t happens in almost every contest and as long as they both are on each other its play on. Is it techincally there? Yes. Is it fairly adjudicated? Absolutely not.
 
The one on Marshall really was there, you cant just hold onto a player even if its an awkard one where you are hanging onto them for support so I cant critisize that TOO much. The Owens one was a complete joke and an incorrect interpretation of that rule however. He was contesting the ball on the ground, not sliding into it which is what the rule is meant to stamp out (breaking knees/legs) and it was an absolute critical moment of the match as well.

Make no mistake - I was not making any suggestion that the free kicks weren't there. But neither example was the first time they'd happened in a game this year. We always seem more likely to be penalised for a free kick that hasn't been paid all year. Pay them all, or pay none of them.
 
He's either corrupt or incompetent. They snuffed that game while it was still a cracking spectacle too. They put the whistle away for us then found a few really soft ones their way to ice any momentum.

It's not just against us, it's like they have no intuition as to when to let the game flow and when the tempo goes up they lose all perspective. They are a real negative this year, the extra umpire makes it more lottery than officiating. It's like an extra factor you have to play against rather than making 2 sides adhere to the rules.

There is more of a tax on lesser sides than ever, more ruining close contests, more uneven interpretation etc. It's been a massive fail bringing in more umpires. Real cane toad stuff.
4th umpire just means a fourth different interpretation adding further confusion. 🙄
 
Make no mistake - I was not making any suggestion that the free kicks weren't there. But neither example was the first time they'd happened in a game this year. We always seem more likely to be penalised for a free kick that hasn't been paid all year. Pay them all, or pay none of them.


Yeah, that's the issue, nearly every contest has a potential free kick. The best umpires are able to work out which ones need to be pulled out. Late in that game they let the game go a lot more and they seemed to be letting the game flow. Then when we were coming back they found a few really technical ones that were probably there in the literal interpretation of the law but totally against the spirit of how that quarter was being adjudicated and against how they have interpreted it for most of the year.

Below the knees has really balanced out recently. When it first came in there were lots of ridiculous ones. Now if you are going for the ball and a player drops over you with their knees it's rarely called.
 
Mad St Kilda supporter and someone who likes to question decisions.

King is a prodigious talent and one of a kind really, whether his body can fulfill his potential is all I am disposing.

He will. He's got time yet.

Lets not assume or worry about the worst case scenario
 
Steele was no good the week before against a Shuey/Sheed/Hewett midfield so I don't think we can put his return to form down to the oppositions mids when they are no worse than the mids he's been struggling against.

Agreed

Jack lifted. It was obvious from the start of the game.
 
If May had used a fist instead and punched Cordy in the back of the head he would be looking at weeks for striking. It wasnt a hanger, it was using his knee to push his opponent under the ball, whether he intended to hit him in the head is up to debate (but lets not forget May is a collossal *head) but his action directly removed his opponent from the game.

You very rarely see speccies actually result in injury so its fine accept accidental impact (like Battle last week) but Mays action there really doesnt sit right with me.
Reason why Butler wasn't suspended, ok not really, the tackled player wasn't injured, but the discussion was you can't take accidents out of football.
The knee was accidental and it would be ridiculous for May to be cited let alone suspended.

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Reason why Butler wasn't suspended, ok not really, the tackled player wasn't injured, but the discussion was you can't take accidents out of football.
The knee was accidental and it would be ridiculous for May to be cited let alone suspended.

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I dont believe the knee was accidental in the slightest. He leads with it straight into his opponent to legaly push him under the ball and I firmly believe it was with the intent to hurt his opponent. Did he intend to concuss him? No not directly but that was just a bonus. May is not a clean player whose happy to punch his own team mates, why would he have any care for his opponent?
 
I dont believe the knee was accidental in the slightest. He leads with it straight into his opponent to legaly push him under the ball and I firmly believe it was with the intent to hurt his opponent. Did he intend to concuss him? No not directly but that was just a bonus. May is not a clean player whose happy to punch his own team mates, why would he have any care for his opponent?
I played footy years ago against teams where there were a couple of guys who went in with the cocked knees in marking contests with the intention of doing damage- it got a bit dirty at times.
 
I'm just exhausted from going to the same game of footy over and over again. I'd like us to be fortunate for once. Melbourne and Richmond and the Doggies and Geelong and Sydney have all managed it.

On the "kicking it to the opposition" meme, do we have a plan when we have our best forward line, let alone when in-game injuries mean we need to cobble it together? One could easily argue our best, most natural, three goal kickers on the list are King, Membrey and Higgins. Effectively none played Saturday night.

I thought Windhager did well in the backline, but we need him in the midfield.

Marshall's best game of the year, in part because of the lack of effect Gawn and Grundy had on the game.

NWM is a star already.

Among St Kilda players who have, during their time at the club, both played and missed at least 10 games, the five players with the biggest difference in win percentage are Mason Wood, Ryan Byrnes, Ben Paton, Tim Membrey and Josh Battle. The last three didn't play on the weekend.

Ross Lyon sure didn't know what to do with Cordy and Sharman there for a few minutes early. Both at either end at times.

Andrew Stephens remains the AFL's worst umpire.

And after all that, win the next three (very doable) and we'll be fine.
I'll raise your Andrew Stephens with a Nick Foote and he was doing it again on Sat night, pedantic to an extreme on one hand and utterly inconsistent on the other. Seems to hate us. Shows a real problem with recruiting umpires at this level, well most levels really, when such an ordinary umpire continually gets a gig.
 

