List Mgmt. Should I stay or should I go now? End of season list management discussion (now continued for 2020)

[MrPremiership]

List sizes now being discussed as 44 total, might be a reprieve for some.

North are going to have recycle a lot of players or take 10 picks in the draft.

 

[MrPremiership]

Good mail? I've heard nothing on this.

I pass on what I hear.

It's a month til FA opens and Hawks don't want to lose him though.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

List sizes now being discussed as 44 total, might be a reprieve for some.

That’s massive

 

[H00t]

On one hand I want Isaac to stay because he is a great winger, on the other hand I think we need to move on from thinking its still 2014 and plan for the 2023-2025 period where we can be top 4 and pushing for more premiership success, if we had transferred in 2017 when I wish we had, success would be from 2020-2022, 3 years earlier but we would have had to retire off premiership heroes prematurely so I can see the reasons why they did what they did, but I knew that we would pay the price for those decisions and the price we paid is being ordinary for 4 or so years.

2016 was the year for me. Started the year on fire on top at round 16. Then hit the wall. Clarko realised we couldn’t win the flag.
Then the awful trading period. I honestly feel it’s set us back so far.

If we just had of kept Mitchell, Lewis then hodge in 2017 as onfield coaches then looked to move on those with good currency over a 2 year period we could have had at least 6-8 1st round picks from 2016-2018. And we’d be laughing now. Instead we traded any pick we could get our hands on.

Ah well it’s done now. Hoping for a lot more draft picks in the next couple of years. That way we are finding it hard to cut people instead of this year where people are staying on the list who wouldn’t be if our list was in a healthy shape.

 

[HawksILove]

I want Jeremy Cameron to come to Hawthorn not Geelong

On SM-G955F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[PAOKTSIS]

On one hand I want Isaac to stay because he is a great winger, on the other hand I think we need to move on from thinking its still 2014 and plan for the 2023-2025 period where we can be top 4 and pushing for more premiership success, if we had transferred in 2017 when I wish we had, success would be from 2020-2022, 3 years earlier but we would have had to retire off premiership heroes prematurely so I can see the reasons why they did what they did, but I knew that we would pay the price for those decisions and the price we paid is being ordinary for 4 or so years.

This is exactly why we must seriously listen to offers for some of our stars who won't be around in 2-3 years (or will be on a downwards path) and may be able to net us some first round picks.

 

[Lickmesocks]

That’s massive

Draft night could go on for a week with some of the clubs (North) trying to fill spots lol .

“With pick number 127 North select Ross Glendinning”

Shifter “wow we didn’t see that coming but there has been talk about North filling some list spots with experience”

 

[Lickmesocks]

2016 was the year for me. Started the year on fire on top at round 16. Then hit the wall. Clarko realised we couldn’t win the flag.
Then the awful trading period. I honestly feel it’s set us back so far.

If we just had of kept Mitchell, Lewis then hodge in 2017 as onfield coaches then looked to move on those with good currency over a 2 year period we could have had at least 6-8 1st round picks from 2016-2018. And we’d be laughing now. Instead we traded any pick we could get our hands on.

Ah well it’s done now. Hoping for a lot more draft picks in the next couple of years. That way we are finding it hard to cut people instead of this year where people are staying on the list who wouldn’t be if our list was in a healthy shape.

You make some good points but fail to recognise our salary cap was heaving. The likes of Hodge Mitchell and Lewis are not going to stay around and play football for 300k each when they can earn more outside of playing football. Unfortunately the media in all there wisdom don’t discuss these things when older players are moved on.

Managing our cap is the most important piece in gaining long term success.

You get to a point with club champions/ legends that are coming down the other side of the mountain that still believe they should be paid top dollar and the club has a real tough decision to make.

Keep the legends for another year or two at the expense of a Sicily type who is being courted everywhere and has to be paid etc etc etc.

Hodge Mitch and Lewis were all finished up at the right time by us is my opinion.

