Science vs the right wing

[HairyO]

You're mostly correct on the first two, but CSG? Prove it. It's known that fracking contaminates the groundwater of prime agricultural land, and can contaminate the drinking water supply.

Fracking Can Contaminate Drinking Water

It took nearly a decade, but former EPA scientist Dominic DiGiulio has proved that fracking has polluted groundwater in Wyoming

www.scientificamerican.com

Can.

Nuclear reactors can melt. But only if safety and science are ignored.

CSG is the same.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

There are always risks but they can be mitigated. And requires oversight.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Can.

Nuclear reactors can melt. But only if safety and science are ignored.

CSG is the same.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

There are always risks but they can be mitigated. And requires oversight.

The issue is how common those risks are, and whether the potential loss is worth the battle. There's a reason few nuclear plants are being constructed anywhere in the world these days, partly due to the capital cost, but also due to the potential liability (and resultant insurance costs) of disaster being too much for private businesses to handle, so it ends up being mostly government projects. And there are alternatives that don't have that potential liability, so they're chosen instead.

The potential loss to society from leakage in CSG and fracking may be lower, but it is significant, particularly if it has the potential to affect drinking water supplies. By what I've read, those leakages are pretty common compared to other industrial risks like rail disasters or explosions. So I have a hard time believing they are safe.

 

[HairyO]

The issue is how common those risks are, and whether the potential loss is worth the battle. There's a reason few nuclear plants are being constructed anywhere in the world these days, partly due to the capital cost, but also due to the potential liability (and resultant insurance costs) of disaster being too much for private businesses to handle, so it ends up being mostly government projects. And there are alternatives that don't have that potential liability, so they're chosen instead.

The potential loss to society from leakage in CSG and fracking may be lower, but it is significant, particularly if it has the potential to affect drinking water supplies. By what I've read, those leakages are pretty common compared to other industrial risks like rail disasters or explosions. So I have a hard time believing they are safe.

Yet our chief scientist in NSW said it can be safe here under set conditions.

Similar findings in other countries too.

Disagreements beyond this point move to politics rather than science. Much like nuclear.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Yet our chief scientist in NSW said it can be safe here under set conditions.

Yes. She also said "it is inevitable that the CSG industry will have some unintended consequences, including as the result of accidents, human error, and natural disasters". So even she says the risks aren't zero, in fact there will inevitably be accidents and environmental consequences. We know what those consequences look like. Claiming that it's settled as being safe is an exaggeration.

Disagreements beyond this point move to politics rather than science. Much like nuclear.

With both CSG and nuclear there are legitimate concerns with the process and the potential risks. Both must be very carefully managed due to the potential human impact. I would agree that a blanket moratorium on either technology without any further discussion would be about politics rather than science, but debate with regards to the benefits and risks is absolutely necessary. Claiming any disagreement over the conditions and potential accidents is about politics rather than science is quite an extreme position to take.

 

[truedemon]

I'm a climate change doomsayer?

I'm not a climate change Denier, but i'm also pretty up front that we can't achieve much with Australia's environmental policy and our overall level of emissions.

Ships: Responsible for 3% of global emissions. ( apparently no country associated with this - 3 times as much CO2 as Australia ).
Horribly inefficient things that could easily be made a lot better if someone made them do it.


a) Heating/Electricity 25% of global emissions.
b) Agriculture , Forestry and Land Use : 24%
c) Industry 21%
d) Transport 14%

I'd suggest fixing a) before buying a tesla(d) and using a) to charge it.

our emissions are dropping one of the only few countries that is and thats including those bush fires & mining opertions, digging up all that nickel, copper, lithium, cobolt, steel, iron ore ALL PRUDUCTS used to manufactore turbines, solar panels, batteries & so on

Australia keeps doing our part yeasrly meeting our target whilst china continues to go the opposite way whilst we get lectured and nothing is said of them!

they are our 30% or the worlds total and rapidly climbing and it goes on ignored
do the maths

 

[truedemon]

On jan 29 who declared covid19 a public health emergency of international concern.

jan 28th scomo closed australias borders

as had jacinta ardern a day or so before that.

on march 12 dickhead trump was telling americans that it was just the flu.

Thats two months later you plonker -two months where the head of the country - did f#^^ all.

It wasnt the heads of our states closed our borders to the world it was the pm.

trump was fine being a racist pos and closing the border to arab countries that didnt have a trump tower.

jeezus h christ how folk deepthroat that moronand his perpetual lying has me f##%}%

trump was one of the first to close a countries borders despite WHO saying it was ok to leave them open despite WHO knowing and covering the virus up with china since november 2019

most of the deaths have been in democratic run states not replication?
why
how did this happen to mainly those states?
how is this trumps fault. i mean the republican run states managed to control things far better despite having far relaxing laws and keeping some entertainment venues open whre as the democratic run states went in to strict lock down!


mean while lets just forget about what china did to the world and blame trump!
like all things lift just blame others for own incompetence!
#orangemanbad

 

[kranky al]

trump was one of the first to close a countries borders despite WHO saying it was ok to leave them open despite WHO knowing and covering the virus up with china since november 2019

most of the deaths have been in democratic run states not replication?
why
how did this happen to mainly those states?
how is this trumps fault. i mean the republican run states managed to control things far better despite having far relaxing laws and keeping some entertainment venues open whre as the democratic run states went in to strict lock down!


mean while lets just forget about what china did to the world and blame trump!
like all things lift just blame others for own incompetence!
#orangemanbad

Trump didnt close the borders you mouth breather.

trump stopped chinese people coming in - did nothing to quarantine american or other nationalities coming in with no quarantine.

almost like he thought americans were too smart to catch it.

as for your childish rant about who - check the dates

who declared a pheic on january 29

trump tweeted it was just a flu two months later on march 12

in that two months we had closed the borders to every single human being with a 14 day quarantine.

two months mate -actually 70 something days after and dickhead trump is still calling it the flu.

