Showdown XXXII - The most important Showdown for our club in 7 years

[DavidSaywell]

For the first time in many years we have a coach who recognises that a Showdown isn't just another game. This alone makes this a very important game as it tests Sandos ability to lift our players for a "finals" atmosphere game. Port certainly will be playing with that intensity. They always do when they play us. Even Chudley couldn't help himself on Saturday

 

[Cap]

given it is going to be a fine day, what do we think Crowd wise? 35k? maybe pushing 40?

 

[madstar]

There should be 40 but it hasn't proved to be the most popular timeslot.

 

[Cap]

it is the worst timeslot possible.

I have to convince my Country living family and friends to come, multiple that across the board and there is your no shows.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Only just ahead...

In terms of of player development/rankings... Port have the 2nd worst ranked playing list in the AFL. The Crows have the 3rd worst ranked playing list in the AFL.

Take whatever comfort from that you wish.

What do you think 'should' means? (thanks Marcus)

I don't think we are very far ahead of you, if at all.

Given that you guys have been off-loading senior players and playing raw, untried kids for the last two seasons rather than focusing on current results, a loss would be a deeply embarrassing reflection on our actions the last two seasons. Eg you've taken a deliberate step backwards to make future gains but have still finished up ahead.

 

[kaysee]

given it is going to be a fine day, what do we think Crowd wise? 35k? maybe pushing 40?

I reckon 40k... Crows home games normally get an extra 5k.

Foxtel broadcast (and because it is more easily accessible nowadays via XBOX, PC etc) and the anti AAMI factor will obviously impact the overall figures.

Hopefully though enough passionate people get along though. Football passion in this state has become very placid in the last 5 years. Whether that is due to AAMI, Foxtel, poor form, alternative social activities, lack of varying opposition support or whatever... IMO it has become stale.

As footy fans we need to fan the flames to reignite the passion and make it a fun social outing again. Part of the reason I've started playfully stirring the pot again on Bay13, as well as engaging other AFC/PAFC colleagues in more footy discussions etc... is to start rebuilding some footy passion about the place. SA needs it... AO wont be the silver bullet for this state... it is the people that make it social and fun.

/Off soapbox

 

[kaysee]

What do you think 'should' means? (thanks Marcus)

I don't think we are very far ahead of you, if at all.
...

Noted... didn't really heed the "should" nor mean to specifically leave it out in my highlighting. The intention of my reply was simply to be informative about the "state-of-the-nation" for both playing lists.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Noted... didn't really heed the "should" nor mean to specifically leave it out in my highlighting. The intention of my reply was simply to be informative about the "state-of-the-nation" for both playing lists.

Ok, no worries.

While you're here, are Port fans in general happy that Primus has gone down the youth path and pushed Cornes, Rodan, Surjan, Brogan, Ebert, Salopek... to the outer?

 

[Damp Squarie]

I think we'll lose, Port are 1-3, we're 3-1, yet they're playing superior footy.

I agree.
Ive watched Pork closely this year and they've played some nice footy for long periods plus they would know we are vulnerable.

I sort of agree with the opening post. If we were to lose this game (Round 5), all of a sudden our next win might not be until Round 16 such would be the fallout along with our confidence taking a huge hit.

Its a massive game.

 

[Slippery Pete]

There's always someone before every single showdown that proclaims it the biggest one yet.

Amer takes the clown award this time.

 

[amer]

Yeah, it's huge! In the context of our season, given the games we have coming up, this game could have a huge say in our fortunes. Port will be desperate to get some purchase for the improvement they have shown, and it could kickstart their year - season on the line stuff for them.

I can't recall a Showdown coming along at a more critical time for either club since the final.

 

[amer]

There's always someone before every single showdown that proclaims it the biggest one yet.

Amer takes the clown award this time.

How rational of you - combat one claim of certainty with the implication of the opposite.

Should change your name to Slippery Pope.

 

[Slippery Pete]

I can't recall a Showdown coming along at a more critical time for either club since the final.