 

[H00t]

You make some good points but fail to recognise our salary cap was heaving. The likes of Hodge Mitchell and Lewis are not going to stay around and play football for 300k each when they can earn more outside of playing football. Unfortunately the media in all there wisdom don’t discuss these things when older players are moved on.

Managing our cap is the most important piece in gaining long term success.

You get to a point with club champions/ legends that are coming down the other side of the mountain that still believe they should be paid top dollar and the club has a real tough decision to make.

Keep the legends for another year or two at the expense of a Sicily type who is being courted everywhere and has to be paid etc etc etc.

Hodge Mitch and Lewis were all finished up at the right time by us is my opinion.

I agree that our salary cap would have been at bursting point. That’s why moving on the level underneath hodge, Mitchell and Lewis for draft picks would have been the go. More draft picks for us and hodge, Mitchell and Lewis cover for a couple of years helping to develop the draft picks that Shiels, Smith, Gunston etc would have got us.

Either way hawthorn premiership stars had to be moved on. I’d have just preferred a hard rebuild as we were in the best position to do it. Rather than being in no man’s land now.

 

[Brant]

2016 was the year for me. Started the year on fire on top at round 16. Then hit the wall. Clarko realised we couldn’t win the flag.
Then the awful trading period. I honestly feel it’s set us back so far.

If we just had of kept Mitchell, Lewis then hodge in 2017 as onfield coaches then looked to move on those with good currency over a 2 year period we could have had at least 6-8 1st round picks from 2016-2018. And we’d be laughing now. Instead we traded any pick we could get our hands on.

Ah well it’s done now. Hoping for a lot more draft picks in the next couple of years. That way we are finding it hard to cut people instead of this year where people are staying on the list who wouldn’t be if our list was in a healthy shape.

But for Roughy getting cancer & corrupt umpiring, we would probs have won the flag.

BIT defeatist of Clarko to give up mid season, whilst on top.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

I want Jeremy Cameron to come to Hawthorn not Geelong

On SM-G955F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Geelong really would be the masters of free agency if they land him, Dangerfield and Cameron.

 

[H00t]

But for Roughy getting cancer & corrupt umpiring, we would probs have won the flag.

BIT defeatist of Clarko to give up mid season, whilst on top.

With roughy maybe, still highly unlikely. Our form after round 16 was very poor. Our players were running on empty. Even if we won 16, 17 was never going to be a chance no matter what we did.
Not saying Clarko should have give up at round 16 but come the end of the year. Clarko realised the current team wasn’t up to it. It’s why he moved on Lewis and Mitchell.
Just feel hawthorn could have gone a harder rebuild than the middling, buy a couple of players for all our draft picks, that we went for.

 

[Bugs1977]

With roughy maybe, still highly unlikely. Our form after round 16 was very poor. Our players were running on empty. Even if we won 16, 17 was never going to be a chance no matter what we did.
Not saying Clarko should have give up at round 16 but come the end of the year. Clarko realised the current team wasn’t up to it. It’s why he moved on Lewis and Mitchell.
Just feel hawthorn could have gone a harder rebuild than the middling, buy a couple of players for all our draft picks, that we went for.

We were like that boxer that goes on 1-2 fights too many. In there head they're in the best shape of their career and is the last to realise it.

Being on top for so long is one hell of a drug and I think Clarko just tried to get every little bit out of the group that he could. It's not all doom and gloom though but a change of course is most definitely needed which I think is happening wether he (Clarko) likes it or not.

 

[Stratton24]

We were like that boxer that goes on 1-2 fights too many. In there head they're in the best shape of their career and is the last to realise it.

Being on top for so long is one hell of a drug and I think Clarko just tried to get every little bit out of the group that he could. It's not all doom and gloom though but a change of course is most definitely needed which I think is happening wether he (Clarko) likes it or not.

