Roast So, when does Burgess start getting some scrutiny?

[PowerLil]

Sat on this one for a couple of years but a good friend of mine worked with an ex colleague of Burgess in Sydney.

Reckons Burgess has no real understanding on how far athletes can be pushed as he has his own theories and are basically all experimental with no proof.

Pretty much said he's a rogue. Now initially, as this guy was under Burgess, it sounded like sour grapes at the time.

Maybe there is some truth ??

Frankenstein

 

[NEGAN]

To look at our size, you wouldn't think we do any weights, and that's how it looks when most of the other teams push usaround.
So no strength advantage as well as no aerobic advantage, quite a few soft tissue injuries; yet Burgess said by the fourth year he'd have us at peak fitness!

The Sydney bodies vs ours.

Its obvious where their dominance comes from.

 

[Us against the rest]

Sat on this one for a couple of years but a good friend of mine worked with an ex colleague of Burgess in Sydney.

Reckons Burgess has no real understanding on how far athletes can be pushed as he has his own theories and are basically all experimental with no proof.

Pretty much said he's a rogue. Now initially, as this guy was under Burgess, it sounded like sour grapes at the time.

Maybe there is some truth ??

If it's true, it would bring some understanding to what we have witnessed with our players this year and if so i feel sorry for the guy's.

 

[tribey]

Sat on this one for a couple of years but a good friend of mine worked with an ex colleague of Burgess in Sydney.

Reckons Burgess has no real understanding on how far athletes can be pushed as he has his own theories and are basically all experimental with no proof.

Pretty much said he's a rogue. Now initially, as this guy was under Burgess, it sounded like sour grapes at the time.

Maybe there is some truth ??

From an article dated Feb 2014:



I defy anyone to read the 'soccer players train up to twice as much' line and not have a physical reaction. With the "make preseason really hard so in-season is really easy" the icing on the cake.

If that doesn't scream overcooking, I don't know what does.

 

[Doctor Feel]

From an article dated Feb 2014:

View attachment 277195

I defy anyone to read the 'soccer players train up to twice as much' line and not have a physical reaction. With the "make preseason really hard so in-season is really easy" the icing on the cake.

If that doesn't scream overcooking, I don't know what does.

I was actually more concerned about the mental barriers thing. Pushing them so hard in the pre-season and getting them to challenge those mental barriers 24/7 every training session during high frequency training loads is mentally exhausting. It's not just the physical side we are cooking here. We need them to be at their best for 3 hours a week - not on the training track.

I understand they are mutually exclusive but it's only game day that matters the most. Less focus on cardiovascular training, more focus on gameday.

 

[Doctor Feel]

The interesting one is how Ryder and (maybe) Monfries return after long layoffs. I bet they'll look better in games than the other guys.

 

[tribey]

The interesting one is how Ryder and (maybe) Monfries return after long layoffs. I bet they'll look better in games than the other guys.

It happened last year.

Chad missed a considerable chunk of the preseason, yet made the AA team and was a clutch Q3/Q4 performer.

 

[Forzaport]

Sat on this one for a couple of years but a good friend of mine worked with an ex colleague of Burgess in Sydney.

Reckons Burgess has no real understanding on how far athletes can be pushed as he has his own theories and are basically all experimental with no proof.

Pretty much said he's a rogue. Now initially, as this guy was under Burgess, it sounded like sour grapes at the time.

Maybe there is some truth ??

There would be some truth to this. I read somewhere that if you stick to the evidence based approach, you're already behind the competition so I don't doubt there is some IP that's not in the literature and some experimental methods going on.

Looking at how it has played out its obvious the players are far too injury prone and the fitness department along with the coaching panel gravely misjudged the effect of the lowered interchange cap on the competition. Remember Hinkley saying that Lobbe as an endurance player would be advantaged and that we'll see a lot more long kicks to the true KPF like in the good ol' days?

 

[Forzaport]

Just on this thought of my previous post, perhaps we trained more for endurance but have been caught out by the increased speed of the game?

 

[Doctor Feel]

There would be some truth to this. I read somewhere that if you stick to the evidence based approach, you're already behind the competition so I don't doubt there is some IP that's not in the literature and some experimental methods going on.

Looking at how it has played out its obvious the players are far too injury prone and the fitness department along with the coaching panel gravely misjudged the effect of the lowered interchange cap on the competition. Remember Hinkley saying that Lobbe as an endurance player would be advantaged and that we'll see a lot more long kicks to the true KPF like in the good ol' days?

There is a number of talls this year who have seen decreased level of ball and also had decreased influence on games. Only the athletic talls have been getting ball (by running up the ground). I think it's gone completely the other way and the smalls are the important cog at the moment.

 

[tribey]

Just on this thought of my previous post, perhaps we trained more for endurance but have been caught out by the increased speed of the game?

His reference to European soccer training loads, as if it's governed his thoughts on the outer limits of what Aussie Rules players are truly capable of, doesn't really wash either. Completely different preparation. Completely different games.

Teddy Sheringham swanned around the pitch winning a PFA Player of the Year Award while playing 42 matches at home and abroad (not including preseason friendlies) at the age of 35.

Yet you can bet your bottom dollar he'd have been gassed like one of those muscle-meltdown marathoners by half-time of an average AFL game.

 

[NEGAN]

Start stop running vs

Jumping, tackling, constant sprints, bumps, physicality.

One is not like the other.

 

[charcolechaddy]

Wonder if the new weights regime has anything to do with the hammie epidemic this year ?

Maybe they should work on upper body strength as well.

 

[Finest of Wines]

The interesting one is how Ryder and (maybe) Monfries return after long layoffs. I bet they'll look better in games than the other guys.

I was thinking the same, obviously their touch will be a bit off but they should cover the ground well.