I can think of at least five and thats a conservative estimate. In a number I the late season showdowns in the last seven years we were fighting for a finals spot.

 

[amer]

I can think of at least five and thats a conservative estimate. In a number I the late season showdowns in the last seven years we were fighting for a finals spot.

Name them, run through them.

 

[Cap]

honestly, I thought the Hawthorn game was more important.

however lose this game and it doesn't paint a pretty picture for the club.

 

[kaysee]

Ok, no worries.

While you're here, are Port fans in general happy that Primus has gone down the youth path and pushed Cornes, Rodan, Surjan, Brogan, Ebert, Salopek... to the outer?

Sorry for posting a mainly pro-Port post here, but am simply answering the question posed...

Initially, I think many casual observers were critical of the treatment of Cornes x2, Brogan, Surjan... and others to a lesser extent (especially in 2011). Off-season though saw Surjan admit his 2011 pre-season was poor which justified his treatment (notice he is right back in the thick of it in 2012). Kane also adjusted between seasons and many have applauded the change and he is fittingly back in the thick of it.

However, I think most casual observers didn't fully realise the problems Primus faced with our list. A couple of weeks ago I posted our own "Reality Check" on our board highlighting exactly where our list is at in terms of development and issues facing Primus. I think that has helped more casual observers realise our issues... ie we must continue to develop/expose our youth. Experienced players can get game time, but we can only allocate a X number of positions for experienced players. ATM players like Cornes, Cassisi, Surjan would be keeping others like Salopek, Logan and Ebert out of the side. Not much point bringing in a 29yo Salopek for a 20yo O'Shea if Salopek has reached his full potential.

I would say now most Port supporters aren't happy with who Primus is handling our selections for game day... ie wrong utilisation of the subs, wrong positioning of some players, wrong forward setup etc.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Name them, run through them.

Round 4, 2011
Round 17, 2010
Round 17, 2009
Round 16, 2008
Round 18, 2007

The 2011 game was the death knell for Neil Craig.

The other four games we were fighting tooth and nail for a finals spot. The 2007 game was a virtual elimination final.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

However, I think most casual observers didn't fully realise the problems Primus faced with our list. A couple of weeks ago I posted our own "Reality Check" on our board highlighting exactly where our list is at in terms of development and issues facing Primus. I think that has helped more casual observers realise our issues... ie we must continue to develop/expose our youth. Experienced players can get game time, but we can only allocate a X number of positions for experienced players. ATM players like Cornes, Cassisi, Surjan would be keeping others like Salopek, Logan and Ebert out of the side. Not much point bringing in a 29yo Salopek for a 20yo O'Shea if Salopek has reached his full potential.

I would say now most Port supporters aren't happy with who Primus is handling our selections for game day... ie wrong utilisation of the subs, wrong positioning of some players, wrong forward setup etc.

Thanks for that.

Guess I'm interested less in the "micro" (match ups, moves during games etc) and more about the broad selection philosophy that is being applied.

I wonder how history will view Primus and this era of the club in general?

As a Robert Shaw (or maybe Mark Harvey in future?) who put in some hard yards identifying players and laid the foundations for future success only for someone else to come in and finish the job?

Or whether it's more a Dean Bailey scenario, where standards slipped and irreparable damage occurred?

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Agree with the OP... This is a crucial game....

Win and the next 5 games will determine where we are at as a club...

Win 3 out of the next 5 and we are a genuine chance for a top 4 such is our piss easy draw after that.

Win 2 out of 5, we will be sitting 6-4 and ever chance of playing finals...

Win 1 or less, which I expect and we amazingly are still a finals chance of finals but only because of a weak draw, and time to invest games in to kids, retire Doughty etc... Send others off for early operations

Lose to Port, the next 5 weeks dont matter as we already know the answer of where we are at.

 

[Slippery Pete]

What a load of crap Freddy my boy.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

What a load of crap Freddy my boy.

IF we win 3 of the games after the showdown, do yourself a favour and have a good look at the remaining games for the year. Do the math Pete... We will be a genuine chance...