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It shocked me that Petracca was allowed to continue running through the zone on the "idea" he was attempting to leave. * off he was, he could run the opposite way but chose to run behind the player instead. Should have been an immediate 50.

The one on Marshall really was there, you cant just hold onto a player even if its an awkard one where you are hanging onto them for support so I cant critisize that TOO much. The Owens one was a complete joke and an incorrect interpretation of that rule however. He was contesting the ball on the ground, not sliding into it which is what the rule is meant to stamp out (breaking knees/legs) and it was an absolute critical moment of the match as well.

Its frustrating because this s**t happens in almost every contest and as long as they both are on each other its play on. Is it techincally there? Yes. Is it fairly adjudicated? Absolutely not.
To me the Trac one was 1000000000% wrong.

Hes either in the protected zone and therefore can only be getting out, not impacting the play, or hes in the protected zone and its immediately 50. ******* absurd that wasnt 50, BUT they have done it a few times this year so it seems they just dont know how to consistently apply it in general.

The Gresh one in the marking contest was soft but there.

The 50 against Steele was stupid, especially when they DONT pay the Trac 50.

Umpiring is getting worse and worse year on year and i get and agree with them trying to minimise the abuse of umpires but they also should be accountable for errors.
 

AFLCA Champion Player of the Year votes | Round 17​

10 - Steven May
7 - Rowan Marshall
7 - Christian Petracca
4 - Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera
1 - Jack Steele
1 - Angus Brayshaw

St Kilda leaderboard​

57 - Jack Sinclair
38 - Callum Wilkie
37 - Rowan Marshall
25 - Mitch Owens
16 - Mason Wood
15 - Nasiah Waganeen-Milera
10 - Jack Higgins
9 - Bradley Hill
9 - Jack Steele
6 - Brad Crouch
2 - Mattaes Phillipou
2 - Seb Ross
2 - Josh Battle
1 - Dan Butler
1 - Ryan Byrnes
1 - Max King

 
To me the Trac one was 1000000000% wrong.

Hes either in the protected zone and therefore can only be getting out, not impacting the play, or hes in the protected zone and its immediately 50. ******* absurd that wasnt 50, BUT they have done it a few times this year so it seems they just dont know how to consistently apply it in general.

The Gresh one in the marking contest was soft but there.

The 50 against Steele was stupid, especially when they DONT pay the Trac 50.

Umpiring is getting worse and worse year on year and i get and agree with them trying to minimise the abuse of umpires but they also should be accountable for errors.
Any time a player manages to get someone "playing on" in the protected area it should be a 50 against them. If you are in a position to tackle then you were NOT moving out of the protected zone. Whats the ******* point of it if not to actually protect the player? The AFL are a bunch of absolute morons who bring in the stand rule to encourage this then fail to actually adjudicate it WITHIN THE RULES. Its not even a grey area like so much else in the sport.

This pisses me off more then any other of the rules as there is just no other interpretation possible.
 
Something kinda liberating about King being ruled out, we have looked a lot more dangerous and unpredictable when he's not played this year.

Does Campbell come in free up Marshall forward now? It would be a bit much to throw Hayes in after one VFL match.
 
Any time a player manages to get someone "playing on" in the protected area it should be a 50 against them. If you are in a position to tackle then you were NOT moving out of the protected zone. Whats the ******* point of it if not to actually protect the player? The AFL are a bunch of absolute morons who bring in the stand rule to encourage this then fail to actually adjudicate it WITHIN THE RULES. Its not even a grey area like so much else in the sport.

This pisses me off more then any other of the rules as there is just no other interpretation possible.


We seem to be the only club that regularly gets done by it. Often directly leading to opposition goals. Our guys are often not even off their line and get tackled and paid holding the ball. There were a couple on Saturday where the Melbourne players deviated off their line and the umpires wouldn't call them to play on. Our guys can be standing still and get called.
 
We seem to be the only club that regularly gets done by it. Often directly leading to opposition goals. Our guys are often not even off their line and get tackled and paid holding the ball. There were a couple on Saturday where the Melbourne players deviated off their line and the umpires wouldn't call them to play on. Our guys can be standing still and get called.
In the Brisbane game Howard got the 50 against him for Keidan Coleman NOT playing on, which to be fair he didn’t play on but Howard also didn’t encroach, he just trotted off aimlessly.

On the other hand Howard turns and Trac smothers him before the umpire calls play on and she’s all good.

******* ridiculous
 
Something kinda liberating about King being ruled out, we have looked a lot more dangerous and unpredictable when he's not played this year.

Does Campbell come in free up Marshall forward now? It would be a bit much to throw Hayes in after one VFL match.

I agree we have looked more dangerous and unpredictable but I also don't think that's in any way King's fault.

I think is just timing too, we were very much up and about early in the year, and if King was playing I would have backed him in to be kicking bags
 


Yet another grey area in our game.
Yet another example of Dougal being oblivious.

The stand rule is terrible. I presumed you couldn't impact on the play if you were in the process of exiting the protected zone, turns out that isn't true.
The game has too many rules, and far too many interpretations. People want to blame the umpires, but I'm convinced that nobody could be a competent umpire with the rulebook the AFL have collated. Far too many grey areas.
 

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