 

[kranky al]

Maybe they are testing more.
I doubt that a virus gives a sh*t if the state government is leaning one way or the other.

Actually got more to do with high density living and low.

the higher density the city the worse an infectious disease hits - people in apartment blocks sharing lifts and corridors spread it easily where in the republican regions have lower density living.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

our emissions are dropping one of the only few countries that is and thats including those bush fires & mining opertions, digging up all that nickel, copper, lithium, cobolt, steel, iron ore ALL PRUDUCTS used to manufactore turbines, solar panels, batteries & so on

Australia keeps doing our part yeasrly meeting our target whilst china continues to go the opposite way whilst we get lectured and nothing is said of them!

they are our 30% or the worlds total and rapidly climbing and it goes on ignored
do the maths

Our emissions are practically irrelevant.
We could double them or halve them and it will not affect the rate of global warming with any significance.\

 

[kranky al]

Our emissions are practically irrelevant.
We could double them or halve them and it will not affect the rate of global warming with any significance.\

What about our exported emissions?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What about our exported emissions?

Yeaaaaah.
Very important we don't burn that coal. But we can ship it offshore, surely those good people who buy it won't actually....burn..it.

 

[kranky al]

Yeaaaaah.
Very important we don't burn that coal. But we can ship it offshore, surely those good people who buy it won't actually....burn..it.

Pretty sure if you sell someone a gun and they say they are going to kill someone with it and you go through with the sale - you dont get to say - oh but i only fired my gun in the back paddock....

 

[truedemon]

Pretty sure if you sell someone a gun and they say they are going to kill someone with it and you go through with the sale - you dont get to say - oh but i only fired my gun in the back paddock....

gotta love how Australia one of those countries lowering our emissions will be punished whilse other countries with rising omittions & will just continue to emit!

and you cant pick up in what is wrong with this!

talk about gullable! the left is the barometer of what a stupid society looks like

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Pretty sure if you sell someone a gun and they say they are going to kill someone with it and you go through with the sale - you dont get to say - oh but i only fired my gun in the back paddock....

BUT:
You can't count it twice .
You can count it where the carbon is sourced, in which case the Middle east will be blamed , and they will show us their middle finger.
You can count it where its emitted, which will make China look bad while they are churning out all the disposable crap we buy.
You can try to assign a carbon value to every item you buy and add it to direct fuel and emissions....which is kind of really complicated.

 

[HairyO]

What about our exported emissions?

Those would be counted in the countries where the fuel is burned. Surely?

Or is double counting the only way you can make scary numbers?

 

[kranky al]

Those would be counted in the countries where the fuel is burned. Surely?

Or is double counting the only way you can make scary numbers?

No its pretty simple enabling though

we have the power to leave a shitload of co2 in the ground.

 

[HairyO]

No its pretty simple enabling though

we have the power to leave a shitload of co2 in the ground.

If we stopped mining, would China give up on manufacturing? Or would they just pay a little more from another country who arent as good at mining as us?

 

[kranky al]

If we stopped mining, would China give up on manufacturing? Or would they just pay a little more from another country who arent as good at mining as us?

Or could we use our f}#}% noggins - develop hydrogen smelting, use our limitless desert areas to create solar / hydrogen generators. Start green steel hydrogen smelting plants in vietnam and thailand - diversify out of being owned by china - start creating value adding to just digging holes

Or we could just sit there like :

 

[HairyO]

Or could we use our f}#}% noggins - develop hydrogen smelting, use our limitless desert areas to create solar / hydrogen generators. Start green steel hydrogen smelting plants in vietnam and thailand - diversify out of being owned by china - start creating value adding to just digging holes

Or we could just sit there like :

View attachment 898989

Go bankrupt you mean.

 

[kranky al]

Go bankrupt you mean.

Blokes like you would have us still running around in horse and buggies.

 

[HairyO]

Blokes like you would have us still running around in horse and buggies.

The stone age didnt end when we ran out of stones. They moved on when it made sense.

At the moment we have centuries worth of coal. Rushing and wrecking our economy is what morons want to do.

 

[kranky al]

trump was one of the first to close a countries borders despite WHO saying it was ok to leave them open despite WHO knowing and covering the virus up with china since november 2019

most of the deaths have been in democratic run states not replication?
why
how did this happen to mainly those states?
how is this trumps fault. i mean the republican run states managed to control things far better despite having far relaxing laws and keeping some entertainment venues open whre as the democratic run states went in to strict lock down!


mean while lets just forget about what china did to the world and blame trump!
like all things lift just blame others for own incompetence!
#orangemanbad

Oh and Sorry to burst your balloon but....

 

[kranky al]

The stone age didnt end when we ran out of stones. They moved on when it made sense.

At the moment we have centuries worth of coal. Rushing and wrecking our economy is what morons want to do.

Mmmm because climate change isnt a thing.

 

[kranky al]

The stone age didnt end when we ran out of stones. They moved on when it made sense.

At the moment we have centuries worth of coal. Rushing and wrecking our economy is what morons want to do.

Nice analogy - the stone age ended when man discovered bronze

theres still heaps of stone - they found something better.

 

[The Passenger]

gotta love how Australia one of those countries lowering our emissions will be punished whilse other countries with rising omittions & will just continue to emit!

and you cant pick up in what is wrong with this!

talk about gullable! the left is the barometer of what a stupid society looks like

Wow - 280 posts in a week. Even by the standards of conservative aliases that's an impressive level of dedication to not having a life.