 

[Janus]

His reference to European soccer training loads, as if it's governed his thoughts on the outer limits of what Aussie Rules players are truly capable of, doesn't really wash either. Completely different preparation. Completely different games.

Teddy Sheringham swanned around the pitch winning a PFA Player of the Year Award while playing 42 matches at home and abroad (not including preseason friendlies) at the age of 35.

Yet you can bet your bottom dollar he'd have been gassed like one of those muscle-meltdown marathoners by half-time of an average AFL game.

The average distance a soccer player runs is 12 km per game in 90 minutes without the aid of rotations and a rest period at half time. The average for an AFL player is also 12km over 120 minutes, with breaks between quarters and the benefit of rotations.

Burgess said the workload in games is second to none, so he's not flogging them on the track during the season. However, they are meant to be getting their conditioning in games and not standing around being stagnant...when the GPS data says that they are running harder in training than on game day, it's a mental failing of the players. They absolutely have a mental block in their minds that they have been over trained. Dermott Brereton said it best last year - Port needs to hit for a flag within three years before their run is no longer a factor due to mental fatigue. He said that one day they will wake up and a certain muscle will be sore - not tight, just sore from running - and they just won't be able to go again.

Burgess believes they can push past that because of his experiences in soccer.

 

[BrockBlitz]

So just to explain a couple things previously mentioned:

All world class sports scientists are pushing the boundaries and their methods are not rooted in science exactly. This is because we move forward faster than peer reviewed papers become published. It's equal parts science and art. It's not exact and you walk a bit of a tight rope between too much and not enough. It's just the way it is of you want to be the best.

I think we are too dedicated towards soccer with our background. Both Burgo and Macca are soccer guys. I think we need to be stronger and more powerful - but hey I'm a PT, not listed in the top 100 sports scientists in the world.

 

[OneGreatClub]

I think Burgo and Ken misjudged the effect the decreased rotations would have and their game plan has not been as effective as they had planned. I am fairly sure I heard him allude to this in an interview earlier in the year. We were one of the few clubs who used the lower rotation numbers in the nab games. It hasn't seemed to have benefited us.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

Interesting how critical people were about Poulos and the soft tissue injuries that mounted earlier in his tenure but it appeared to me he started getting it right in his last year or so.. Burton may well be very good at his job but I reckon he's riding in off that plus been lucky with the injury gods.

Hopefully Burgess just needs to tweak a few things and maybe get some new people with new ideas around him.

 

[Lagooner]

The average distance a soccer player runs is 12 km per game in 90 minutes without the aid of rotations and a rest period at half time. The average for an AFL player is also 12km over 120 minutes, with breaks between quarters and the benefit of rotations.

Burgess said the workload in games is second to none, so he's not flogging them on the track during the season. However, they are meant to be getting their conditioning in games and not standing around being stagnant...when the GPS data says that they are running harder in training than on game day, it's a mental failing of the players. They absolutely have a mental block in their minds that they have been over trained. Dermott Brereton said it best last year - Port needs to hit for a flag within three years before their run is no longer a factor due to mental fatigue. He said that one day they will wake up and a certain muscle will be sore - not tight, just sore from running - and they just won't be able to go again.

Burgess believes they can push past that because of his experiences in soccer.

Yep.

Just another way that we've been able to beat ourselves before the ball is bounced this year. Hinkley talks about non-negotiables, well these are mine.

Positivity. Determination. Resilience.

If players, both current and future, don't have these personal qualities then I don't want them within 700km of Alberton Oval (barring the West Lakes exclusion zone of course).

 

[badbeats]

Saying soccer is the same as AFL just based on distance is stupid.

 

[badbeats]

Interesting tid-bit from a report I just read...

Running long distance will affect the players’ performance in an opposite way, making them weak and slow instead of strong and fast as most people believe. Running long distance will stimulate the slow twitch muscle fibers, meaning that the body will adapt to the slow tempo being performed during long- distance running and, over time, the fast twitch muscle fibers will "drown," which will make the players slower and weaker.

 

[LFC2010]

From an article dated Feb 2014:

View attachment 277195

I defy anyone to read the 'soccer players train up to twice as much' line and not have a physical reaction. With the "make preseason really hard so in-season is really easy" the icing on the cake.

If that doesn't scream overcooking, I don't know what does.

I've got an Idea, lets not have a pre season at all, and start training in January 4 weeks before the NAB Challenge starts.

 

[LeoMessi]

While I certainly agree that Burgo should also be looked out, I don't think fitness has been the issue for the form drop off these past 2 seasons.

Clearly, the biggest let down have been the poor skills and decision making with the ball. We don't work hard enough when we don't have the ball but that doesn't necessary mean we aren't fit. We play unaccountable footy when the ball is not in our hands. We still lay the 3rd most tackles in the competition.

I think overall, our game plan sucks really.

 

[Lagooner]

While I certainly agree that Burgo should also be looked out, I don't think fitness has been the issue for the form drop off these past 2 seasons.

Clearly, the biggest let down have been the poor skills and decision making with the ball. We don't work hard enough when we don't have the ball but that doesn't necessary mean we aren't fit. We play unaccountable footy when the ball is not in our hands. We still lay the 3rd most tackles in the competition.

I think overall, our game plan sucks really.

I agree but it certainly doesn't help things if the general player mindset is that they're cooked.

 

[Moo87]

I think if we're looking at our fitness department, we need to scrutinise a lot more than just Burgess.

We've had multiple new soft tissue injuries occurring during/after periods of rehab or after lay offs from suspension, not to mention the pinging of calves while going through a warm up.

We need to look at the whole department - our head of rehabilitation especially, physios, trainers etc. We're clearly not getting our rehab or even our warm up routines right at the moment.