Autopsy Round 9, 2019: Collingwood v St.Kilda *Bruce 100th, Savage 150th, Young debut*

SaintsSeptember

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I agree. In a good team fellas like Newnes and Ross play roles like Andrew Thompson or Stephen Powell did in times past. Even Jack Steven shouldn't really be the guy you'd hang your hat on.

Newnes was doing a lot better earlier in the year, but Ross never really impresses me even when he gets BOG and 10 coaches points. I don't know why I cannot see the good elements of his game. I know he gets a lot of the ball and is involved in most chains, but his decision making with short range disposal timing sells his teammates into all sorts of trouble and his long field kicking is rushed and if I had to guess I would say sub 50% find a teammate cleanly, either off target or slow and loopy making intended recipient a sitting duck for an oppo contested possession.

He is one of the fewer players we have whose market value is probably higher than his internal value to the team, so as good as he probably is, I would advocate getting top price for him, either first rd dp or trade in young player with more promise, not Zac Jones, someone a bit classier.

But I wanted Bruce, Newnes and Lonie traded last year, not sure I should be voicing my opinion.
You have it wrong Austinn.
Can't trade Bruce, we don't have enough others who can play his role. Last year he hardly played.
We could trade Newne's this year , but he was too out of form last year, we'd have got chicken feed.
Same with Lonie, except he's injured now.

You need to trade your car when its NOT blowing blue smoke.
 

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SaintsSeptember

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What concerns me is not necessarily that we have better or worse players than our opposition, it is the question of whether we have - and whether we are able to - maximise the potential of our young players inside their first 50 games.

Most of our players have played between 0-100 games, many are still at a stage we should consider formative; their equivalents in other teams seem to be developing better.

Is that because they were better players to begin with?
Is it because they are in stronger teams, giving them less pressure and the ability to learn their chops with a solid structure around them?
Is it because we have not been, until the pre-season just past, demanding enough in terms of standards and effort in training?
Is it because we just have or had the wrong coaches or outdated coaches?
Is it because of our poor 2nds team situation and our selection strategy?
Is it simply because the team is losing?

I remarked last year that Nick Coffield, then a first year player, seemed very upset after each loss, whereas the older more experienced Saints around him seemed to just casually brush it off. I despaired that after some time he himself would develop a cavalier reaction to failure and stagnation after some time in this environment. Has this come to be? (just to be clear, I'm usuing Coff as an example, not specifically targetting him; are our young players being conditioned to stagnate and expect mediocre results?)

Oh for the days when our young players had Rob Harvey, Stewie Loewe, Max Hudgeton, Nathan Burke, Lenny Hayes, etc to play next to and train next to and feed off.

I am really hoping our new coaching team has a vision for the long term.

Change is already happening but I wish it was a little faster.
It was amazing how many opposition supporters thought Hudgeton was one of the worst footballers. I guess he probably was sort of, but not many people could kick goals on him. I think David Neitz had his number though.
 

Barrels

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There's no way I'm reading back over my crap to check if it has been edited...
You’ve clearly missed these little things called “notifications”, which when clicked upon, often take you back to things you posted.

Check the top of your screen.
 

kernelT

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You’ve clearly missed these little things called “notifications”, which when clicked upon, often take you back to things you posted.

Check the top of your screen.
I was only joking man… FWIW I don't like being edited much either, used to happen all the time with a mod that is no longer on here.

George I like messing with you a bit, but you do a good job, so thanks…
 

Circus

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I often enjoy reading posts on this site, sometimes its very amusing and some of you are clever buggers. However, after a loss such as against the Pies some of you seem to lose all perspective about where we are at and just how much it takes to build a strong, consistent team. It takes years to come from where we've been!!

I'm as frustrated as anyone here that we are in this situation, but that's where we are. Our coach may not be our future coach, I can't tell because I'mnot in the inner sanctum. All I know is that for us to be consistently competitive this year we needed all of our best players at their best and with a lot of improvement from younger players. We have our core of best, most influential players not having played a single game or only having played a few. We have had incredible contributions from some who had never played at AFL level before, or with only a handful of games, or in entirely new roles. I don't have to name them because you know who they are.

We also have a core playing group who have been inconsistent. They are under huge pressure to lift above and beyond what most of them are capable of. They simply can't always do it for long enough each game to win against the best, that is the best, teams going around. Its just not realistic.

If we had kicked goals in our dominant second quarter against Collingwood and gone in 4 goals up at half time it would have been a fair reflection of how well we had played. But I don't think it would have been enough. Even if we had been able to lead at three quarter time by a couple of goals their overall higher calibre footballers most likely would have won the game by a couple of goals.

Would such a loss been regarded a a miserable failure by some of you posters?? Not for me. I would have loved a win and not lost more bets against some Pies mates. But it wasn't as likely as a loss. Nevertheless I still backed my Saints because that's what I do.

