Society/Culture Should a trade apprenticeship be valued as highly as a university degree ?

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Morrison33

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Feb 24, 2021
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Hi guys interested in your thoughts as I find it puzzling that society still doesn't place the same prestigious value on a trade qualification that they do on a degree.

To me they are different but equal.

Thoughts ?
 

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sdfc

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Prestige, respect and most importantly seen as just as good an option for kids once they leave school.
Prestige is a word that can mean a few different things.

I agree that the environment doesn't seem to favour encouraging kids to take up an apprenticeship at 15 like it used to. If that's what you mean I agree.
 

Pie eyed

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Specify the trade and the degree?
There are different relative values in both.
You can live without a haircut but die if your sparky is crap, by the same token an art critic is not going to do as much for you as a surgeon.

Your not comparing apple with apples.

"Value" is also a very subjective word.
For instance.
Scott Morrison values Christian Porter because Christian Porter supports him in the Liberal Caucus.
 

Taylor

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The universities build their own internal culture of elitism, it's part of how they compete with each other.

Almost all of them have to call someone in to fix a leaky tap or toilet, put in a light switch or power point.

If you work hard with whatever you've done after school you should do well in life and when it comes to that nobody values the uni degree while living in the share house next to the tradie who owns their own outright and is their own boss.

Everyone wants to finish work for the weekend and relax.
 

Pie eyed

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Our education system encourages further education, aka more education is better.

No more than snobbery.
You know that trades also do further education?
More education is better.
Why the hell do we want an ignorant populous? Unless you are John Howard or Tony Abbott et al.
Australia is a ridiculously wealthy country in world terms.
Education is a relatively small cost for a massive benefit socially.
 

Kwality

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You know that trades also do further education?
More education is better.
Why the hell do we want an ignorant populous? Unless you are John Howard or Tony Abbott et al.
Australia is a ridiculously wealthy country in world terms.
Education is a relatively small cost for a massive benefit socially.
Further education, as in a degree or two - shame kids cant read or write.
 

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Pie eyed

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Further education, as in a degree or two - shame kids cant read or write.
Further education does not solely mean a degree.

Are you an employer? You really post as if you are ignorant.

I am an employer. A tradesman, who has further tertiary education ( Class A Builders License) and a degree (Bachelor of Business Administration, Paid for by a former employer)

I employ tradies and I employ university graduates. I also employ just plain old workers.

I am required to and am happy to spend a significant amount on training for all my staff.
It is actually the law.
It also grows my business.
I have had a few tradies do university courses, One in engineering and two in IT.
I also have a female computer coder who has done her 1st and 2nd year of a Carpenter/Joiner trade part time.
One of my TA's is now a tradesman.

You need to expand your point of reference.
 

Morrison33

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Im a lawyer and my sparky mates earn more than me.

So I dont get it.
You will find at private schools the focus is on getting kids into university. Only the kids who struggle with school are encouraged to look at a trade.

I can't speak for public schools but I assume its the same.
 

Kwality

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Further education does not solely mean a degree.

Are you an employer? You really post as if you are ignorant.

I am an employer. A tradesman, who has further tertiary education ( Class A Builders License) and a degree (Bachelor of Business Administration, Paid for by a former employer)

I employ tradies and I employ university graduates. I also employ just plain old workers.

I am required to and am happy to spend a significant amount on training for all my staff.
It is actually the law.
It also grows my business.
I have had a few tradies do university courses, One in engineering and two in IT.
I also have a female computer coder who has done her 1st and 2nd year of a Carpenter/Joiner trade part time.
One of my TA's is now a tradesman.

You need to expand your point of reference.

Pumped kids through multiple apprenticeships.
Supported uni graduates in their first jobs in my early days.
My profession required being up to date to be relevant until (10+ years) I gave it away and got a real job (sic).

My post was poorly written, it was meant to be a shot at academics who have no concept beyond academia, rather promote it as the end game. I understand your remarks & accept your criticism based on what I posted.

Challenging jobs require many skills many of which are acquired in the workplace.
I did find a 4 week live in course at a Sydney Uni challenging, with a wide range of qualifications of attendees, from State Managers thru to an Exec Sec for one of the car companies (importers). Engineers, lawyers, accountants, business owners, shopping centre managers, public servants from many disciplines, all ordinary people with management roles being the common denominator.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Hi guys interested in your thoughts as I find it puzzling that society still doesn't place the same prestigious value on a trade qualification that they do on a degree.

To me they are different but equal.

Thoughts ?
What do you mean by "value"?

If you do an apprenticeship, you'll probably be earning more by age 23 than someone with a generic arts degree.

What more value do you want?

But no, if you do a carpentry apprenticeship, that's unlikely to be valued as highly as a medicine degree.
 

Malifice

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You will find at private schools the focus is on getting kids into university. Only the kids who struggle with school are encouraged to look at a trade.

I can't speak for public schools but I assume its the same.
Yeah but not all tertiary degrees are employment focussed. There is more to getting an education than employment.
 

Suspense

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You will find at private schools the focus is on getting kids into university. Only the kids who struggle with school are encouraged to look at a trade.

I can't speak for public schools but I assume its the same.
I teach computing/software development in a public school.

From Year 7 to 12, 95% of the content I teach is hands-on, practical, applied learning. After 6 years of learning, my students are ultimately assessed on the memorisation and regurgitation of Software Development theory - which has a somewhat tenuous connection to their ability to solve problems, code or their own portfolio of work.

This has little correlation to the real world where the main thing that potential employers want to see your portfolio of work - what can you 'do' - not how much can you 'memorise'. Senior developers rely on Stack Overflow as much as junior developers - your ability to code is not dependant upon your memorisation skills.

Remove standardised testing and hear the howls of "we need a quantitative way to measure teacher accountability!" or "how do I know if it's a good school if I can't see their average ATAR?".

Until there is any change with how we view education, as a society - this is what you get.

Sit down, shutup, listen and regurgitate.
 

CheapCharlie

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A plumbing or Electrical trade shouldn't be valued as highly as a medical degree or a science degree. Nothing wrong with choosing a trade and doing that but its in the higher levels of computing, science, maths, medicine where advances in society are made.
 

Kwality

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I teach computing/software development in a public school.

From Year 7 to 12, 95% of the content I teach is hands-on, practical, applied learning. After 6 years of learning, my students are ultimately assessed on the memorisation and regurgitation of Software Development theory - which has a somewhat tenuous connection to their ability to solve problems, code or their own portfolio of work.

This has little correlation to the real world where the main thing that potential employers want to see your portfolio of work - what can you 'do' - not how much can you 'memorise'. Senior developers rely on Stack Overflow as much as junior developers - your ability to code is not dependant upon your memorisation skills.

Remove standardised testing and hear the howls of "we need a quantitative way to measure teacher accountability!" or "how do I know if it's a good school if I can't see their average ATAR?".

Until there is any change with how we view education, as a society - this is what you get.

Sit down, shutup, listen and regurgitate.
Sadly for the teaching profession there are measures made public that suggest too many kids are getting through their school years minus the 3 r's and international comparisons suggest our world ranking is slipping.

I am a firm believer that the employment market place 'sorts the wheat from the chaff'.
 

Evolved1

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Im a lawyer and my sparky mates earn more than me.

So I dont get it.
Yeah, this.

I've been offered less money for more responsibility and a better job title. fu** that. I'm in it for the money.
 

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