Roast So, when does Burgess start getting some scrutiny?

[Willsy10]

There was an article I read from Tredders that I thought had some odd bits and pieces in it, he basically said that our soft tissue injury rates are quite low and that most of our injuries are collision injuries. So he was going in to bat for Burgess who was starting to come under fire, however, I can't remember another year where we've had so many players miss chunks of the season through soft tissue injuries. Maybe I'm wrong, but come seasons end I would like to see a graph or table of soft tissue injuries and games missed and compare to previous seasons. I'd be shocked if this wasn't one of the worst years in our AFL history.

 

[chiwigi]

There was an article I read from Tredders that I thought had some odd bits and pieces in it, he basically said that our soft tissue injury rates are quite low and that most of our injuries are collision injuries. So he was going in to bat for Burgess who was starting to come under fire, however, I can't remember another year where we've had so many players miss chunks of the season through soft tissue injuries. Maybe I'm wrong, but come seasons end I would like to see a graph or table of soft tissue injuries and games missed and compare to previous seasons. I'd be shocked if this wasn't one of the worst years in our AFL history.

I hate this excuse, you CAN train to avoid collision injuries (rugby and gridiron do it, it's called muscle mass), and in a collision sport it seems a good idea.

 

[chiwigi]

...and the sleep rooms, and club paid access to the sleep pods yes, yes, I know, I am a cracked record

They've had the sleep rooms for many years, it's not new and it has always been a good idea.

 

[Sheeds]

That's completely innaccurate. I've spoken to burgo about this and he quit because the soccer coaches are so single minded they complete disregard anything he had to say (or the science in gerneral for that matter). He was there in the background doing work and not being used. He wanted out because they didn't use him.

Which, to be honest all sports scientists take a back seat to the actual coach. If a drill is meant to go for 18 minutes to get the required running in and the coach isn't happy with it it will go for 25. The sports science guys have to re jig things so everyone gets enough training but not too much. This is true for fitness coaches and strength and conditioning coaches. They are an aid to the sports coaches and have to fit into their show. Essentially what I'm saying is burgo can be over ruled by the coaching staff.

It seems from this Burgo doesn't like working within the confines of a club environment and a structure in which he doesn't get to do as he pleases. It looks like Port have allowed him to do as he pleases and the results don't look all that positive.

As far as overruling is concerned I would like to think the exact same thing would happen here. If Burgess wanted the players to do an hour of running and Ken decided lets do 40 minutes instead and some skills work because you know we are awful at this then surely the coach gets his way?

 

[badbeats]

Well it's obvious we've been doing no skills work...

 

[BrockBlitz]

It seems from this Burgo doesn't like working within the confines of a club environment and a structure in which he doesn't get to do as he pleases. It looks like Port have allowed him to do as he pleases and the results don't look all that positive.

As far as overruling is concerned I would like to think the exact same thing would happen here. If Burgess wanted the players to do an hour of running and Ken decided lets do 40 minutes instead and some skills work because you know we are awful at this then surely the coach gets his way?

i think you are taking what I've said and run with it.

 

[Jonts]

Without power output data they're completely useless. A player would walk several km's per game.

You say this as if they're just wearing basic GPS system that can't track speed and heart rate

 

[finbarr]

You say this as if they're just wearing basic GPS system that can't track speed and heart rate

Heart rate and speed are different to power. Every pro cyclist and plenty of amateurs use power meters to get a reading of wattage output via strain gauges placed in the crank spider or crank arm, and these give the most accurate assessment, especially when used with a heart rate monitor. Every rider rides to power, not speed. I have heard they've developed a power meter for runners which sits in the shoe.

 

[Jonts]

Heart rate and speed are different to power. Every pro cyclist and plenty of amateurs use power meters to get a reading of wattage output via strain gauges placed in the crank spider or crank arm, and these give the most accurate assessment, especially when used with a heart rate monitor. Every rider rides to power, not speed. I have heard they've developed a power meter for runners which sits in the shoe.

I'd be shocked though if their wasn't
Wasnt if speed is x and Heart rate is y
Then power equals z formula they v use though

 

[BrockBlitz]

Heart rate and speed are different to power. Every pro cyclist and plenty of amateurs use power meters to get a reading of wattage output via strain gauges placed in the crank spider or crank arm, and these give the most accurate assessment, especially when used with a heart rate monitor. Every rider rides to power, not speed. I have heard they've developed a power meter for runners which sits in the shoe.

The GPS units have a gyroscope with 6 degrees of freedom. The amount of data you can get with change of direction etc is immense.

 

[ctpower]

Well it's obvious we've been doing no skills work...

We spent the summer in adelaide working on our skills.
Michael voss was on radio on Sunday telling people that our skills are still a big focus.
Hard to believe I know as they are as bad I've ever seen from a Pafc team.

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

i havent followed this thread at all, but i think Burgess is still just as good, but the game plan is taxing the players too much. Chase till you finally get the ball, then dont pause....run like a chook with its head cut off. Which hasnt worked...so its most of the time chasing the ball. Once again back to good coaching of working smarter not harder.

This also explains the poor skills, cos anyone who plays sport knows the significant drop in skills when your totally farked.

 

[OneGreatClub]

i havent followed this thread at all, but i think Burgess is still just as good, but the game plan is taxing the players too much. Chase till you finally get the ball, then dont pause....run like a chook with its head cut off. Which hasnt worked...so its most of the time chasing the ball. Once again back to good coaching of working smarter not harder.