Instead of goals we kicked points in the second term. They played their guts out and the pressure of "must have" goals is too much for some of the usual suspects, so they go in at half time knowing they must continue that level of play for another half to be about level. That's an awful lot of pressure. By that stage the Pies knew they could win and our blokes knew it too!! There's no dishonour in that.

If we continue to play as we have for most games this year and the burden on the current team is eased slightly by returning players we will win more games. We should finish around 10th or so. We may then be able to recruit the one or two more midfielders who could make a big difference. That is what I expect our club thinks is realistic and what their whole approach is based on. We can be a finals team next year, with an ounce of luck.

So, please some of you long suffering fellow Sainters don't eat our own, don't heap more pain on each other and the players in these fora when it just doesn't help a single bloody thing!!
 

Mat Mann

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You think coaches see 93% and say , nah we cant drop him lol
So if a bloke gets 3 kicks , he kicks them 15 mtrs and our bloke marks it, he is going at 100% , He must be a superstar
And then you see Newnes , Seb and others get it 30 times and either miss targets completely or just bomb it long to no advantage (Vs GWS). Both went below 50% de. And not a tenth of the heat that DMac is getting. Our defence had been absolutely amazing this year considering we had Carlisle Roberton Webster and Geary out of our best back 6. Look at the real issues which is the midfield, poor decision makers and disposers of the ball. Period. It’s not their fault, bad recruiting has put us in this position, ever our best mid in Stuv is an average kick at best, fix the mids and the rest get better. Instantly.
 

CaptainRisky

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And then you see Newnes , Seb and others get it 30 times and either miss targets completely or just bomb it long to no advantage (Vs GWS). Both went below 50% de. And not a tenth of the heat that DMac is getting. Our defence had been absolutely amazing this year considering we had Carlisle Roberton Webster and Geary out of our best back 6. Look at the real issues which is the midfield, poor decision makers and disposers of the ball. Period. It’s not their fault, bad recruiting has put us in this position, ever our best mid in Stuv is an average kick at best, fix the mids and the rest get better. Instantly.
Mat , yep you are correct although Newnes has been getting heat from me and the problem is we have no one to replace Seb with unlike our back line , we have plenty of spares for the back half even with our current injury list So Dmac out White in
 

Indie Rock

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Sounds like we have plenty of cap space, would be okay with paying Billings slight overs because of that.

I'm sure JB wants team success so wouldn't be making demands that would compromise that and also within the group I think he would be identified as an elite talent so it hopefully wouldn't cause any internal problems if he got a significant rise.

He's in and out of games because we lack the inside mid quality to get him the ball often enough / or with quality disposals. If you put Gaff in our side he would be more inconsistent like Billings as he is not regularly getting fed the ball by a quality midfield group.

Billings would go to a team with a stronger midfield and be AA IMO.
 

t_94

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Sounds like we have plenty of cap space, would be okay with paying Billings slight overs because of that.

I'm sure JB wants team success so wouldn't be making demands that would compromise that and also within the group I think he would be identified as an elite talent so it hopefully wouldn't cause any internal problems if he got a significant rise.

He's in and out of games because we lack the inside mid quality to get him the ball often enough / or with quality disposals. If you put Gaff in our side he would be more inconsistent like Billings as he is not regularly getting fed the ball by a quality midfield group.

Billings would go to a team with a stronger midfield and be AA IMO.
He wouldn't be far off All Australian this year imo. Been torched on here for poor previous performances, but people seem to gloss over his good games. He's averaging 27 touches a game. My only criticism of him is he should hit the scoreboard a touch more often to be a truly damaging wing / outside midfielder.
 

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bird_man

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He wouldn't be far off All Australian this year imo. Been torched on here for poor previous performances, but people seem to gloss over his good games. He's averaging 27 touches a game. My only criticism of him is he should hit the scoreboard a touch more often to be a truly damaging wing / outside midfielder.
Been really good and really consistent this year, but is just lacking those real dominant games to get him into AA side.

Really hope he can have a few massive games in the next few weeks to put his name up.
 

BrutThough

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Been really good and really consistent this year, but is just lacking those real dominant games to get him into AA side.

Really hope he can have a few massive games in the next few weeks to put his name up.
If he can end the season with some dominant performances in wins, he will be right in the conversation.
Consistent start to the year is important but they generally out more stock into the 2nd half of the season since is fresher in mind.
 

Premium

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Sounds like we have plenty of cap space, would be okay with paying Billings slight overs because of that.

I'm sure JB wants team success so wouldn't be making demands that would compromise that and also within the group I think he would be identified as an elite talent so it hopefully wouldn't cause any internal problems if he got a significant rise.

He's in and out of games because we lack the inside mid quality to get him the ball often enough / or with quality disposals. If you put Gaff in our side he would be more inconsistent like Billings as he is not regularly getting fed the ball by a quality midfield group.

Billings would go to a team with a stronger midfield and be AA IMO.
So true Indie
 
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