We were not that far off a flag in 2018 - we had great records v West Coast and Collingwood who played off in the GF. We finished top 4 with Cyril retiring, Sic cracking his wrist, McEvoy hurting his knee, Stratton doing a hammy in the first final, JOM hurting his knee in the first final, Silk breaking his ribs in the last round, TOM hurting his shoulder in the opening minutes of the second final. You need a lot of luck in all sports - just look at the four teams playing off in the Prelims this week - hardly an injury between them.

 

[Bugs1977]

We were not that far off a flag in 2018 - we had great records v West Coast and Collingwood who played off in the GF. We finished top 4 with Cyril retiring, Sic cracking his wrist, McEvoy hurting his knee, Stratton doing a hammy in the first final, JOM hurting his knee in the first final, Silk breaking his ribs in the last round, TOM hurting his shoulder in the opening minutes of the second final. You need a lot of luck in all sports - just look at the four teams playing off in the Prelims this week - hardly an injury between them.

Which is why I said that Clarko tried to get every little bit out of the group that he could. The year we got Wingard was the 1-2 fight too many analogy I was using. I love Wingard but just think that the recognition of where our list was at was incorrect.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Can we do a 2016-2018 season review somewhere else.

 

[Stratton24]

Can we do a 2016-2018 season review somewhere else.

It's relevant to list management going forward to discuss what has been done in the recent past

 

[Billyc]

List sizes now being discussed as 44 total, might be a reprieve for some.

Good news for the strong sides and crap news for the likes of us if true

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It's relevant to list management going forward to discuss what has been done in the recent past

It has zero relevance to who will or won’t be with us in a months time.

 

[MrPremiership]

Good news for the strong sides and crap news for the likes of us if true

Not sure about that. Gives us more spots to find talent.

 

[Billyc]

Not sure about that. Gives us more spots to find talent.

At pick 150? Just means we will retain more blokes who aren’t up to it and the players cut from stronger lists will be of lesser quality

 

[MrPremiership]

At pick 150? Just means we will retain more blokes who aren’t up to it and the players cut from stronger lists will be of lesser quality

Why pick 150? List sizes doesn't effect our decision making on players, it's still up to us.

List sizes won't mean more teams are hitting the draft and out picks balloon out. Then there are DFAs we could try, state league players, etc.

We've got quite a few holes on the list and the more list spots open means a better chance of finding talent

 

[cryptor]

List sizes now being discussed as 44 total, might be a reprieve for some.

If that happens I want to see someone use that Spanish laughing man video meme to make one about how Norf gutted a huge portion of their list before they had to only to discover list sizes weren't being dramatically reduced.

 

[Blackhawk42]

I wasn't going to post this here but who the hell cares.

Isaac Smith was I'm my town recently. Not sure why. Was spotted by an acquaintance of mine who is a fellow Hawks supporter at a park (I believe with his daughter). My acquaintance took his son over and introduced himself. Had a great chat.
Finally he asked the question. 'What are you doing next year?'

Isaac smirked and said 'have a great day mate' and was on his way.

This doesn't confirm anything of course, but thought everybody would be interested in the exchange.

Meeting was accompanied by a photo of Smithy and my contacts son. Izzy was wearing a shirt that looked exactly like the Hawthorn logo but said 'pigeons' instead of Hawks. Thought that was odd.

 

[Mojo]

I wasn't going to post this here but who the hell cares.

Isaac Smith is in my town today. Not sure why. Was spotted by an acquaintance of mine who is a fellow Hawks supporter at a park (I believe with his daughter). My acquaintance took his son over and introduced himself. Had a great chat.
Finally he asked the question. 'What are you doing next year?'

Isaac smirked and said 'have a great day mate' and was on his way.

This doesn't confirm anything of course, but thought everybody would be interested in the exchange.

Meeting was accompanied by a photo of Smithy and my contacts son. Izzy was wearing a shirt that looked exactly like the Hawthorn logo but said 'pigeons' instead of Hawks. Thought that was odd.

What does it ALL mean?