This also explains the poor skills, cos anyone who plays sport knows the significant drop in skills when your totally farked.

And I reckon our game style has effect on our injuries too.

 

[Steve Dore]

.... This also explains the poor skills, cos anyone who plays sport knows the significant drop in skills when your totally farked.

It's a bit chicken and egg. Our poor skills mean we turn the ball over a lot so players who spread are having to run back to cover their opponent. This leads to greater fatigue which results in poorer skills.

This is probably one of the reasons our players no longer spread like they did in 2013/2014. They don't have the confidence in their teammates not to turn the ball over so they don't run forward leaving their opponent unguarded.

 

[Steve Dore]

With all the discontent over Vardy being because of his injury record, remember, our medicos seem to be able to get players back on the park. I trust they'd be able to get Vardy playing good again.

Are these the same "medicos" that have seen us struggle to field a team because of soft tissue and other poorly managed injuries?

 

[David Puddy]

Are these the same "medicos" that have seen us struggle to field a team because of soft tissue and other poorly managed injuries?

Carlile, Howard, Lobbe were all knees and not soft tissue related.

Jonas missed 6 weeks due to suspension, Ryder and Monfries never got on the park due to the same thing.

Schulz was cooked, don't think there is much more we could have done with him.

I don't think we had many more soft tissues than any other club.

 

[Steve Dore]

Carlile, Howard, Lobbe were all knees and not soft tissue related.

Jonas missed 6 weeks due to suspension, Ryder and Monfries never got on the park due to the same thing.

Schulz was cooked, don't think there is much more we could have done with him.

I don't think we had many more soft tissues than any other club.

Of course our "medicos" aren't responsible for Ryder and Monfries suspension.

Jonas missed games due to a hamstring injury suffered at training after he had served his suspension.

I guess you don't rate guys like Gray, Wingard, Hombsch and Hartlett who all missed games due to soft tissue injuries.

 

[David Puddy]

Of course our "medicos" aren't responsible for Ryder and Monfries suspension.

Jonas missed games due to a hamstring injury suffered at training after he had served his suspension.

I guess you don't rate guys like Gray, Wingard, Hombsch and Hartlett who all missed games due to soft tissue injuries.

Gray missed 3 games - not a massive chunk by any means.

Wingard had more than one issue - concussions combined with a finger as well as soft tissue injuries and still only missed 4 games.

Hartlett is soft as butter and has never been able to get his body right.

Hombsch is about the only one.

If you look back over the season, a lot of other teams would have been in the same boat if not worse. Apart from the Crows, who were kissed on the **** all season.

 

[Steve Dore]

.... Hartlett is soft as butter and has never been able to get his body right. ......

Unlike Vardy

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

With all the discontent over Vardy being because of his injury record, remember, our medicos seem to be able to get players back on the park. I trust they'd be able to get Vardy playing good again.

There is a misconception that medical people can "fix people" like humpty dumpty.

I had a mountaineering accident in the NZ alpine and broke my arm, dislocated my shoulder, tore my rotator cuff and labrum, tore my knee medial and meniscus. Never had any noteworthy injury in my life before that.

I've managed to get that back to 80% of what it was, but no doctor in the world can repair that to what it was.

You're kidding yourself that our medicos can do miracles that another teams can't man, the human body isn't Lego

 

[Schulzenfest]

There is a misconception that medical people can "fix people" like humpty dumpty.

I had a mountaineering accident in the NZ alpine and broke my arm, dislocated my shoulder, tore my rotator cuff and labrum, tore my knee medial and meniscus. Never had any noteworthy injury in my life before that.

I've managed to get that back to 80% of what it was, but no doctor in the world can repair that to what it was.

You're kidding yourself that our medicos can do miracles that another teams can't man, the human body isn't Lego

Agreed, on the proviso that when you say 'another team's medicos' you're excluding Gold Coast.

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

while people definitely aren't leggo, these guys do get a far better chance at recovery than us regular folk.

 

[PAFCsince1870]

There is a misconception that medical people can "fix people" like humpty dumpty.

I had a mountaineering accident in the NZ alpine and broke my arm, dislocated my shoulder, tore my rotator cuff and labrum, tore my knee medial and meniscus. Never had any noteworthy injury in my life before that.

I've managed to get that back to 80% of what it was, but no doctor in the world can repair that to what it was.

You're kidding yourself that our medicos can do miracles that another teams can't man, the human body isn't Lego

I wonder why some players seem to be able to return to close to 100% from multiple ACL injuries for example while others get one serious injury and it either ends their career, or at the very least, they're a far cry from the same player they were before the injury.

I suspect its a combination of genetics and that not all injuries are created equal but I completely agree - thinking a few clubs have some kind of magic voodoo doctor while others have got the medical students in from the local uni is probably a little naive

 

[1954]

Different comp, and obviously a different level of intensity, but in the two sanfl finals I saw, the skill level of the local blue baggers ( particularly by foot ) is what won them the prelim final against the tingle magoos, and the gf against the eagles.

Fitness should be a given at any high level of sport, ( although how a bloke with love handles bigger than the average 50 yo, ie Wundke, could play sanfl level league footy is a what t f ), it's skills that regularly make the difference, and for two seasons now we have seen Power players continually waste opportunities because of 1 handball too many, or a kick to no-one in particular.

Kern's manic game plan, where too many petrol tickets were spent in the first half didn't help either.

 

[MrPortAdelaide]

the only red flag i have with burgess is when i heard him say "it is virtually impossible to overtrain athletes in regard to running." low and behold we get lots of soft tissue injuries?