FYI that will have us 7/3.... With 11 genuine chances... The toughest of those 11 being North away and West Coast at home

 

[*PAF]

Thanks for that.

Guess I'm interested less in the "micro" (match ups, moves during games etc) and more about the broad selection philosophy that is being applied.

I wonder how history will view Primus and this era of the club in general?

As a Robert Shaw (or maybe Mark Harvey in future?) who put in some hard yards identifying players and laid the foundations for future success only for someone else to come in and finish the job?

Or whether it's more a Dean Bailey scenario, where standards slipped and irreparable damage occurred?

I'll buy into this one as well if that's ok.

IMO Primus is doing what he has to do.
Whilst we are talking senior players, we are also talking about out of form senior players or senior players with flaws wrt to current day trends. Do keep in mind that some of those flaws are due to the style they have been brainwashed into playing over the last x number of years, a style that just doesn't work nowadays.
2007 was all about rushing forward and there were quotes around at the time that contested footy was a thing of the past.

I do not think Primus has ever chosen a side with a Melbourne youth at all cost philosophy, but senior players have been put on notice and realise that they need to perform according to instruction or they will be dropped.
Brogan was always going to retire right up until GWS made him an offer he couldn't refuse, he wasn't pushed out.
Chad Cornes was competing with Butcher, D. Stewart, Schulz, Westhoff, Chaplin and Trengove. Chad Cornes at his best would be one of the first chosen but he is on the way down and the others are good players that need gametime. I do not see any of that as being controversial.
Kornes and Surjan have been explained by Kaysee.
Salopek lost form and I am sure that if he finds it again he will be in the side.
Logan and Thomas are competing with youth and more often than not one of them has been in the side.

Will he lay down the foundations for someone else? I do not know but he is doing the work that should have been started a few years before he took over. If it had been started then it could have been done at a gentler pace, now we have no option but to try and speed up the process and that will mean having to endure with some pain along the way.

The way he should be judged at the end of the year is if we win games we are expected to win plus win a couple more that we weren't, then it will be a pass mark. The opposite will be a fail.

 

[amer]

Round 4, 2011
Round 17, 2010
Round 17, 2009
Round 16, 2008
Round 18, 2007

The 2011 game was the death knell for Neil Craig.

The other four games we were fighting tooth and nail for a finals spot. The 2007 game was a virtual elimination final.

...

You've shown weakness.

 

[CrowEater888]

We're playing like s**t and winning. Damned sight better than our past couple of seasons. We were 0-4 this time in 2010 and 1-3 in 2011. But we all know the reality. Play like this all year and we're bottom 4.

This Showdown is really important for us, probably the most important clash between the two sides since the 2005 semi. It's massive. We need this one, and the Power will be gunning for us like they haven't in a long while. It will define our season. Porplyzia, Walker, Mackay, I'm looking at you. Big talents all of you. Find your touch and set 2012 up.

Time to get hyped for a Showdown for the first time in what feels like forever.

I agree with some points, disagree with others.

I agree we are not playing well and at times look quite unconvincing. I am however, quite confident that this will be fixed, in time. Under Sando we are definitely showing glimpses of greater talent and enthusiasm, but old habits need to be stamped out - not easy to do!

I disagree that on current form we would finish bottom 4. On current form we'd probably sneak into the bottom of the top 8. We are playing much better than GWS, the Suns, Bullies, Melbourne, Brisbane, Richmond and Port. I'd fancy our chances against the Saints, Swans, North and Freo.

I disagree that this game is uber important. It's just another game we need to win. Leave that kind of bullshit talk to the Paps please.

 

[knobby]

Its interesting you know, we're playing like s**t and we are winning, why ?

We've won clearances and contested possession in every game ! Apart from GC we've lost in tackling and clangers !!

Its the clangers that makes us look ugly, tackling is an issue as well.

Fact is we are winning ugly rather then pretty, what wins finals ! (tackling helps !) Clearances and contested possies were a major issue pre-2012, so we've improved yeah !?!?